Beck Water
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Posts posted by Beck Water
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5 minutes ago, sherpa said:
Mid point last season I knew there were two players who would not be on the Sep 2022 team.
Star Lotulelei and Cole Beasley.
Prescient!
I will admit it, I mistakenly thought his contract would give Lotulelei another season, especially once the Bills moved on from Harrison Phillips. I didn't think they would move on from both of their 1TDTs at once.
It did not make me sad to be wrong there.
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7 minutes ago, julian said:
Lol yes, I guess I better take that back. I was giving credit to the vast majority of intelligent posters who would assume I was making a point and not being literal.
🙄
7 minutes ago, julian said:He’s gone because his production is replaceable, the Bills weren’t taking some moral high ground(Covid) when showing him the door. He brought media distraction from his public comments and his age/production were no longer in his favour. That combination sealed his fate.
I agree that the Bills released Beasley because age/production were no longer enough in his favor to overcome any distraction he brought, not because of some moral stance or over his Covid views.
My point is that in his first 2 seasons with the Bills and especially 2020, Beasley wasn't JAG in the slot, which is what your post implied.
Give the man his propers, in 2020 he was one of the best slots in the league and even in 2021 still better than JAG
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4 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:
He also didn’t have to crusade on Twitter spreading misinformation, arguing with fans + media, even taking shots at Bills fans. He could’ve just been like any number of other Bills players who didn’t get vaccinated but just kept it to themselves and followed the NFL protocols and were not a distraction about it in any way. But he was unable to do that.
Gabe Davis wasn't vaccinated. Spencer Brown. Star Lotulelei. possibly AJ Klein. One more, not sure who.
Anyone able to "stand and deliver" any media hate they received for this?
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Why? They exercised their right of choice, followed the NFL protocols, and went on about their business.
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3 hours ago, TBBills said:
He got old.
"Things They do look awful Cold..." -some rock band
27 minutes ago, julian said:If he wasn’t easily replaced he’d still be a Bill, they showed him the door because they believe they can pull a dude outta the stands and Josh would get him 50 for 500 outta the slot
Bad take
1) The Bills don't even believe they can replace Beasley with a legit NFL WR or draftable rookie and achieve that
2) Beasley's average contributions as a Bill were 812 yds/ season and 77 receptions/season, which is significantly more than your 500/50
3) It's not the receiving yards from the slot, it's those crucial 1st downs and YAC. Bills thought Beasley could pull in 50 1st downs this season, he'd be here.
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9 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:
I haven't seen him, so I really don't know, but the problem is what does Hodgins add? If it turns out that he's an excellent ST guy, well, that would help his cause a lot. But if you take a three-year look at the roster, Diggs, Davis, and Shakir will still be on the roster, and Hodgins probably isn't taking snaps from any of those three. At that point, Hodgins will be in his sixth season, and by then the Bills will have a better choice to replace Diggs, if Diggs starts to slide.
So, in the short term, what is he? Depth for Diggs-Davis-McKenzie-Crowder-Shakir? I think he has stand out for the next three weeks to win that job, either receiving or special teams, and ideally both.
I also think Shakir will be the punt returner by the end of the season. He's shown very good hands, and he seems smart and dependable. I think McKenzie will start the season returning, and Shakir will continue to jugs work and practice in the backup KR role. If McKenzie falters, Shakier will be the guy.
I put this out there: I'm not 100% persuaded Crowder makes the team
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55 minutes ago, stevewin said:
The D is pissed they were told to lay down for the red and blue practice 😛
I don't think they were "told to lay down", but I think the player participation was managed to "put their second best foot forward"
I had the same thought that the D read the press clippings and it "put a little ***** in their grits"
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7 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:
I’ve heard (second hand, but from a “clean” filter) from someone on the flight home that it was a circus. Wildly emotional. Guys punching out seats, screaming at coaches, offense screaming at defense, guys crying. Culture and credibility are going to be issues this year, no doubt about it. But I think the Beasley nonsense has a far different origin and backstory than does the 13 second debacle.
