SectionC3
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Seems like this was sniffed out on Sunday morning. Great news bc means trust is likely satisfied with local indicative bids - otherwise wouldn't dismiss JBJ bid. My guess (Kirby and bandit, feel free to comment): at least one more bidder (BTG) will enter fray; if trust unsatisfied w finalist bids may seek to open door to another local bid through creative plan previously hinted at here. Once satisfied w final bids target AIP before first home reg season game to have raucous celebration of Ralph; deal to close at October mtgs and new owner introduced at October 12 game. Current machinations likely efforts to tease more money out of pegula bid.
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Any NDA written like that is unenforceable and just as bad as not having one at all.
I work in R&D environments and as such come across them all the time. Most are well written and fairly boilerplate.
And I can't speak for the trust and these alleged leaks, but any company worth anything enforces them to the limit of the law if they need to as their livelihood can hang in the balance.
If these leaks are real, and are against the NDA, expect significant legal action. If there is none, it probably means that the alleged leaks are either not against the terms of the NDA, or are nothing but fiction.
Doubtful on legal action. Why alienate bidders? Would deflate price. Also, based on subject statements, good luck proving damages.
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@fanalliance: BFA response to @BonJovi letter calling on him to enter into binding agreement waiving escape clause in #Bills lease. http://t.co/X2KFgesl4w
It's a nice letter, but they shouldn't stop at the escape clause. To waive that provision would be a nice show of good faith (or a brilliant ploy, depending on your perspective), but my concern with the bongiovanni group is post lease.
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Well said, and thanks for the rest of that post as well.
For my part, I have contended planet earth should be a Bon Jovi-free zone for 30 years, and I am glad the sentiment has finally caught on. Horrible tripe, that music.
You got it. Someone here said dont underestimate Russ's role, and I'll say a similar thing about Schumer. Schumer interest alone is a big threat to nfl. Notice gillibrand is uninvolved on issue, and prob wouldn't have the juice to do anything if she was in the mix. Cuomo key too on stadium end, but that doesn't matter if no local buyer or no local mandate.
Russ wants to remain. I do not suspect that either of the other 2 do. They do not work out of Orchard Park. They may very well continue working for the Wilson's (and both be walking out with a chunk of the sale). The point is that their future is tied to RW and Russ is tied to the Buffalo Bills. Does that make sense?
Absolutely. Totally agree w logic. Likely something in trust precluding future employment for trustees - just bc they wouldn't seem to want it for geograpghical or fiscal reasons doesn't mean something weird couldn't happen - think "Mary Owen, I will make you the queen of the bills and get your mug on espn all the time," and maybe she wants that. Anyhow, agree w you on unlikelihood of conflict, and will guess there is something in trust dealing w that problem.
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I think that they are probably going to be moving on. It's just a guess but they are obviously RW people before anything else. They will have no conflict by protecting his wishes and best interests. That is just speculation though.
Agree on protection of wishes. Almost certainly written into trust. But what about an "all thing being equal" situation - that is, tie or near thing bw two local groups - one who will give them something they want v one that won't. I guess where I struggle is that if Russ isn't a trustee bc of conflict w future employment they (Littman and Owen) seem to have similar problem.
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That "letter" was meant for someone elses eyes
Say a group of four ?
Last ditch effort by a desperate man
Stayin
We think alike!
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For one, he is the point of contact for perspective owners. He is the one sifting through what they are saying and relaying the information. He has a TON of influence on the trust. The only reason that he is not on that panel is because it is a little bit of a conflict of interest in that he would decide on a group that will retain him. Either way, I am pretty confident that he will remain. He has been very, very, very, very involved (probably more than anyone else).
One more q. How are Mary Owen and Littman not conflicted? Assuming they're trustees (I'm so assuming) I've wondered about the possibility of their interests in the sale. I'd really like to see how the trust is constructed - it's probably beautiful - but I've thought about the possibility of a bidder "working" those votes. I suppose the practical answer (maybe not for Littman, but whatever) is that they're beneficiaries and any gain from sale dwarfs their salary, or that as trustees they're precluded from working in or for org for a certain time after sale.
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They are a very, very, very, very, very long shot at this point. I do not think that anyone has been formally defined (no reason to as it may drive the price). I would guess that he is grasping at anything to try to stop the bleeding of that group.
Thanks. Makes perfect sense. Cutting JBJ, or any group, weakens competition and obv could push price down.
Any idea on timeline for this? Given reeds thing last night and the smoke around town I'm assuming the sale is close to done deal and the current state of affairs is posturing.
