[Article: McDermott Concerned about PSE Dysfunction]

1 minute ago, CommonCents said:

Why does it have to be anything more than an example of them not spending money where they planned on spending it? 

 

They are Billionares, the article is painting a picture of their financial concerns. It’s very much related. Joe and Susie were building a beautiful home, their business was doing really well, suddenly do to no fault of their own their business began to suffer. They halted the beautiful home and decided to stay where they were at til things improved. 

 

For us it’s a home, for Billionares it’s a super yacht 

 

Very well could be... I'm not here to argue.

[Article: McDermott Concerned about PSE Dysfunction]

11 minutes ago, chris heff said:

I don’t have an opinion on Tim Graham, however this line is telling, “Terry and Kim Pegula, meanwhile, have paused construction of their new superyacht in Amsterdam.” Is this pertinent? Seems to me it is not, he doesn’t go on to explain it he just throws it out there. Is he insinuating that they have financial problems? It could be that the optics of building a yacht while firing is not great, or maybe they just don’t like the design. The way that he did this is a passive aggressive shot. To me it is indicative of a an agenda.

 

Or, it might have more to do with the optics of asking the State and County to pony up $400M for a new stadium/renovation? Bad timing...

 

Pic of his current yacht - Top Five - which is for sale:

 

[Another Argument for Bills to Not Build a Billion $ Palace in B/Lo]

Why a combined Bills stadium-convention center isn't in the cards

 

Quote

When asked how county government could balance the costs of  both a Bills stadium and the convention center, Poloncarz replied, "We can do it."

 

WOW - ok - I guess the state of NY is rich and we can do it all.

[Another Argument for Bills to Not Build a Billion $ Palace in B/Lo]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Who is "they"?  The County has made clear they don't want to be footing a huge bill for a new stadium, so adding to their financial commitment/burden another few hundred million for an associated convention center that will be another financial loser makes zero sense.

 

Building another convention center would be dumb enough financially for the county all on it's own, so why would spending twice as much for both be a better decision?

 

There's no logic to any of this.  Spending a ton of taxpayer money poorly would be bad, but spending 2 tons would "be a lot more affordable".

 

Yikes.

The Buffalo Bills are bigger than Erie County. 
 

Mark is all butt hurt he doesn’t have a seat at the table.

 

The Pegula’s know what the county can bring to the table.

 

Exciting times for sure.

[Another Argument for Bills to Not Build a Billion $ Palace in B/Lo]

1 minute ago, RochesterRob said:

  I'm thinking more along the lines that somebody like the Erie County Exec or leading state senator or power broker regional congress person merely suggesting a dialog take place in terms of exploring what is possible.  Nobody is saying that the Pegula's should spout off without talking to a key player in such a move first.  Heck, the kickoff could come in terms of a column put out by a respected (there's a laugh) member of the area media.  

 

I think powers that be are talking behind the scenes but no body can do anything until the Pegula's make an announcement. Once the cat is out the bag look out - everyone will chime in.

Just now, I am the egg man said:

.....like County Exec Poloncarz did today with his near half billion ($441,000,000) hair brained convention center proposal. 

 

Yeah, the Pegula's just got another reason to be leery of this guy.

 

Today's news is nothing more than Poloncarzs' trying to force his way in on the stadium conversation. Unfortunately for Mark - he will likely be the last to the table regarding the stadium.

[Another Argument for Bills to Not Build a Billion $ Palace in B/Lo]

1 minute ago, RochesterRob said:

  Don't know much about either NYPA or the PBA but what kind of money are you talking about and why don't we see talk about this outside of this forum?

 

You think the Pegula's are going to announce anything that is half baked?

[Another Argument for Bills to Not Build a Billion $ Palace in B/Lo]

12 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  You talk about a billion dollars as though it was found change in your sofa.  The Pegula's probably could source a billion dollars rather readily over a few months but the NFL wants them to play the ransom game in terms if the public does not want to pay then the team will get moved at some point.  Give me a realistic public financing plan versus saying the Mayor of Buffalo, Erie County Executive, and the Governor of NY GOTTA pony up.

 

Pegula's SHOULD pay for most of the new stadium... 

