BeastMaster
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Posts posted by BeastMaster
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1 hour ago, NeverOutNick said:
He never said at pick 28 lol. But yes he did say he was glad he had a slow 40 so that they could get him. He said the same thing about Gabe when he came out when they got him in the 4th. We’ll never know where they had Coleman on their board but 2 things we do know:
1. They knew they could risk dropping down a couple time to get Coleman because other teams wouldn’t have him rated as high
2. There was no WR outside of the top 3 they had conviction on to trade up in the draft for.
Coleman had the best hands in this draft class so I’m happy to have him because we had too many dropped passes last year. Coleman should NOT be expected to be a plug and play #1 WR that can run the route tree and win off the line of scrimmage with his explosion. That’s not who he is. He’s got a great head on his shoulders though so who knows maybe he’ll get to that level with some hard work and good coaching. I see him being a Higgins type for us and I’m ok with that.
If you would’ve guaranteed me we could’ve had Rome Odunze at pick 9 for 28 and losing out on Bishop and Carter, sign me up all day every day. Odunze will be a top 10 WR in this league for the next decade sooner rather than later
That doesn't get you anywhere near the ninth pick, so you could sign up all day and all night for it and it would never come to fruition
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2 hours ago, Logic said:
I'm not gonna make a separate post on this topic, because everyone will get all up in arms and accuse me of making a LAMP, and it'll do more harm than good, but...
I'm genuinely curious: If trying as hard as possible to be objective and unbiased, where would each fan on this message board rank our WR corps compared to the rest of the league?
Maybe you could even give it two scores, one for where it appears to be now (on paper), and one for the potential of what you think it could become.
But either way, I'd really love to know that answer. Cutting away all of the rest of the discussion, I'm just curious where everyone would rank our WR unit. I genuinely want to know.I think this is part of the issue. It's like people are playing Madden and they are upset because our best WR is an 81 and most teams have a 88 or better.
The real question and possible problem will be is there a guy we can go to when we need a play? Is that guy even on the roster? Is there maybe more than one? I think Coleman was drafted to be able to win jump balls and make contested catches, but can someone else be counted on when we have to have a first down?
I won't debate whether most teams have a stronger WR group at the top, but what about all around depth? Do they have a mixture of size, speed, blocking, slot guys, etc?
There's also so many different factors like the coordinator, the system, the guy throwing the ball, the Oline, the RB's
I trust that these guys have a plan, and hopefully it's not a McDermott plan when it comes to the offense because he has no business on that side of the ball
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3 minutes ago, Logic said:
Yeah, I get it, Mup.
People aren't used to seeing ol' Logic be pessimistic and do anything other than toe the company line.
One of the big reasons that I have so often appeared optimistic and had a rosy outlook is that I have more often than not agreed with the way Brandon Beane has built this team. I continue to be a fan of his, and I think he's a great GM.
But it would be intellectually dishonest of me to not give voice to my displeasure when I think he's making missteps and not giving Josh Allen the best chance to succeed and, thus, not giving the Buffalo Bills the best chance to succeed.
Time will tell if I'm right or wrong, but you can trust that I'm always going to be honest about the way I view things. And this offseason, for the first time in a long time, I feel disappointed in the way Beane has chosen to go about things. I feel less optimistic right now than I did at this time last season, and that's not a nice feeling. Cringe if you must. I shall continue to speak my truth.I expect everyone to speak truthfully here, and if you are not, then I don't know what your purpose is here.
That being said, I appreciate your commentary and simply think you are just wrong on this one, but like everything...time will tell.
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3 minutes ago, SCBills said:
This is a very fair take.
Most fans of other teams would look at Coleman - Shakir - Samuel - MVS - Hollins and agree with you.
That can change when we see them on the field, in this offense, with Brady, with Allen. But as of today, that WR room doesn't scare anyone, and we - as Bills fans - are taking the best case scenario, which is that Brady is the real deal at play caller, Allen can elevate these guys, Kincaid is the #1 ala Kelce/Andrews and these WR's are all, at least, WR2/WR3 ability.
We have an interesting collection of talent on Offense. Allen is obviously elite. I think we likely have a Top 12 OL again. RB's and TE's are arguably Top 5 groups in the league. The WR room makes a lot of sense 1-5, but has no one, as of yet, that scares anyone.