I think it would be a surprise if the plane ride home immediately after the game WEREN'T like that. Isaiah McKenzie had a "cry from the heart" in a post-season podcast with Ty Dunne about how he got on the plane and told the defense "I'm going home to pack, and this is your fault" "Best defense in the league and you can't stop them for 13 seconds?" Guys thought that game was won, and we were going to the AFCCG.
I also think that McDermott's "Omerta" looks a little different in the light of a bunch of moves that were made off-season on D and Levi Wallace's words on the subject. I point to Lorenzo Alexander's comments "The players for sure know what happened. The players will handle it."
That's not to say that you're wrong about the vets in the organization keeping a close eye on coaching and leadership.
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1 hour ago, TBBills said:
It's mating season for tents. Nice little national geographic clip
Someone whose job it was to stake and weight that thing properly is handing in his or her Bills ID and getting their job hunt on right now.
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2 hours ago, BTB said:
Shove a mic in front of any players face often enough, and they are bound to say something that makes no sense, sooner rather than later.
Um.....no one is shoving a mic in Beasley's face. He is voluntarily sharing his stuff on Twitter.
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6 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:
Seems like Beasely is taking a direct shot at McD/Beane and indicating things aren't as rosy as the media and fanbase may perceive them. Don't understand all the hate thrown his way either especially since he's the one that asked to be traded/released.
If I look up "Credulous" in the dictionary, seems likely I'd find your picture in the definition.
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2 hours ago, TBBills said:
Why is he not on the Giants then? They need WRs.
Good question. Remember that Joe Schoen, Giants GM, was hired first and brought Daboll in. No question in my mind that it's Schoen's show, personnel-wise.
Answer is speculation:
1) Schoen was "in" on the Bills end of season personnel evaluations. If I'm right cutting Beas was performance based, Schoen may agree.
2) Daboll is not the Giants OC. Mike Kafka didn't leave his role on a perennial playoff contender to be Daboll's Dingleberry. Kafka may not be installing the route concepts Beasley runs. Remember he came from a team where the TE was the "go to" guy.
3) The Giants needed to "get right" on the cap. They have two WR, Kenny Golladay and Sterling Shepard, in their top-10 cap hits. It's possible that they made Bease a vet-minimum type offer, but Beasley (his tweet supports this) isn't interested to play for that.
4) The Buck stops with Daboll now. He has to take a hard look at what will build the culture he wants. "I'll only follow the rules I agree with"?
5) Beasley may feel Pigs will Fly and Hell will Freeze before I play for any (nominally) NY team.
28 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:Forgive me if I’m wrong on this but I thought you said that one of the major changes was that the offensive coordinator was no longer here if that was the case why didn’t he just follow him to New York
You said quote "Why is he playing for the Giants then". He isn't.
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Just now, John from Riverside said:
Then why is he playing for the Giants
Huh? Why is who playing for the Giant?
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5 minutes ago, HOUSE said:
Yes but he played, that was my point
Actually, it's an argument against your point.
When a starting player is injured, of course he still wants to play, these guys are all Alpha Competitors.
But he's gonna be less effective, and there's a certain compact where a guy has to be honest with himself, the coaches, and trainers, and let his backup have a shot (sorry! sorry!) if he's gonna be less effective than the Next Man Up.
When Beasley was forced to sit by factors outside the team's control, McKenzie sure made it look to everyone watching as though maybe last year's Week 16 MIA game was not a one-off, and perhaps Beasley had been skating the wrong side of that "am I more effective than the Next Man Up?" line for a while.
To the team? It's notable that in the CAR game before 2nd NWE, McKenzie's snaps doubled and increased by about the same % Beasley's snaps dropped, and that difference was maintained (~15% more snaps for McKenzie, ~15% less for Beasley) in the remaining regular season games and playoffs.
I agree with whoever made the point that McKenzie has yet to show he can handle the bumps and bangs of a larger role on offense week-in and week-out, all season. We don't yet know that he can't play injured, but we don't yet know that he can, either.
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13 minutes ago, JAMIEBUF12 said:
Sad that Cole stood up for what he believed in.Did everything that was asked.And players like Aaron Rodgers lied about getting shots,did team interviews and didn’t even get a slap on the wrist.At least Cole manned up and stood by his convictions.
