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Beck Water

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    Gesicki on the trade block

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted · Edited by Beck Water

    1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said:

    I'd be incredibly surprised to see him moved.   I loved Hunter Long coming out of college, but he was only active for 7 games last year.  The guys behind Gesicki have a combined 80 career catches and 3 tds.   I dont know maybe they are trying to get Charlie Woerner from the 49ers but even that guy has only had 8 career catches.  Just seems really odd.

     

    Durham Smythe (TE who seems to be heading Mia's TE depth chart) has been on an upward trajectory the last two years.  When he does get targeted, he seems to haul it in - >80% catch and low drops.

     

    What he can do that Gesicki can't, is block

    Coach McD wakes up with GMFB

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted · Edited by Beck Water

    1 hour ago, Fleezoid said:

    Time to head over the Titans and Lions message boards. This should get entertaining. Some fans will lose their minds. 

     

    Let us know what you find

     

    1 minute ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

    I don't know, Campbell seem like he might fight dirty. 

     

    They both might fight dirty.  Keep in mind Vrabel was raised by the Hoodie...apple falls close to the tree

    Preseason week 3: Bills at Panthers 8/26 7pm (local or NFL+)

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    4 hours ago, Logic said:

    It seems like Hart is going to make this roster. I know, I know...I'm as surprised as the rest of you.

    He looks like a totally different player this year. His showing that he can play capably at guard is the key difference, in my opinion. 

    I also think that it's all but decided that Dorsey will be in the booth on Sundays. 

     

    Especially if Mancz, Brown, and Doyle are not 100% I think we can bet on it.  Whether or not it's true, based on preseason the Bills believe Hart can play both OT positions and G.  And that's the OL: 5 starters, Mancz Brown Doyle and Hart.

    • Like (+1) 1

    Preseason week 3: Bills at Panthers 8/26 7pm (local or NFL+)

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted · Edited by Beck Water

    2 hours ago, eball said:

    Thad Brown even coming around?

     

    Personally after all the years I've been through as a Bills fan, I don't think I've had nearly enough time of this to get spoiled.

    I'm not even sure I've gotten to "starting to turn" or "a little mold spot to wipe off growing on the dried salsa just under the lid"

     

    Give me 10 years and I'm sure I'll get there, though. 

    Ken Dorsey Tuesday presser

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

    Nah, Not worried and there arent enough cases of him getting hit to make me worry about it.

     

    "It's proven my memory is wrong, I'm not big enough to just admit it, and I have no effective counter arguments.  So I'll just reiterate "nothing to see here, Move Along"

     

    I agree, nothing to see here, so I'll move along

    • Like (+1) 1

    Ken Dorsey Tuesday presser

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted · Edited by Beck Water

    4 hours ago, In Summary said:

    Hot take:  Daboll was comfortable running Josh to help his (Daboll's) career.

     

    I hadn't thought of it that way, but you have a point

     

    3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

    The Bosa one was one I had in mind. Other than that, I aint worried, and even that was flukey. He takes equally or even more hits in the pocket. Maybe we shouldnt pass as much?

     

    Out of all the running Josh has done (a record setting amount, btw), yall were able to dig up 4-5 instances that worried you. Ok. Equally proves my point.

     

    Aint worried.

     

    DrDawkenstein: "I cant think of a single running instance where he took a big hit, or a bad hit, or even a hit that made me wince a little. Not one."

    (someone makes a cursory search, comes up with a concussion, a corkscrew tackle that looked like it coulda blown a knee, a knee to the face while sliding, and a foot injury that coulda been serious)

    DrDawkenstein: "You were only able to find 4 or 5 instances that worried you"

     

    Hello!  One instance, let alone 5, disproves "I can't think of a single running instance where he took a big hit". 

     

    Just acknowledge your memory was flawed, and there have been multiple hits that could have resulted in a multi-game absence. 

     

    Just how many potentially serious injury-causing hits do you think are needed to impact a season?

     

    Whoopity dooo, you're not worried, but many folks who are aware that RB have shorter careers because all the hits they take mount up, are worried.  And I believe one of those guys is our General Manager, who openly says he gets on Josh's case for taking hits.

    • Like (+1) 1

    Ken Dorsey Tuesday presser

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted · Edited by Beck Water

    1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

    Josh's worst injury as a Bill has been in the pocket.