I can't fault those who are optimistic and I also can't fault those who are pessimistic. The fact is, this WR room is a bottom tier group on paper.. and while KC/BAL rooms aren't world beaters, they have more proven talent and Tight Ends that have shown they can be the focal point of the passing game.
This post probably sums it up best.
The optimists will see what has been done and will envision it working out well. It likely won't be as great as they think, and there will be struggles along the way.
The same can be said about the skeptics/pessimists. They think they have a bottom of the league group and that the offense will suffer. This take is also not very likely given the offense is led by Josh Allen and a good Oline and good RB's
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3 minutes ago, Logic said:
I don't think that at all, nor did I state as much.
What depresses me about this group is that -- in my opinion -- they installed two fairly unimpressive guys as presumptive WR1 and WR2 (I was not a fan of Coleman as a prospect and I think Curtis Samuel is just fine, but no better than fine), then proceeded to sign only WR4-WR9 types who DON'T have a chance of overtaking the top guys. Like...that's the problem in a nutshell to me. The depth of the group is fine, but there's not much quality to it, particularly at the top.
To be honest, I actually think it would be a fairly high quality WR depth chart if a number one receiver was added to it. In other words, I think Coleman can be a good #2, Shakir a quality slot (which he'll be anyway), Samuel a great #4, etc. If it just had an alpha WR at the top, then I'd be fine with the rest of it. But it doesn't. It looks like a nice supporting cast for a #1 guy, but the Bills don't have a #1 guy.
At the end of the day, the WR group just looks subpar to me. I've run out of different ways to explain why that is, but it continues to be my feeling. I'm normally the most optimistic, rose colored glasses wearing Bills fan you'll ever meet, but I don't like the way they've gone about the WR position this offseason.
I think that anyone who is being fair and rational, if they're really being honest with themselves, would have to admit that this Bills WR group looks to be no better than, say, 25th in the league. I count about 5-7 teams that are similar or worse at WR, but that's it. Do you disagree? Do you think it looks any better than the 25th best group in the league?
To me, having a bottom third WR group is simply unacceptable when you have Josh Allen in his prime.The problem is that your basing it on not having an elite receiver out of the group.
Is that a bad thing? I'm not so sure it is. Diggs demanded the ball, and if he wasn't getting his targets, he was not happy about it. If you think that didn't play into Josh's mindset that he had to prioritize Diggs instead of run the offense as intended, smoke another one. Josh being able to just go through his reads and make the right play could lead to more improvement just on that alone. Also, we went through in previous threads here on the board where elite WR's have gotten their teams, and generally speaking they don't get them over the hump, yet you continue to pine for one...even though we already did that and that guy failed in the playoffs.
You also don't like Coleman, so that is affecting your outlook on the group. If he's Tee Higgins, this group is more than fine, and I actually think he can be Tee Higgins with some more ability underneath and a bigger route tree.
We lost Diggs and Davis, but we have added numerous guys that can play and produce. I'm not overly concerned
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10 minutes ago, Logic said:
At this point in the offseason and given where the Bills WR depth chart is/was....I like the signing of MVS.
The WR corps is still not where I'd like it to be, I'd still rather they had taken a WR in the 3rd and spent the MVS money on a free agent DT (rather than the other way around), and I still feel they didn't do enough on offense this offseason.
All of that being said, and with me having cried over spilt milk enough already...I think MVS will help this team. He has a skillset that this WR corps was lacking. As pointed out in a Tweet above, while he does struggle with drops at times, he also makes big catches in big moments. See: vs Bills, vs Ravens, vs 49ers in the playoffs this year.
I'm just irritated because it has constantly felt like we're a step (or two) behind the Chiefs lately, and this just continues that trend. Two years ago, they decided to get cheaper and younger, shipped off a highly paid WR1, and said "we'll get by on scraps and young guys". They drafted a WR in round two, signed a mid-tier WR and some bargain bin guys in FA, and proceeded to have one of their worst offensive outputs of the Mahomes era. They then had to spend the next two offseasons signing and drafting MORE wide receivers because they realized that, even with Mahomes at QB and Reid at OC, they needed more offensive weaponry in the 2024 NFL.