Oh, Rodgers got a slap on the wrist, but that's all. And I agree with you, Beasley as a person looked better to me after Rodgers stuff came out.
That's why I say it's primarily about production and role on the team. Rodgers is still a Star of Stars, an elite Franchise QB and a Game Changer. GB hopes to ride him into contention. Beasley never had that significant a role on the team, and the role he had was clearly shrinking for multiple reasons.
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35 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:
I should have said more in that post. No not just because of tweets but also because he wasn’t following protocols. Yes he lost a step and that probably played into it as well.The not following protocols/getting fined repeatedly by the NFL didn't play well inside OBD, I agree. But it didn't cost Beasley his Bills "hat" in 2021 because he had a track record of producing on the field. Sounds like we agree that both were factors, and what % was assigned to each is between Beane and his walls.
I point to the case of Smokey John Brown as evidence saying production matters most to Beane.
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15 minutes ago, inkman said:
Yeah I feel like the the change was that the Bills wanted someone who didn’t fall immediately after catching the football as they ranked near the bottom of the league in YAC.
Right. The reason Beasley fell immediately instead of fighting for yards was part changes in how teams covered the Bills (flooding the middle of the field with DBs because they weren't worried a bit about defending the run), and part physical changes for Beasley (playing with cracked ribs, being a step slower and thus letting the defender close before he made the catch).
But the Cold Hard Football Fact is it meant the offense needed to evolve again, and Beasley didn't have a large enough role in the planned evolution to justify his $$ OR his nuisance factor.
All these tweets now are Beasley stumping to "change the narrative" around his departure and publicly lobby for a new offer. Except I doubt GMs are surfing the Twitters for talent.
4 minutes ago, Logic said:That said, if I'm not mistaken, the Bills offered to keep him at a reduced salary. In other words, while they weren't willing to continue to pay him top dollar, they WERE willing to continue to roster him.
I know of no information about that. What we know is Beasley talked to Beane before FA and asked for permission to seek a trade.
Spill the Tea if you got some.
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4 minutes ago, Logic said:
On the one hand, Beasley played through all sorts of injuries. This indicates a degree of selflessness.
On the other hand, leading up to and during seasons where the Bills had realistic Super Bowl aspirations, he became a huge distraction on social media and elsewhere and made everything all about HIM rather than about the team. Selfishness.
It kind of seems to me that if anyone in this situation changed, it was Cole.I agree that "if anyone changed it was Cole" but I disagree that he was such a huge distraction or that the distraction had any but a peripheral effect on the decision to move on.
Look at the Cold Hard Football Facts. 30 yr old John Brown (never controversial) had a huge drop in Y/G and 1st downs between 2020 and 2021. Y/R and Y/T fell slightly but significantly. His ability to stay healthy and bounce back from injury seemed less. Beane to Brown: "Thank you for your service, NEXT!" even if it left a "speed gap" on the team. Beane drafts and brings in some speedy guys, signs Sanders, and tells Daboll "here are your ingredients, Go Cook"
2021, 32 year old Beas shows a similar significant drop-off in key metrics and similar questions about injury/ability to bounce back. Meanwhile the Muscle Hamster makes plays when he gets his chance. Beane to Bease: "Thank you for your service, NEXT!"
Sure Beasley's tantrums about NFL rules applied to every player factored in, but anyone who doesn't think a repeat of his 2020 contribution in 2021 keeps Bease on the team regardless is IMO naive.
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20 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:
I feel like a lot of people are missing this.
Beasley was a MASSIVE outlet for Josh, and had a real knack for making huge conversions when the QB was in trouble.
You said it. Beasley was.
His Y/R plummeted from 11.8 to 8.5 and his 1st downs plummeted from 53 to 34. Same # receptions, 5 more targets, similar snap counts.
What changed? This wasn't caused by "The Twitters"
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4 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:
What changed is all the posts he made on twitter. Coaches didn’t like it. Just read the tweets in this thread. You can see. I could tell he was playing his last season by mid season.
Because of his tweets? Nah.
I think it's more because of what we saw on the field. Beas had pretty clearly lost some speed and quickness - maybe with the broken leg/stress fracture that he played on in 2020 playoffs he couldn't train as much in the off-season? Maybe it's just Father Time catching up to his ability to recover?