 

With that said, look no further from the New York Power Authority - a literal cash cow in our backyard taking in a TON of money. They helped with the build out of Canal Side and they should help secure the future of the Buffalo Bills in our own backyard.

 

I would even advocate that the Public Bridge Authority should throw in some funds from that cash cow, too.

 

I also bet you will see other private developers (aka Delaware North who alluded they were conflicted buying the Bills but would be interested in a partnership with a new stadium.)

 

It's going to take a creative public-private investment to make a reno or new build work.

 

[Another Argument for Bills to Not Build a Billion $ Palace in B/Lo]

2 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  The peasants, yes.  The big spenders who are paying thousands per game not so much.  The NFL is trying to attract the big money and is not concerned about what the serfs might do.  

 

And the BIGGEST spenders are in Southern Ontario.  You spend a BILLION in downtown Buffalo to attract more corporate money - or you stay in Orchard Park and appease the table surfers and ketchup squirters.

[Another Argument for Bills to Not Build a Billion $ Palace in B/Lo]

1 minute ago, Lurker said:

Or be ignored.  

 

ya ok

[Another Argument for Bills to Not Build a Billion $ Palace in B/Lo]

9 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  I have a feeling that quite a number of the big spenders will come from outside of Buffalo so access will be important.  Not creating something that will be a turn off to the big money will be important.  OP is a known quantity as far as travel and accommodations go so I don't see much consumer resistance if a new stadium went there.  People here are talking up rail and buses like it will be widely accepted but having your vehicle no more than five minutes away by foot is the WNY that I have always known so that would be important in my mind.

 

People adapt.... and thankfully, typical Buffalo is dying off.

[Another Argument for Bills to Not Build a Billion $ Palace in B/Lo]

16 minutes ago, Gordio said:

 

 

I keep hearing how revenues will double with a new Stadium but how?  You think it is going be an easy sell for lower bowl tickets to be priced well over $200 in the new stadium.  That maybe the case for a year or two until the novelty wore off.  Like I said, I doubt people would be willing to pay double the price of a ticket just because we have a stadium downtown & I highly doubt corporations around here are going to be willing to pony up double the price for suites.  I just don't see it happening.  I think it is a really flawed way of thinking.  You need to know your market.   

 

You’re dreaming if you don’t think prices in a renovated stadium will go up substantially, too. 
 

 

[Another Argument for Bills to Not Build a Billion $ Palace in B/Lo]

And laughable - look what is in today's Buffalo News:

Study recommends new $441M convention center on Delaware Avenue

Link 

 

[Another Argument for Bills to Not Build a Billion $ Palace in B/Lo]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

No doubt it is.  Convention Centers are a Mayor's "go to" proposal when they need a signature project, promising all kinds of benefits for the locals from having a shiny new center.  The problem, besides the obvious fact that Buffalo already has one, is that the US is oversaturated with new convention space square footage with a fixed amount of large events that would fill such spaces. So it comes down to cities competing with other cities for these types of events.  There aren't enough events to go around and Buffalo will not be high on many lists.  In fact, Buffalo isn't in the US top 50 destinations for conventions.  There is no value so no point in building a new convention center. 

 

Proven waste of money.

Got it - convention centers are a waste of money.
 

So what’s your beef with a downtown stadium?

[Another Argument for Bills to Not Build a Billion $ Palace in B/Lo]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

There's no evidence that that is true, but you are free to believe it.

 

I'm sorry, I will just discount all the road games I have attended throughout the years and let you make up my mind.

 

Help me out here wise one - are we saving all the land in Buffalo for all these companies that are lining up to build in Buffalo?  

 

Do we not have blown out corners all throughout the central business district - sitting there as gravel parking lots - just waiting to be developed?

 

You think developing in area near the casino - is going to destroy our future and vitality of Buffalo?

 

Buffalo needs to build from the core out - we cannot keep sprawling our resources outside the city.  We need to capitalize on these opportunities - and not sit here in fear that we will no longer be able to bash our bodies into tables in OP.

 

 

[Another Argument for Bills to Not Build a Billion $ Palace in B/Lo]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

The convention center is not the stadium.  it is a separate building.  You have already concluded that Buffalo can't get both a stadium and convention center, so how would be "killing two birds with one stone"if the Bills new stadium had no associated convention center?