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I just a wanted to chime in and reiterate that the Bills will NOT be moving. That's all
Quick question if I may (and if you know and are willing to share): did JBJ group advance, not advance, or is question tbd? Wondering whether jury is out at last nights politicking and the letter addresses the tbd issue. Also would explain relaxation of rules to allow golisano in to create competition if JBJ is out or tbd (and in general, I guess, but not the point of my question).
I suppose terms of trust could support your "not moving" statement (assuming statement considers post-lease bills), but under that scenario it's hard to explain such a mealy mouthed bongiovanni letter. Either JBJ is more direct under that scenario (better pr this way), or no need for suspect letter in first place.
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Here's some pure conjecture (bullchit) for you. At the last minute two of the groups combine to make a final strong bid. It happened a few years ago with the sale of the Texas Rangers. The new group (Cuban was part I believe) didn't get the team, but the price was driven up. I'll say that the Trump & JBJ groups join forces to push Pegs & Golisano to up their price.
Trump trumpets that he forced a bad deal on the new owner and JBJ slinks away to plot his NFL expansion plan.
Creative and good thought. Any things possible. I question whether the trust would allow this to happen - NDA should have been so restrictive as to prevent collaboration amongst groups bc of the threat it drives down sale price.
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But that would go against NFL rules. The lead owner is the controlling owner, period.
What does lead owner mean? Beats me. The q was about the other two thirds of the to group overruling bongiovanni on a desire to stay in buffalo. Answer is that it depends on how their partnership is structured. Bongiovanni could have only 30% equity in team but still control team bc of partnership or share structure. Think of the raiders. Reports are that mark Davis only has 47% of raiders shares - probably a plurality - but he controls the team because of share classification.
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Been my thoughts on this all along. If JBJ owns 30%, he can easily be outvoted by a consensus of the minority partners, no?
Depends on the partnership agreement. If set up as an llc or something like that, would depend on the voting rights of the share (which would also be established by agreement of founders of the llc or like entity).
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I will add to the sentiments about Mr. Bongiovanni's letter this morning's buffalo news. It does not speak to Mr. Bongiovanni's intentions with respect the bills after the expiration of Bills current stadium lease, or during the 2020 calendar year, wherein the lease buyout is significantly lowered.
I have never been a fan of Mr. Bongiovanni's music, but I understand it to be quintessential 80s pop. I suspect that Mr. Bongiovanni's line about "risking it all" is borne of the same mindset that generated so many of the abhorrent sounds and empty lyrics that gave rise to the incredible wealth. Mr. Bongiovanni's letter insults our collective intelligence, but I'm glad that he is chosen to keep "talking" because it seems like he digs himself deeper every time he opens his mouth or puts pen to paper.
I'll also comment about McCarthys column in this morning's buffalo news. This column contains nothing new or insightful. None of the academics or observers referencing the column has anything to do with the sale, and their points are obviously speculative. I don't doubt that the trust and the NFL have a common interest in enhancing the sale price, and I can foresee a scenario in which there is tension between the NFL and the trust regarding the sale price. For example, should the trust accept something other than the highest bid with the goal of ensuring teams long-term stability in Buffalo, the NFL and its owners may attempt to scuttle the sale to the local bidder.
But, let's not forget that there is a significant political wildcard here that McCarthy has not mentioned. Sen. Schumer is keenly interested in ensuring it the teams long-term viability in Buffalo, and I doubt the NFL would want to twist the tail of that lion by approving a bid to a group (such as the bongiovanni group) that is not resolutely committed to the long-term future of the bills in Buffalo beyond 2020 and beyond the expiration of the current stadium lease. Schumer's power could threaten the NFL antitrust exemption, which in turn could threaten the NFL's national television contracts. Bear in mind that Schumer has chaired the Democratic Senate campaign committee, and as such he is incredibly well-connected in the Senate and could even be the next Senate majority leader. Even if the Senate changes hands in the next election cycle or two, national politics are cyclical there's a very good chance that under that scenario the Senate could revert to democratic control while Schumer is still in power. Should the NFL act against Schumer's wishes on this particular issue, I strongly suspect that he will be miles up the NFL's proverbial colon during the rest of his time in office. This is not a politician that the NFL or anyone else can simply have removed from office; he's too strong within his party to get in a primary, and too strong within the state to have any hope of defeating in a general election given the current political climate. On top of that, he is close with Hillary Clinton, and there's a very good chance, as we all know, that she could be the next president of United States. Let's not forget that the Clintons LOVE Buffalo.
In short, the political climate is such that if A strong, competitive local bid emerges, I do not believe that the NFL would reject that bid as the McCarthy article. Putting aside what would be the penny wise and pound foolish nature of that approach, I also doubt that Ralph's former business partners would put his estate in a bind of not being able to pay estate taxes to the extent the sale is not approved in October.