Then when he injured his ribs and kept playing, he pretty clearly lost another step. He just couldn't get downfield and get open quickly enough. We saw a huge change when Beasley was forced to sit by the NFL rules and McKenzie got his shot - er, sorry! sorry! I mean, opportunity to play.
And of course, it didn't help that defenses seem to have "solved" how to smother the option routes Beasley killed teams with in 2020. Beas got his shot (sorry! sorry! I mean, chance) at playing different WR posltions in 2019, and the team's evaluation of how that went, was to trade for Diggs and draft Gabe Davis.
Beane has consistently shown a quiet ruthless streak in moving on from players who contributed greatly to the team, when he assesses that they were physically and/or mentally on the downhill slide. John Brown didn't use the Twitters and had absolutely no controversy whatsoever around him, but Beane cut him after one season plagued by injury. Didn't offer him a chance to re-negotiate, just straight out "Thank you and Good Bye".
Some people questioned the move at the time, but when subsequently Brown did a 4-team tour of teams that really needed a WR that resulted in him playing a total of 4 games with 3 targets, it became clear that Beane's unsentimental "football first!" judgement of Brown's plummeting capabilities was correct.
And truthfully, if Beasley still "had it" on film to play at his 2019/2020 level, some other team would have signed him by now. There are enough teams that are wide receiver needy. Teams sign all kinds of low-lifes because of their football skills.
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6 minutes ago, Warcodered said:
The tweet that came between the two of those, that the second one replied to, is interesting:
The response from Beasley rings sincere, especially in view of earlier tweets Beasley made publicly "passing the torch" to the Muscle Hamster.
4 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:I don’t see how things changed. Same regime. Same core group of players. Same team first attitudes.
IMO the only thing that changed was Beasley going from team first to me first.
How can you miss Daboll leaving for the Giants as a major change?
😇 there's too much of him to miss readily.....🙄
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9 minutes ago, Gugny said:
What changed within the organization?
Big change: Daboll moved on to the Giants. Remember the loooove-fest between Daboll and Beasley where they were all raving about how Beasley would bring great play ideas to Daboll and Daboll would implement them? Daboll was consistently using Beasley in down-distance situations where other offenses utilize a TE IMO.
Thing is, in the absence of a credible run game, a number of teams seemed to have successfully figured out how to defend Beasley's option routes and the Mouse Davis/June Jones secondary route concepts Beasley brought in and the team executed so well in 2020.
Writing was on the wall: with Dorsey and some fresh ideas coming into the organization, roles and responsibilities along with some play concepts were gonna change
But Beasley writes as though "moving on" was his choice and his notion, and I don't think that was entirely how it went down
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6 minutes ago, Bangarang said:
No chance I’d put Josh out there behind a makeshift OL.This is coachspeak:
Translation of coachspeak:
Coach McDermott agrees with you.
5 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:If you cut haak does he get picked up by another team?
LOL Green Bay
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16 minutes ago, hemma said:
Well, lotsa guys will end up being cut, but I think they will keep Hodgins over Kumerow.
Youth will be served. Special teams will not crumble without Kumerow.
It won't crumble without Kumerow, but there's a numbers game - the lower guys on the roster totem pole pretty much MUST play ST or there aren't enough ST bodies to put on the field without risking the starters.
And last year, Kumerow came on as very good at ST. So unless Hodgins has started playing teams, his path to the 53 looks murky.
Anyone know what the practice squad roster rules will be this season?
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20 minutes ago, clayboy54 said:
Out of curiosity, who do you cut to make room for him?
I have the same question
Diggs
Davis
McKenzie
Shakir
barring injury all seem locks at this point
Crowder
Austin
Hodgins
Pau'u who has been making some noise reportedly
unless someone else has emerged, Kumerow probably makes it as the 5th or 6th WR for his ST chops
So we're likely looking at one spot between the 2nd group of 4, and it's likely that they keep an extra TE this year
Training Camp practice 8/8
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
I think it's possible. Of course I'm just going on our limited reports, but we don't seem to be hearing much buzz about Crowder.