 

I don't care if they build a new convention center with a new stadium downtown or not - the benefits of putting the stadium downtown outweighs anything they do in OP.

[Another Argument for Bills to Not Build a Billion $ Palace in B/Lo]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Who doesn't like tailgating?  And what does that have to do with this conversation?

 

If you clicked on those events, you will see that very few of them is actually in the stadium, the rest are in the convention center.  Since you have eliminated the possibility of both an stadium and a convention center for Buffalo, then almost all of those events would not take place in the venue (stadium).

 

So I will ask you again--look at the barely filled schedules of ATT in Dallas and MetLife stadiums and you'll see that a stadium in Buffalo will hardly be used other than for Bills games. 

 

But let's forget all of that...the point of this thread is to discuss whether "the League" will "force" the Bills to build a new stadium.  So indeed, let us look at Lucas Oil Stadium.  New place, nice stadium.  Has all the appropriate amenities and luxuries.  Despite this, it would be 5 more years before the Colts revenue cracked the 300 million mark.  Average ticket price? $94.  Total team revenue?  $393 million.  All pretty much the same as the Bills.  Both at or near the NFL bottom.

 

So what do the Colts do at this point to get out of their perennial spot in the revenue basement?  ANd why would anyone think the outcome would be different in a smaller, less affluent town like Buffalo if they had a new stadium?

 

 

 

Maximizing tax dollar spend - killing two birds with one stone.

[Another Argument for Bills to Not Build a Billion $ Palace in B/Lo]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

No I'm saying pegula needs to foot 70% because that COULD REVITALIZE Buffalo because tax payers didn't foot the majority

 

It can be 500 million in OP or 1 billion downtown that is a drastic difference. 

 

As I've said REPEATEDLY.  I'm a die hard bills fan, I ONLY want them in Buffalo. My family has been season ticket holders for 2 generations and I spend thousands upon thousands upon thousands on our bills

 

My favorite season in Buffalo? Not summer or fall... bills season

 

If Pegula puts 75% up it can go anywhere he wants, it won't kill me at the end of the day

 

If taxpayers have to foot 75% there is a HUGE difference between a billion dollar stadium downtown and a 500-600k stadium in OP

 

If it's the latter OP makes sense

 

I can't imagine tax payers footing 75% of any related stadium related tab...

[Another Argument for Bills to Not Build a Billion $ Palace in B/Lo]

43 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I wasnt referring to you when I said that  I made Nothing up

 

Yes thats hypothetically true. But gentrification also pushes more people out of neighborhoods than it does help them

 

The rich people of Buffalo will buy up that property from the ones struggling

 

And I assume there will be state , county taxes and the more pegula spends the less taxpayers do. And again I've said numerous times that I only am speaking for the poor that I know exist

 

Deep poverty is making less than 10k a year which is hardly enough to live on. Of the households in the buffalo Niagara region almost 50% of the deep poverty is in the city of Buffalo

 

The 2015 upgrades cost Erie county tax payers 108 dollars per year per household.  They footed 100 of 130 million dollars.

 

If taxpayers pay 75% on a 700 million to 1 billion dollar stadium we will pay about 700-800 per year to foot it

 

Not crazy much for people not struggling but imagine having to foot 800 per year when you make 6k. I worry about people

 

So - the poor will pay the same whether the team builds all new in OP,  Buffalo or renovates.  So, what you are saying is - we shouldn't have a team at all?  

 

That's all I hear you saying...

[Another Argument for Bills to Not Build a Billion $ Palace in B/Lo]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Maybe you don't understand that Buffalo is one of the most impoverished places in the country

 

30% poverty Rate in the city and close to 50% child poverty rate. They are struggling bad. They don't need any more taxes or for cost of living to go up

 

People in the burbs and out of state want it downtown cus it's a new shiny thing..   people who are struggling in the city , the majority, don't want to become homeless

 

You , me and mostly everybody here is doing well... That's not the majority of the city

 

I'm just curious - how old are you and what do you do for a living?  You fail take a holistic approach to how this thing is going to get funded.

 

If you think City residents are going to get saddled paying for ALL of this - you're kidding yourself.  

 

Most of the public component will come from the State and the County - and we should also look to the NY Power Authority for funds, as well.

