SilverNRed

I only point out that they are different in that I think they can be topped without necessarily being breached. I think that's what they initially thought had happened in the hours after the storm had passed. Also, I think the levees were designed to withstand a category 3 storm (which Katrina was) but still failed which makes me wonder about their design and maintainence. And you're right that I wouldn't want to be there if they're being breached *or* topped. Hence the mandatory evacuation. In any event, the point still stands that there is a ton of Katrina information to consider before trying to pin blame on one or two people.

Topping can lead to breaching but they aren't the same thing. There wasn't anticipation that the levees would simply crumble around the city, especially after it initially appeared that the city and its levees had weathered the storm and were through the worst of it unscathed. Maintainence may be a better culprit for their failure as there is some speculation that development too near the levees compromised their strength.

Here's more -- Link So the supposed "smoking gun" is Bush being warned about the possibility that the levees would be "topped." Unfortunately, "topped" and "breached" are not the same thing (despite the fact that that is what the author of the article wants you to believe). The levees were never topped, they were breached and that wasn't anticipated.

Yes, it's all "message coordination" orchestrated by Limbaugh and the other puppet masters. You've done an amazing job proving that with your random Google links. No kidding. I didn't click on the link. You providing some random clip of Sean Hannity proves nothing. You cherry picked one sentence of mine, found a similar Sean Hannity quote, and are now trying to pretend that means anything. It's pathetic you thought you were accomplishing anything there. The RNC website will have something factually correct every now and then just like the DNC website will. That doesn't prove it was my "source" for what I wrote because all you need are two working brain cells to know what Obama said was stupid (not a link). Not to mention you can't "paraphrase" what you've never read. Again, you continue to ignore the overall success of the response to just keep repeating the same incomplete information you want to list over and over. The consensus on Katrina in the first 24 hours after it happened was that we had been lucky (it was not as powerful a hurricane as initially feared when it hit) and the concern that the levees would be topped proved unfounded. All hell broke loose later after the levees were breached due to a design flaw. That's the type of information you trim right out to help your "Bush was on vacation and did nothing during Katrina!" narrative. But, again, good job with all the Googling. I'm sure you're only 1 or 2 posts away from proving that everything I've ever written on this board is just a paraphrase of what Hannity, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, etc. have said/written. Yeah, either that or this is the most sad and desparate tactic I've ever seen someone attempt to use to win an argument on this board.

This is seriously what you get from reading the board?

Thank you for providing links that I've never read and accusing me of stealing those ideas. Edwards' ridiculous history as a trial lawyer and his vapid "Two Americas" populist nonsense are well-documented. I drew my conclusions from what I know about him. And if you search the board (you know how to do that right?), you'll see I haven't said a whole lot about him over the last 4 years. But good job Googling people who may have had similar opinions. That proves a ton. I've never read anything Sean Hannity has ever written. But good job digging that up. I also didn't make any "excuse" for McCain's infidelity. I said it was my least favorite part of his history. I also said it was trashy to try to cash in politically on his marriage falling apart (and call his ex-wife "mangled" in the process) 30 years later to score political points. Maybe you never read this or maybe you just didn't understand what you were reading. Nothing would surprise me. Lastly, I said I'm not shocked his marriage didn't survive what he and his wife both went through. I stand by that. Obama being wrong about tire inflation being equal to "all the oil they're talking about drilling" is still a fact no matter where you link it from. That's not a talking point. It's just reality. Sorry your favorite candidate said something really stupid. But nice job bringing it up again. Where is your proof that Bush "didn't have a clue what was going on in New Orleans"? Bush (not surpisingly) didn't understand how the media would portray the event (which most likely explains your supposed "smoking gun" that he had to be shown CNN's coverage), but there's no evidence that he wasn't monitoring the situation. As the link on page 1 of the thread states, the government failures were more perception than reality. What I posted was: You think that happens with the POTUS being completely out of the loop and/or "on vacation"? So basically you still don't know what you're talking about, but now your proof that I'm wrong is that you were able to successfully Google other web articles that say similar (but not the same) things? How very impressive.