We're where they were two seasons ago. We're at the "we'll just get a pile of different matchup guys and trust the QB and OC to make it work!" part of the story arc. I predict that the offensive output will take just as much of a dip as theirs did, and that we, too, will spend the next two offseasons trying to dig out of it. Hopefully, our tight end and defense step up the way theirs did to allow us to win even though our offense is, predictably, sagging.
It would just be nice to feel like we're setting the trends, or zigging when others are zagging. That we're learning from others' mistakes, blazing our own trail, and being the team that OTHER teams want to copy. Instead, it just feels like we're doing whatever the Chiefs are doing, but two seasons later. I hate it.I think this reads as a Debbie Downer post, and TBH I have problems with it.
First off, I really think your nit picking with this obsession of wanting to draft another WR in the third and signing a JAG DT. We got a versatile DL that has some real upside where we need someone young at the position besides Oliver. We have a young receiving group and MVS fills not only a element we seem to be lacking, but also has alot of experience to add to our group. I'd rather that then what you suggest.
Secondly, yeah...you can say we are making Chiefs moves years after them, but they really didn't do much for Mahomes, and I would argue that the Bills had more on offense and that they did more to help Josh and the offense in general. Mahomes was left with Kelce, no noteworthy RB's, and they drafted Sky Moore. The Bills have Cook, Kincaid, Knox, and Shakir...while they brought in Samuel and drafted Coleman and Davis along with guys that have some talent in Claypool and Hamler to challenge others like Hollins and Shorter. That is much better support than the Chiefs gave Mahomes after Tyreek was dealt.
I would be willing to bet that this offense stays pretty much where they were at last season, and they are for sure in the top half of the league.
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1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:
Unknown vs known is a huge difference. I think he has potential to be what Robby Anderson was for Joe Brady in Carolina.
That's fair, but we are in a win now mode with Josh, so the experience MVS has is valuable right now
BTJ could become much better than MVS will ever be, but I'd take MVS this season over him
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All the people that wanted Brian Thomas Jr should love this move
They are the same type of player, and neither has been reliable catching the ball
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1 minute ago, Roundybout said:
Camp. Body.Gameday. Roster.
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He provides the element that our receiving corps is lacking...sans the drops
I won't hate it if they sign him, but expect some bad drops
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I would trade for Metcalf for sure
I would also trade for Hopkins or Adams if the price was not too much
Metcalf is a guy you can then pay and have as your number one. Hopkins and Adams would be rentals
The fact that Aiyuk wants to be paid right now and that SF is asking alot is a no go for me
DJ Moore is interesting as well. I would view him in the same way as DK where I would trade for him and pay him after this season
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MVS, as another poster said is the type of receiver we could use to add due to his size and speed and years of some moderate production.
Problem is that his hands are simply not good, and I don't think this coaching staff wants to deal with yet another downfield threat dropping passes.
Therefore, I wouldn't add anyone from that list
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28 minutes ago, mrags said:
You seem to have an obsession over my mental state. This isn’t the first time you’ve made comments like this. You should Be concerned for yourself with how much your obsessing over me.
have a nice day Freud.
Just tired of having to see unhinged post after unhinged post constantly mocking a rookie that seems like a hard working and intelligent kid
Do better
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The history of blazing fast wideouts that are not built to withstand the rigors and demand of pro football is not good
He'll be a threat when he's able to be on the field, but I don't forsee him being healthy much
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1 hour ago, mrags said:
Oh my lord. How will I ever live with myself
Based on how obsessed you are over him and his forty time, I'm pretty concerned with your mental state
A comment a day or two after the draft...OK. Every day since on multiple occasions? That's a problem, my guy
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1 hour ago, mrags said:
What’s funny is I read all that faster than Coleman ran his 40 at the combine
When are you going to stop with the tears over this poor kids 40 time?
