Risin
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Posts posted by Risin
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Who cares where he is at?
I'd take him over ANY young QB in the game right now.
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Guess what?
You just did the same exact thing you were accusing me of in your own damn post.
The JP critics ARE BILLS supporters are much as JP supporters are. Ask Holcomb's Arm if he'd, above all else, want to see the Bills have success, and he'd agree with that statement.You know the reason why we use those two terms? Because some people are overly pro-JP, and some people are overly anti-JP.
The only reason why I used it was to say that the JP "supporters" are over-enthusiastic about his early success, and the JP critics are overly negative about this season's games.
A more appropriate term would be JP-enthusiast, but I haven't really seen that term used at all on this board.
Speaking of being a enthusiast of a QB, catch Vince Young today?
Wow.
3 turnovers, less than 50% of passes completed.
In general, he looked pretty lost.
Thank god we didn't draft him, he looked like a bust out there. (it's easy to tell, even after 1 game, just ask deluca and JDG)
Also, the part of your post I bolded is pretty interesting.
Holcombs Arm might deny it now, but I'm pretty sure Ramius busted him during the offseason. The impression given was that HA would rather lose with Losman, then win with him.
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I do not pretend to be an expert but I have noticed two things about JP. First, he is trying to shrug off the ghost of Mularky. I noticed it last week when he ran in for the touchdown. It waqs Kellyesque in the sense that he put himself in harms way and only focused getting in the endzone. Second, today I saw him scramble out of a sure sack, and run. Mularky would have squashed this in a Miami second.
He does not need to be constantly scrutinized. He is developing and I see a glimmer of hope.
I think it's more then a glimmer of hope.
More like a spotlight.
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I hope not.
I'm not a Willis Ballwasher by any means, but the guy had NO holes today.
He ran on guts, and effort.
On top of that, for some odd reason, we insisted on running into the teeth of that defense.
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This is the problem right here. The Losman supporters ARE BILLS suppoters. He's the best QB on the roster right now.
It's the anti-Losman posters who are more interested in their OWN agenda than the team. Not that they aren't fans, but they care more about being right than the team's QB finding success.
Thank you.
That is the bottom line.
I back JP, not because I want him to do well, but because I want the Bills to do well.
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Only a Bledsoe apologist could call JP throwing a TD a mistake.
Also, JP has been our offense today, and played awesome.
He carried us.
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Wow.
Go figure, us supposed "Losman nuthuggers" might just know what we're talking about.
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ridiculous. all you need to see in the last 4 plays? i recall a game when jimbo tossed a horrible intereception against the dolphins---it was 2nd and goal, 3rd and goal, some'in like that. returned for a touchdown, 100 yards or so--in our house. one of the foremost attributes a qb can have is to toss the pick like that, chase the guy down to the extent he can, and then move on and forget it.
one of the telling moments of the jets game was jp scrambling for the touchdown, and spiking the ball the way men used to spike it before there was an emmy awarded for fancy end zone celebrations. he appeared frustrated and pissed off and should have been after being able to put the jets away early.
and since football remains a team game, give the guy credit for tossing a ball perfectly that price let slip off his fingers for 6.
and, for suggesting the unthinkable about marv as gm, you should be forced to wear a teal sweathshirt to the ralph and have a dolphin tattooed on your ass (they'd have to work around your thumb, of course).
Awesome post.
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Agreed ....... however the salient point of my post wasn't to debate the progress or non-progress of JP ............ or to second guess the coaching staff/front office.
I was just wondering what that magic line of demarcation was when a prospect goes from a prospect to a football player.
The only reason JP is even mentioned is to make it gemaine to our frame of mind .......... to make my post less controversal ........... let's say .........
little Joey Shablonic from WassaMatta U gets drafted by the Toad Lip Iowa Froglegs. The Froglegs cut there starting QB of last year and hand the job to Joey knowing they are in "rebuilding mode" ..... and Joey may as well get experiance this year.
NOW ......... keeping in mind ....... the Tampa Bay Bucks (and their fans) felt that Steve Young wasn't talented enough to play on their God awful team (not to mention a number of other QBs not as sucessfull, but who have none-the-less gone on to fruitfull careers with other teams). This also applies to other teams .... but I'm too darn lazy to dig up examples.
Also keeping in mind ........ sometimes Joey is going to look good on paper, but not play well ......... and other times deceptivley have piss poor "stats" but in all reality play a good game .......... knowing we will show promise some of the time ..... and falter others to really stink up the joint.
The question is .................... how many starts does Joey get before the knowledgable among us stop giving the excuse he is just gaining experiance.
To put this in a frame of reference ........... I have heard it normally takes a WR about two to three years before he reaches his potential.
I've also heard that a RB can be expected to "contribute" right out of college, however, it takes about a year of experiance before he is picking up blitz assignments etc.
According to Bill Walsh, you know if your QB is gonna be good or bad within 30 starts.
I don't have a link, I believe I heard it during a Ravens preseason game, it was supposedly a question Billick proposed to Walsh, in reference to Kyle Boller.
Hope that helps.
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I'm not J.P. bashing ....... so don't everyone jump up to give me a load of crapola .... I'm just wondering at what point is it politically correct for a team (and it's fans) to give up on a QB prospect??????
As pointed out, J. P. has only 11 starts ....... but ...... his record is something like 2-9 (if I remember correctly). In these 11 starts he has sometimes shown signs of a quality QB, but most times has looked pretty horrible. Even (as last week) when he puts up good statisical numbers they are not indicitive of his overall performance (sometimes his "numbers" aren't so good, but he had performed well).