     

    Unclear, although the alternate candidate wasn't a run, it was rolling left trying to extend a play vs the Raiders in 2020.  Josh didn't miss time for that shoulder sprain, but it was pretty clear he was affected for the next 4 games.  Completion percentage, pass yards, TD, passer rating...

     

    My guess is that the hit Josh took his rookie year that sat him down for four games was possibly something Josh today would have come back from sooner.  Partly the Bills used that as a reason to press "Pause" and say "Sit, Watch, and Learn, Rook"

    Franchise Tag questions for you "Invoke Obscure Rules" Gurus

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    So the suggestion came up in the Gesicki trade thread, that a trade partner for Gesicki could potentially negotiate a new contract as part of the trade deal.

     

    On the other hand, I rummaged around and refreshed my memory that the deadline for a team to sign a franchise tagged player to a new deal has disappeared in the rear view window:

    Quote

    NFL franchise tag deadline 2022  Date: Tuesday, March 8

    For the teams that tag players, the deadline for those clubs to sign those players to long-term contract extensions is July 15 at 4 p.m. ET. If a tagged player does not have an extension in place by that deadline, he will play out the season on the tag.

     

    So would a sign-and-trade deal work?  Does a new club that trades for the player get the chance to sign a tagged player to a new deal?  Or are they also locked in to play out the season on the tag?

     

    Anyone?  I'll hang up and listen.

    Gesicki on the trade block

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

    It also would not surprise me to see OJ Howard cut by the Bills on our way to the final 53.  What was once an exciting free agent signing to pair his athleticism with Josh Allen and this offense, is now seemingly having the worst camp of all the TE's and appears behind both Morris and Sweeney.  Bills save over $2M cutting him too, so Howard may have to really turn it on here and fast if he is going to survive final cut downs.

     

    One more time.  The Bills will save NOTHING if they cut Howard, because his $3.25M contract is fully guaranteed.  In fact, it will cost them $0.625M to cut him because he has a void year tacked on to his fully guaranteed 1 year contract

     

     

    • Like (+1) 1
    • Agree 1

    Gesicki on the trade block

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    10 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

    Asking a primarily receiving TE to block isn't going to work.  It would be almost like asking a DT to play OLB in a 3-4 defense....luckily this franchise has never done anything like that.

     

    Blocking is a skill that can be learned and improved, like most everything else.  But usually when a player is franchise tagged it's because he's seen as "Truth" at his position, an indispensable man - not because he has a fundamental gap in positional skills that will limit how you plan to use him. 

     

    It would be like franchise tagging a CB who has spent his career playing press man coverage, then expecting him to focus on learning to play off-ball.  Can he learn and improve, Sure.  But you're not getting the ROI on the franchise tag.

    • Like (+1) 1

    Gesicki on the trade block

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    12 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

    Makes sense to get rid of Howard. From the OP's attachment

    TE O.J. HOWARD, BUFFALO BILLS

    It was notable to see tight end Quintin Morris, not Howard, start in place of Dawson Knox in Buffalo's Week 2 preseason matchup, which Knox missed to be with his family after the tragic death of his younger brother.

    Next off the bench was Tommy Sweeney. Then Howard got reps. Morris played seven snaps in the first quarter, while Sweeney received three snaps and Howard was on the field for just one play in the opening quarter.

    It wasn’t ultimately all that shocking, however, since PFF was told by a source earlier in the week after Jalen Wydermyer was released that Buffalo believed Morris was one of their most improved players this offseason. That source believed Morris could push Howard, who was identified as a training camp “faller” for a piece earlier this month, off the roster.

    Morris, a 2021 undrafted free agent out of Bowling Green, boasts a 77.8 PFF grade through two preseason games. He has good size at 6-foot-2, 252 pounds and ran a 4.66-second 40-yard dash last spring. Sweeney has earned a 73.0 mark, while Howard has garnered a 59.6 grade and has played more preseason snaps than Morris and Sweeney.

    The Bills would save $2.25 million if they traded or released Howard.

     

     

    The Bills would save nothing if they released Howard because his contract is fully guaranteed.

    The trade partner would take on $2.25M of salary and per-game roster bonus, but then the salary of the player who replaces him must be accounted for.

    • Agree 1

    Gesicki on the trade block

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    10 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

     

    That's a fair point.  Gesicki is more like a 6'6" wide receiver.  He was seldom asked to block.