Yes. You've painted an extremely one-sided version of the Katrina response and never responded to the debunked Katrina myths link on page 1. You got embarassed a few pages back when you got tangled up trying to define leadership given Bush and Rumsfeld's actions on 9/11. And you've never given up trying to convince the rest of the board that there is such a thing as the President of the United States being "on vacation." You've managed to fill 10 pages repeating the same oversimplified points that have been refuted a few times over. And now you're even trying to pretend that anyone here has ever said that the Democrats are the only party with talking points. Keep at it.

A "talking point" is basically where you oversimplify a complex situation, purposely leave out information, or flat out lie as part of a concise little slogan that you can repeat over and over to score political points. Basically what you tried to do with the Katrina response and Bush on 9/11 in this thread before you were swatted down by the grown-ups, and what you continue to do with "Bush is on vacation all the time!" I would say a "narrow, idiotic worldview" would be one that may be expressed entirely in talking points. Also, like what you've done in this thread for 10 pages now.

Let me know next time I'm "parroting party lines" and we can talk about it. Amazing that you're equating criticism of the Democrats with "Republican shill" after we just spent 3 pages trying to explain to JK that calling DNC talking points BS isn't the same thing as being "pro-Bush." And, ironically, you're doing this to prove how smart you are.

Meaning now you understand you were off-base whining about "pro-Bush" posters when really everyone else in the thread was just pointing out how ignorant you are? Way to go.

Excellent summary of a 10 page thread. The debate isn't pro-Bush versus anti-Bush, it's informed versus ignorant.

Oh, except for where you did right here: But thanks for admitting one of your flaws below: I'll try not to be offended that you have zero ability to read the posts on this board, understand them, or even keep track of who wrote what. Based on what you wrote above, it's clear you don't even understand what you're writing.

As idiotic as his rants are, I do envy him on some level. If I shaved off about half my IQ points, I wouldn't have to worry about how complex the world is and could just understand everything through bumper sticker logic.

No, misrepresenting what actually happened makes for two "retarded liberal talking points". The Katrina thing ended quickly when confronted with actual facts on page 1 of the thread and the 9/11 storybook thing had no effect on the events of that day. Bush spending the next few minutes with those kids while the Secret Service got prepped for his departure wasn't the best response, but there was no response at that moment that would have changed anything that morning. It's just another shallow talking point for people like you to whine about.

Well, seeing as how you're the one who said I made all sorts of comments about Edwards, maybe you should be the one to find the actual posts where that happened. I don't really see how I should be the one digging up information (that doesn't exist) to support your ignorant posts.

Meaning you did find posts where I gave my thoughts on why Edwards did it and what his marriage was like. Or how he feels about his wife. Cool, then go ahead and share with the rest of the class.

The parade of retarded liberal talking points in this thread is fairly impressive. Are the 9/11 and Katrina whines are making a comeback?

Hey, JK, did you ever find the long lost posts of mine about Edwards? I wouldn't want to think you were completely talking out of your ass or anything. Just wondering. Thanks.

Right, thank you for clarifying that you think that the President of the United States only has a "fax machine and a cell phone" at his disposal when he's not in Washington, D.C. Congratulations on your spectacular ignorance. That hole you're in? Keep digging, you'll be out in no time.

He's never on vacation. He's on call every single day of the year, 24 hours a day. That's what being President is. And, yes, he can be equally in charge of the world's lone superpower from his house or from the White House. It's 2008. Go ahead and keep hammering this point. It's silly and pointless, and naturally provides a nice reminder of how well you understand the real world.

....which don't exist.

Weren't they also overseas at the time?

Bush being on vacation this week is pretty bad. Especially when you consider how bad things got last month when he called in sick and was later seen at a Washington Nationals baseball game later in the afternoon that same day! And it's a little fishy that President Bush always has a "dentist appointment" the day the new Madden comes out.

#6 - It's a poll. #7 - It's a poll. #8 - It's a poll.

Debunking the Myths of Hurricane Katrina by Popular Mechanics Anyone who wants an accurate understanding of Hurricane Katrina should read the whole thing. Actually, even the people who clearly don't want to understand what really happened should read it.