It's bordering on being very unhealthy for you at this point, and I don't wanna see you meltdown when he shows you how little his 40 time matters
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13 minutes ago, eball said:
This board really does crack me up. The Bills’ projected top 4 WR of Coleman, Shakir, Samuel, and Hollins (I love the people sleeping on him) is as good as we’ve had here in some time. NOBODY with a brain thinks the 8 guys they have brought in to compete for spots #5 and 6 are making a difference in any way besides special teams. Add a blue chipper in Kincaid, along with Cook, Knox, and Ray Davis, and there is absolutely NO reason to think this team doesn’t have an offense capable of scoring almost at will.
The Bills’ top 5 projected “pass catchers” going into this season easily rival any of the teams I mentioned, save SF.
Some of you just love to complain.
I get the skepticism and doubt, and I think it's completely reasonable and justified if you feel that way
But, to me...I already saw what a Stefon Diggs could do for us and it was fading down the stretch and washed in the playoffs. Davis was a drop machine that couldn't get on the same page as Allen and led to bad misses/turnovers. It was time to move on from those guys.
They have chosen to not go the alpha WR route this season, and they instead got a more capable unit of guys that could contribute beyond the first and sometimes second or third option and are now deeper with capable wideouts that can be relied upon to do their part.
I wanna see Josh play within an offense where he's not feeling pressure to find certain players or take shots to a guy who he isn't in synch with. This may help him grow even more, and if after this season they see a glaring need for a top wideout they will aquire one given the draft capital and cap space we will have.
If Coleman hits, then we may not have much of a need...but that has yet to be seen.
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I do think that we have improved the depth of our receiving group, and we are stronger everywhere besides at the top.
This group is more capable and should be more reliable with catching the football overall than last seasons group...particularly the second half of last seasons group where Diggs really wasn't much of a factor.
How much the loss of a top end boundary receiver will affect the group and Josh as a whole is an unknown, and likely depends on what Coleman can bring to the table.
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1 hour ago, Back2Buff said:
Yes, I don't know how anyone can watch this man play football and think he will be successful in the NFL. The dude just runs what looks like half speed out there. His routes are a joke. They are not crisp, they are not sudden, they are not twitchy, they are not precise, and to top it all off, he looks to be in slow motion. I personally think his hands are grossly overrated. Go watch the 22 min video on youtube of him, there are countless balls that are in his hands that he doesn't come down with. I don't know why those aren't counted as drops.
The guy will not win on the outside in the NFL. Sauce Gardner will literally laugh at Coleman trying to get opened. He will be walking out there and able to be in his hip pocket. You think Coleman is going up over Gardner to get a ball?!
This is the type of talent that you will find in the later rounds or even undrafted.
This is just baffling to me scouts watched this man play and came away with the impression he will be a good WR.
Tell me you don't know football without telling me you don't know football
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4 hours ago, starrymessenger said:
I think the Bills are one player away from being strong championship contenders. That player is B. Aiyuk imo. If the Chiefs or Philly thought that they were one player away and the guy was out there I think they would aggressively pursue him.
The Bills need a proven veteran WR. Where are they going to get him? It won't be in the draft. So it's got to be a FA. Why wait until next year.Do it now if you can make it work after Tre's number comes off.. It would be very expensive both contractually and in next year's draft pick(s) but it won't be cheaper next year.
Of course maybe the Bills don't feel that they are one player away given the number of changes on both sides of the ball. That would perhaps explain why they would rather look to give new players time to settle into the system and their roles in it. But even then a guy like Aiyuk would be better in 2025 having already played a year in the O.
Maybe SF is really not interested in moving Aiyuk, regardless of the offer. They may want another year with him as their WR draft picks settle in. If he is available though I wouldn't be surprised if Beane made a move for him. I think Beane's got it in him to do that.SF is trying to win a SB. Aiyuk was only going to be traded if they could've drafted his replacement. Maybe Pearsall can be that guy, but I doubt SF is moving him before they see if the rook can fill his role.
I don't think this braintrust wants to put all their eggs in the trade for a WR and pay him top dollar basket again. I think they will look to get a top rookie next draft if they can pull it off...which they should since they have two second rounders to go along with their first in 2025.
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1 hour ago, Logic said:
I only buy the "drafting late makes it hard to find difference makers" argument to an extent, particularly when Brandon Beane moves around the draft board as much as he does.
The Eagles, for instance, always seem to be picking pretty late in the draft, but I would rank their roster as considerably better than Buffalo's, and their drafts as usually superior.