Finally, there is one more tangential political going to be made about the sale process. Astute observers may notice that Steve Casey recently left the mayors office in Buffalo. He now works for Scott congel, who as many of us know, is attempting to develop an area in West Seneca that could potentially house a new bill stadium. My personal view is that for variety of reasons this is a terrible site for a stadium. Putting that aside, the bonding for the project is something that would cripple the town of West Seneca's ability to fund capital improvement projects for the next few decades. Current town board members may feel that way, but there are only three of them. Given the small size of the West Seneca town board, my sense is that casey's duties with congel may include facilitating the election of two board members who would vote for the bonding necessary for Congel to proceed with this project. It's much easier to change the Constitution of a town board that it is to deseat a strong incumbent senator, and it's very possible that the not-too-distant future things could get pretty "real "in West Seneca politics on an issue that might involve work on the site of a future bills stadium.
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I don't know this for sure, just my educated opinion. Morgan Stanley (and perhaps the NFL owners) is a little frustrated by the lack of a bidding war. Trump is in it but he is not going much higher. The Toronto group can't. Pegula is the clear winner but perhaps didnt bid as high as most reports say he did. Morgan Stanley is lobbying the trust to convince Golisano to join in the bidding, saying that he would keep all of the senior management intact, and Pegula would keep most of them but not all.
Meanwhile, they let TG know that the Trust slightly prefers him to Pegula because of this and that if the bids are equal, TG will get the nod. All this does in reality is make Pegula pony up another 100-200m to get the team because he is not going to be outbid by Golisano unless TG does something stupid, which is unlikely.
All this is good for the trust, Morgan Stanley, the NFL, and TG. It's not quite so good for Pegula, but he is not going to realy lose money on it because if he pays 200m more it is likely to be worth 200m more. He just won't have as much cash to spend, which he doesn't at all need.
This. There is a potential angle to bring another local bidder into the mix that was mentioned awhile back, but I haven't seen or heard anything about it in months. Not even the connected people on this board have mentioned it, which makes me doubt that the team/trust was in the loop on it. If we hear of someone besides BTG / tp as a local bidder, it may be through that particular path. If that road gets traveled at this late date we'll know that those vested in a higher sale price are looking to drum up demand.
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Polian or kent hull. Probably polian. Heard him on gr
last night talking up reed. I was pretty young in 85 - not sure if Reed was a polian draftee, but the thought occurred to me that reeds enshrinement might help what is already a pretty strong case for polian.
As far as the post Super Bowl bills go, only moderately realistic shot is probably dareus and as a
longshot maybe a Kyle Williams if he plays at a high level for a few more years and we have playoff success during that time.
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Why can't Tannenbaum be lead? My understanding is that you can't own a another team in the same market that has an NFL team.
Hence, Jacobs can't own the Bills, because he owns the Bruins AND the NFL has the Patriots in the same market. Toronto doesn't have doesn't have an NFL team so they can still bid on the Bills.
Who says Jacobs couldn't do that?
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That actually seems to make some sense.
It very well could bc of potential liquidity problems with the TO group and the trust need to liquify in time to pay estate taxes.
Yesterday morning, before the fluctuating reports of the bid values, someone here mentioned the media manipulation that was possible and the Need of the trust and the nfl for the JBJ group to drive up the price. Everything we hear now is something someone wants us to hear - I can't imagine in something with stakes as high as this that more than a handful of people are privy to bids numbers - so any leak is more likely than not intentional.
In any event, as was said yesterday, this will happen fast (see: estate taxes, desire not to anger potentially generous pegula bidders, etc) but there is going to be at least one more "bad" day as the trust tries to drive up the price. It wouldn't surprise me if we see a BTG bid (not a bad thing) or a planted story about JBJ''s vast liquidity. If the bids really are low, or if JBJ can't cut it, it wouldn't shock me if there is a little creative but simple maneuvering to generate another local bid.
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Question for all.
If its known now that JBJ cant match TP’s bid, why would Gollisano still (possibly) submit a bid if there is already a leading bid by someone who will keep the team in Buffalo?
CBF
Because he wants the team. Good strategy to wait. See where everyone else is to minimize risk of bidding against yourself.
Please don't feed the kids ego, he already comes across as a total doucheknocker and he is likely reading this thread while patting himself on the back
Google Norman cass jr. There is no ego feeding here,
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Littman is the son inlaw. And, it's a new age. Every piece of data is scoured. Massares consistency reinforces my point. And, it's not just using some guy on twitter. That guy plus, say, a business first report, a buff news report and maybe something in the Toronto sun or info fed to Ed Kilgore from someone Kilgore has trusted in the past might just spook someone enough to up the bid.