 

WE KNOW THE CITY ITSELF can take on this burden on its own; MOST CITIES CAN'T no matter how wealthy or poor the area is... You think Detroit residents paid exclusively for FORD Field or the new Red Wings arena?

 

smh

 

 

[Another Argument for Bills to Not Build a Billion $ Palace in B/Lo]

43 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Southern Ontario corporations refuse to buy the current suites because they aren't nice enough?

 

You clearly have not been keeping up:  I've already posted how little the biggest and most luxurious new stadiums are hardly "multi-use"--so can you be more specific as to what other uses the Buffalo stadium would be used for?  Do a bit of research, then come back with fresh ideas (i.e., no need to mention "NCAA Final 4s", etc.). 

 

Buffalo will never have the biggest and most luxurious - those regions that can support that don't need to be multi-use. But a region like WNY has to make the most of their tax dollars for luxuries such as Stadiums... Convention Centers, etc.  WNY will not get tax dollars for BOTH in our lifetime.

 

And regarding other successful multi use stadium convention centers - look no further than Lucas Oil Stadium and Convention Center. Their combined stadium has a TON of events planned - check them out here: https://www.icclos.com/upcoming-events/ or here

 

It's ok Mr WEO - we get it - you're a tailgating fan - not a BILLS fan.

 

[Another Argument for Bills to Not Build a Billion $ Palace in B/Lo]

11 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

If they start winning playoff games, they won't need Canadians to fill the seats....

 

What would happen the other 357 nights?

 

You don't get it - its not SEATS - it's SUITES and marketing dollars that the Pegula's want from the huge corporate presence in Southern Ontario.

 

And the other 357 nights? Buffalo needs a new convention center AND a new stadium - the area will NEVER get funding for BOTH in our lifetime.  So make the stadium multi-use.

 

Keep up bro

[Another Argument for Bills to Not Build a Billion $ Palace in B/Lo]

It’s so funny - you can easily tell who is a Bills fan or just a tailgating fan. The tailgating fans fail to see the big picture... 

 

Don’t get me wrong - I love tailgating but I love the Bills more. In order to keep up in the NFL - the Bills need to bring in more corporate revenue - and that revenue stream is Southern Ontario.

[Another Argument for Bills to Not Build a Billion $ Palace in B/Lo]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Got it. I was responding to the poster who was hinging the location on the importance of "Southern Ontario".

 

The Canadian impact on Buffalo economy is probably significant re: retail, but not affected by the Bills being in OP or anywhere different.

The idea is to try to recruit more Corporate money from Southern Ontario... make it easier for them to come - start winning - and they will. (Up and until TO gets a team; if ever)

[Another Argument for Bills to Not Build a Billion $ Palace in B/Lo]

8 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Absolutely. IIRC, Canadians represent 20% of the Bills’ customer base. That’s nothing to sneeze at. I wonder what kind of percentage they represent for Buffalo businesses overall. 

Check out the Walden Galleria or the Outlets  on any weekend in the 716...

[Another Argument for Bills to Not Build a Billion $ Palace in B/Lo]

10 minutes ago, T master said:

Part of the "Buffalo Bills Experience" is the tail gating it is nationally known by all NFL fans but especially to those fans of other teams that come to OP to see their respective teams play the Bills weather its those teams we play once a year at NEF or the teams that only come every so often to play in WNY .

 

I hope that if the Pegs decide to move the Bills field down town they take into consideration the tail gating aspect that is part of the Bills Experience .

 

I live in Nashville now & the stadium is down town the main drag is broadway which is honky tonk central, then there is the Country Music HOF, Bridgestone arena, Tootsies, & that is part of the Titans Experience .

 

If you put the Titans up north in Hendersonville all of that goes away, the "Titans Experience" is tied to all that down town brings ! I have not been to Buffalo but a couple of times in the past 10 yrs so i don't know what is down town but there needs to be something that you can tie to the Bills Experience besides the Anchor bar & chicken wings .

 

I know there's not a ton to do in OP but they have tail gating & how it's a huge party around the stadium come a couple of days before a big game, I hope where ever they decide to put the Bills down town or keep them in OP tailgating stays as big a part of the Bills Experience as it has been since they moved to this stadium !! 

Appreciate your perspective but I’d like Buffalo to be known for winning Super Bowls; not tailgating.