     

    But the Dolphins franchise-tagged him at the start of the new league year, almost exactly a month after hiring McDaniel as head coach.  So it's not like he had blocking chops on film that have evaporated in the meantime.

     

    He also was 2nd on the Dolphins in receiving yards to Waddle.

     

    If the Dolphins didn't want a 6'6" 247 lb wide receiver, why did they tag him?

     

    Article from the Miami Herald:

    https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article264716879.html

     

    Quote

    Long after Tua Tagovailoa and every other offensive starter for the Miami Dolphins checked out of the game for good Saturday, Mike Gesicki remained at his usual spot on the edges of the Dolphins’ offensive line. Gesicki was out there on the very first play of the game and until the very end of the second half, his 25 snaps standing in stark contrast to Tagovailoa’s 13 and Durham Smythe’s 10. On a day when most starters’ days were done after about a dozen snaps, Gesicki’s play count was more akin to a reserve fighting to prove himself and secure a roster spot. “I need it,” Gesicki said. “I need all the reps I can get.”

     

    Quote

    Gesicki finished the preseason tune-up with three catches for 27 yards, including a 16-yard catch in the second quarter. He also, however, had an ugly drop on third down to end the Dolphins’ opening drive and missed a block in the second quarter (....)

     

    Although Gesicki and McDaniel both pointed to the playcall as the primary reason for the safety, the blocking mishap highlighted an ongoing issue for Gesicki in this new-look offense. For most of his career, Gesicki has essentially been a slot receiver, seldom asked to block. (....)

     

    “It’s definitely a whole different offense, a whole different scheme. I’m learning a new position, honestly,” Gesicki said. “I played receiver last year, I played receiver the last three, four years. I’m playing tight end now. Any reps I can get live out there, blocking, putting my hands on another guy and going out there and working hard and blocking and honestly just working on my footwork, my hand placement, all that kind of stuff. Any reps I can get at that, I can use it.”

     

    If he can grasp his new role, Gesicki can once again be one of the most dangerous weapons in the NFL — even more dangerous than he was last year. For now, it creates an uneasy situation, though: By asking Gesicki to block more than he did last year, the Dolphins aren’t playing to his strengths.

     

    All this is to confirm what people here are saying, but if you want a multi-purpose TE, why on earth franchise tag (unless immediate tag-and-trade, which would likely have worked OK) a large-bodied WR who needs to learn how to play TE?

    • Like (+1) 1

    Gesicki on the trade block

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    9 minutes ago, NewEra said:

    They can do that and if they can’t trade him, they probably will do that at times….. but they aren’t going to change their offense because he can’t block.  Considering the deal he’ll want, there’s no way they’d want to spend big on a TE that doesn’t fit their needs.  Might as well get something for him and avoid any potential headache he may cause because he doesn’t fit 

     

    I think Gesicki is a fine player, but if he doesn't fit their needs, why TF did they franchise tag him?  Or, if they decided to franchise tag him, why didn't they "tag and trade" early in FA when teams had money and roster space, and could spend the off season teaching a new guy their playbook and working him in?

     

    I could be wrong, but I kind of think their trade market for a guy with a 1 yr, $10.9M fully guaranteed deal is gonna be a bit limited at this point.

    • Like (+1) 1

    Gesicki on the trade block

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted · Edited by Beck Water

    10 minutes ago, StHustle said:

    No way they’d trade him to us…but man imagine adding TE of his caliber!!

     

    I don't think he's a match for the skill set we expect of a TE.  We even expect our WR to block decently.  Davis blocks well.  Even the Muscle Hamster can lay a respectable block down.

     

    14 minutes ago, nucci said:

    don't want to sign him to a new deal

     

    Then why did they franchise tag him?

    Gesicki on the trade block

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

    My guess is that he can’t block.  The niner offense needs TEs that can block. 

     

    That's a fair point.  Gesicki is more like a 6'6" wide receiver.  He was seldom asked to block.

     

    But the Dolphins franchise-tagged him at the start of the new league year, almost exactly a month after hiring McDaniel as head coach.  So it's not like he had blocking chops on film that have evaporated in the meantime.

     

    He also was 2nd on the Dolphins in receiving yards to Waddle.

     

    If the Dolphins didn't want a 6'6" 247 lb wide receiver, why did they tag him?

    • Like (+1) 1
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