As for the middle sentence that I bolded: That's exactly my point. That's what Beane does. His drafts typically get us players that "add to the team's quality of depth and gives us a few starters hopefully". What he has NOT done nearly often enough the past few years, is get anything BEYOND that. Anybody who is among the elite at their position or gets All-Pro votes.
Beane is consistently good at getting consistently good players. My contention is that he has not gotten any GREAT ones in the past five years, and we need one or two of those on our roster to have a hope of ever getting past the Chiefs on a consistent basis.
The Eagles had arguably the worst defense in the league last season, so they have a major weakness which this team does not have. We are top ten on each side of the ball, so while you may think their roster is considerably better, the results last year say otherwise. They also traded for AJ Brown who is arguably their best player...he wasn't drafted by them. Jalen Hurts was a hit, but I think he had a bit of a fluke year when they went to the superbowl. The jury is still out on whether he is worth the contract he got. Their linebackers and secondary are abysmal, and they have taken low character/off field issue players when they fell to them. That is high risk, high reward.
If you wanna crucify Beane for not hitting on elite talent, then best of luck to you finding the GM that hits on them while maintaining a roster that you can manage cap wise, personality wise, and keep well rounded like this one...cause he has done just about everything else you could ask for. He brought in Diggs which payed dividends for his tenure here, and Miller looked to be that difference maker on defense until the injury, so he recognized the need and addressed it with proven commodities...luck just wasn't with us.
I wouldn't trade our roster for the Eagles whatsoever. There was internal issues there last season, and AJ Brown is another Diva that brings as much drama as he does receiving talent. Allen is clearly superior to Hurts, and I'll take our good Oline and defense vs their great Oline and poor defense
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15 minutes ago, Logic said:
Promising of what, exactly?
If it's promise of making the roster and getting playing time and contributing on some level, then I agree.
If it's promise of becoming an elite player, I don't see much of that in this class.
I very much hope to be proven wrong, but Keon Coleman looks to me like his ceiling is as a high end WR2. Maybe Cole Bishop becomes a playmaking safety. Maybe Soloman is a steal at Edge and becomes a sack master.
But when I look at Ray Davis, DeWayne Carter, a center, a couple project tackles, a special teams linebacker, and an undersized punt returner, I see what look like fine-to-good, sort of replacement level players. I see more of what Beane has done in the past: solid drafts that produce rosterable players, but no difference makers. He arguably hasn't found a difference maker in the draft since Josh Allen. Lots of good, steady, NFL caliber players. Few stars.
The norm for drafts under Brandon Beane (ever since the Allen/Edmunds draft) has become "solid to good, but never great". No home runs. No All-Pros. No REAL difference makers. Right now, this draft just looks like the latest chapter in that book.Difference makers don't grow on trees, and when your draft position is near the bottom of each round it only decreases your odds of finding those players.
He made the right decision this offseason to retool the roster and do what he does which is to get us players that add to the teams quality of depth and give us a few starters hopefully.
The difference maker/makers will hopefully come via free agency next season or we use draft capital to either draft a top player or trade for one.
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12 minutes ago, WacArnolds said:
Sure, but the dark side of the reality is you're wasting a year of Josh's prime. Always good to look glass half full and there are longer term reasons for optimism, but let's not bury the lead.
I agree that we are kinda/sorta punting on this season...which is a prime Josh Allen year, but I don't think there's another scenario where this team could've went all out this year without drastically jeopardizing this team's chances for the next few beyond this upcoming...which would be even more detrimental to our chances to win in Josh Allen's prime.
I think we failed to capitalize on the first chapter of the Josh Allen Bills superbowl window, and the best case scenario is to only have one season to reset things and get back to being a true contender.
What Beane has done by dealing Diggs, releasing those older, costlier vets, and now what he's done in the draft should set us up nicely for a quick reload...which you don't see typically when you have a roster such as the one we had.
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2 minutes ago, McBean said:
Did we just become best friends?I don't dive right into relationships, but let's see what happens from this point forward
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Beane on Green Light with Chris Long
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
Not even close to getting that ninth pick, my guy
Next year's first and second with the 1st and 2nd from this year's and maybe you are in the ballpark