I guess the nexus of my question lies with the Bucks ....... a good number of QBs were not "good enough" to play on that team when it was stinking out the NFL ...... however a good number of them went to other teams to varying levels of sucess ... Steve Young ..... Brad Johnson .... come immediatly to mind.
So your thoughts please ......... when does J. P. "go on the clock" where a self respecting fan can boo a bad outing without hearing the excuse "he has only (fill in the blank) starts".
JP has showed progress.
IMO, he plays until Dick, Marv and company tell him not to.
I'm sick of hearing about his record.
One more time for the thick headed, Jim Kelly was 4-12 in his first 16 games.
I think Alaska Darin eluded to it, thank god we kept him.
Also, thank god TBD wasn't around then, or some of us would have been arguing with JDG and Reichs Arm.
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Good luck AKC.
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It really is the same thing.
Each person has his own way of rating a player.
When I think of great, I think of Walter, Thurman, Barry, Priest, Marshall etc.
I'm just not ready to put Willis there yet.
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Let me add that while I don't blame JP for the fumble, he MUST learn to feel the pressure better (yes, I think this will come with time)
He had a great pocket to step up into....which he did start to do when the outside guys started getting close....but instead of taking off (there was a HUGE hole he could have gone to) he did that stutter step with his armed cocked back getting ready to thow thing that he keeps doing. (Is that driving anyone else nuts besides me??)
Losman is showing a lot of improvements, but his inexperience really does shine through quite a bit. I really hate MM for screwing up his progress last year.
Yes, I agree with your second paragraph.
JP was raw coming out of college, so we expected him to take awhile.
As much as it pains me to say it, MM isn't fully to blame for JP not progressing quickly.
Some of that falls on JP too.
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You object now, but if he got out on the field, maybe he'd render your objections Nall and Void!
Nah, I don't have a good enough feel for Nall to know what kind of quarterback he'd turn out to be. I sense there's the potential for him to do something really good, but you'd probably have to go through a number of Nalls before one of them turned out to be Kurt Warner.
I agree Nall has the potential to be great. (Any young QB on an NFL roster has that "potential")
I just want to know why you don't think JP has that same potential, he has certainly proven more than Craig, and is younger to boot.
I never had a problem with your attitude, you're a good poster, and avoid personal attacks. (wish I could say the same for myself) I just don't understand your hard anti-JP stance, and the fact you'll risk your reputation bagging on the guy. Would it really kill you to just compliment the guy, without it being of the backhanded variety?
You usually backup your feelings with longwinded, and statistic laced posts. (even though they are usually slanted to fit your argument)
I admire someone that would put that much time into a post, but it all gets thrown out the window, because you come off as a hater.
I don't know if JP is the answer, but I'm gonna back the kid 100 percent this year. If he isn't the answer, I'm fairly confident Marv and Dick will replace him. (Nall anyone?)
Can't you just admit he is much better then last season?
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I view your post, and now I see you're pimping Nall?!?!?
LMFAO, I should have learned my lesson.
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You have to look at the whole picture. Its who he is working with. Put Willis behind the line of KC, or Denver, or even St. Louis and he does A TON better. Its not his fault that his line sucks. Think about it. Stats dont tell everything. There is a reason why Willis McGahee is pretty much the only person on offense that other teams fear. Its not because he is a so-so player. Its because he is a VERY GOOD player stuck behind a bad line. JMO
So we agree.
Why are we arguing?
I agree Willis is a VERY GOOD player, I said he wasn't great. (yet)
If you read the end of my post, I think he has the potential to be a superstar.
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Faustus, I think most people are pissed about the block, because this is becoming a habit.
It has happened 3 times, that I can remember, since preseason.
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Tell me your not serious ... my head is hurting from the ammount of ... 'odd' ... posts today. He is not a star in this league? He is not a great player yet? Well tell me. What is it going to take for him to be? Was Tiki Barber not a star because he fumbled? Was Terrel Owens not a star because he talked to much? Was Jim Kelly not a star because he lost Super Bowls? Willis ranks #1 in the NFL in total yards, and yards per game, and he is on pace for nearly 1700 yards ... and yet you say he is not a great back. I am flabbergasted.
How is he a star?
He has had seasons of:
1128 yds
1247 yds
and 311 yds so far. (i don't care what he's on pace for, he's had 1 monster game)
He has averaged:
4.0 ypc (a star?)
3.8 ypc (a great player?)
and 4.4 (so far)
He has had receiving totals of:
169 yds
178 yds
and 33 yds (so far)
I'm sorry, I must've missed where those stats equal greatness.
Is Steven Jackson a star?
673 yds 5.0 ypc
1046 yds 4.1 ypc
286 yds 4.2 ypc
Receiving:
189yds
320 yds
99 yds. (so far)
To me, they are pretty comparable players at this stage, yet nobody considers Steven Jackson a star. I bet you most here would pick Willis over Steven, even though Steven is a more versatile back.
I don't know what Willis has done to be labled a star in this league, but please enlighten me.
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the heart of this team
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Baptism by fire, for a very young team.
If we make the playoffs, we'll be the most battle tested team, that is for sure.
I'd rather have a good season with this schedule, then a great season with a weak schedule.
Come playoff time, the first scenario will have me feeling confident.
In saying all that, I'll be happy with 8-8 and continued progression from our young players and staff.