Finally, who is to say the kid (Littman jr) isn't our version of Norman cass jr.? He might not even know he's being used.
One more thing. There are conflicting reports as to the JBJ bid - ie - about 1b or 1.2b. Who do you think leaked 1.2b? Someone with an interest in driving up the price.
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RW & Littman aren't related. Massare has been plugged in for a while but hasn't said anything differently from those in the loop. Ha ha, they are not using a guy on twitter with 1,000 followers to funnel out information. The kid is a passionate Bills fan who has some connections and has gotten some true information. He is a super fan not a PR machine.
Littman is the son inlaw. And, it's a new age. Every piece of data is scoured. Massares consistency reinforces my point. And, it's not just using some guy on twitter. That guy plus, say, a business first report, a buff news report and maybe something in the Toronto sun or info fed to Ed Kilgore from someone Kilgore has trusted in the past might just spook someone enough to up the bid.
Finally, who is to say the kid (Littman jr) isn't our version of Norman cass jr.? He might not even know he's being used.
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Bulldog had an interesting theory yestersday:
@Bulldogwgr: Optimistic thought for the morning. Assuming only 3 bids is accurate, others stayed away bc they can't compete w Pegula and know he'll win.
@Bulldogwgr: Bon Jovi group is running the race to carry favor w NFL for future consideration. They make for good leverage piece driving price up.
@Bulldogwgr: It's not bulletproof, as I don't know exactly how a team in Toronto that's not the Bills works for Buffalo from an attendance standpoint.
@Bulldogwgr: But I could see Goodell telling JBJ "sure, we'll consider you in the future. I just need you to do this one thing for me."
TNT
@Bulldogwgr: NFL has let the threat of LA work for them for years to drive stadium construction. They know all about leverage and perceived threats.
This is an obvious pint and one with which I completely agree. The trust NEEDS JBJ and trump to create demand, just as the NFL needs those bidders to inflate the price. I suspect this deal will get done VERY quickly now bc Pegula has seemingly offered offered the trust everything it could want - a great price in what I'm assuming is a cash bid that will allow the deal to close before the end of this tax year. Assuming the bid info is correct (and I'm skeptical of the accuracy of all of the reported bids), there is a serious game of poker going on. The trust can probably extort a little more from pegula through the JBJ threat, but it has to ask itself whether the potential gain is worth the risk of pegula reducing his bid.
What I also wonder is whether this massare guy has been groomed for this moment. As the theory goes, his source is littmans kid, who is Ralph's grandson. What if they've been feeding this guy all along to establish his credibility and now at the very end use him to reinforce the idea that the JBJ group increases its bid past pegulas 1.3b after e books are opened? Couple that leak with one to someone like to graham or Jim fink and the trust could easily create an incentive for pegula to move beyond 1.3B. I'd be stunned if we don't see that kind of story sometime soon, but I'll be equally stunned if pegula doesn't close the deal. Like I said it will happen fast., and probably for a "little" more than 1.3B.
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Stevie is gone. We can better spend his money elsewhere. I don't believe Byrd is worth $8m/year, but I'd rather pay him than Stevie.
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The article is not a good one, but I have to believe the next owner is going to be someone who isn't talking about buying the Bills right now. Fortunately for Buffalo there are a host of people who have the cash to make this happen either individually or as part of a consortium---Pegula, Golisano and the Jacobs family and Bob Rich spring to mind. Their company isn't publicly traded, but I have to think the Wegman family has the money for something like this, too. I have to imagine a new stadium is part of the equation for any prospective local buyer, and I wonder if we see the state government start to address this issue in the very near future.
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What has Goodwin done to prove he is better then TJ? We have seen a couple great plays from TJ negated by penalties. WR do not develop overnight and not everyone is going to be a Justin Blackmon or whatshisnameinCinci. Look at some of the top WR's over the last two drafts. Corderelle Patterson, anyone? What happened to letting players develop a few seasons? There are seldom flash in the pan WR's in this league. Of course we all know their names but for every one of those there are 2 more on that same team that are solid contributing WR's that did not bust out of the gate.
Graham is a good player who has some work to do but he is getting better. With Brad Smith on IR and Kelsay long gone we now sacrifice TJ as the whipping boy. "Tobey" J Graham. Hell, half this board thought Da'Rifk Rodgers was going to be our #3. He is not even in the league, to my knowledge.
Goodwin has demonstrated an ability to catch a football. Graham has not. Both can take the top off of a defense, but only one can locate and catch a ball thrown in his direction.
New sale of team thread
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
I suspect there is at least one local bidder besides BTG still in the wings if needed. No direct info, just an educated guess. Doubt we think or hear of this prospect unless trust and/or NFL needs him.