Aussie Joe
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Posts posted by Aussie Joe
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Just now, FireChans said:
They are all on the same board!
You do not understand how drafts work. At all. I’m not trying to be mean, but you really do not get it.
Well.. you thought that they had every player on their board -
Just now, FireChans said:
You didn’t answer my question. How would McD say “I think this third round grade safety should be higher than this third round grade WR (that I didn’t scout)?”
Im starting with the safeties first …we can move onto the other positions later -
1 minute ago, FireChans said:
The board that Beane made without McD’s input at all? The one that has every other position on it? The one that may have a WR, RB, DT and a DE in between the first and second safety?
How does McD move a safety prospect up or down without scouting the other players in between? Magic?
Yes … that board …So how much time to scout the safeties ?
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3 minutes ago, FireChans said:
Yeah, he does. Because Beane does and that’s how they build their draft board? How else would you rank the prospects?
Do you think Bishop was the best safety they scouted in the draft? Do you think Carter was the best DT? Do you think Coleman was the best WR?
No. Of course not. They scouted guys that they thought were better and ranked higher and guys they thought were worse and ranked lower. So when they get a third rounder in a trade, they can look at the top of the board and see whose available. Because they already made a board with ALL THEIR SCOUTED DRAFTABLE PLAYERS ON IT.
Thats what the GM DOES.
You are just demonstrating a fundamental misunderstanding of how drafts work.
Your contention is that McD:
1. Has prescient knowledge of what players will be available when the Bills pick and scouts ONLY THOSE PLAYERS
2. Has prescient knowledge about trades that haven’t happened yet and scouts ONLY THOSE PLAYERS that will be available when they are picking
to borrow some British slang, that’s just complete rubbish.
Ok …let’s start with safety ….
How many are on their board say Rounds 2-4 …
6 maybe ?
How much time has be got to spend scouting these guys ?
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11 minutes ago, FireChans said:
Yeah you argued it poorly. You said 50-60, now you’re saying the first 5 picks which ended up being 141 players.
So which is it?
even if you still say 60, do you think McD has secret knowledge of the draft order? You say “he probably doesn’t waste time with Joe Alt,” but he doesn’t know if Cooper DeJean goes in the first or falls until the second. He doesn’t know if BTJ falls or doesn’t. So he would need to also scout those players right? And he doesn’t know we have a third rounder until draft night, so when does he scout those players?
Also, what makes you think that McD has such a high opinion of himself and his ability to scout WR that he would want to scout a WR personally and sign off or veto a WR draft pick? This is the guy who is notoriously hands off the offense except for vague “run the ball” comments. Now all of the sudden he’s breaking down how fast Keon Coleman gets out of his break?
Do you think they have every player on their board ?
It could be between 80-120 odd…
Does he need to have in depth knowledge of all the guys on their board ? -
3 minutes ago, FireChans said:
Not this year. Probably didn’t think it would be accepted after a trade out of the first round lol
Dude, the first 5 picks is 141 players.
We didn’t even have a third rounder until draft night. Do you think McD didn’t sleep after round 1 and watched HOURS of film of players in a round they didn’t even expect to have a pick in?
I think what you fail to understand is how much time this stuff takes at a professional level. There’s a reason there’s a bunch of other scouts and football executives. They are not all getting coffee while McD reviews the film of 141 college players.
I’ve already argued this … go back a page or two … -
2 minutes ago, FireChans said:
No I’m not.
Beane and McD worked together at Carolina. Beane knows what traits and skills McD likes and what player profiles he prefers. He may even consult with McD on certain positions or players. But Beane makes the picks.
I’m not sure what other input you could possibly think he has. There are hundreds of prospects. McD ain’t watching film on all of them and making his board. Do you think Beane pulled up Bishop film while we are the clock to get McD’s approval?
The sole responsibility of the draft is on Beane.
the only draft that McD had final say on was 2017 and it was probably the best or second best draft we’ve had in a decade.
Well… if I need to repeat myself again…Im saying the specific draft picks they are taking are as a result of a collaboration between the two,,, probably spent over a lot of hours in the weeks leading up to the draft discussing dozens of prospects ..
When it comes to the guys they have selected … Beane knows exactly what McD thinks of the guy before the pick is made ….he is not taking a guy that MCDermott dislikes …
Now ..maybe this doesn’t apply to the guys at the end of the draft … but it sure as hell does on the first 5 picks
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Just now, FireChans said:
So you agree with GB here?
About what?You are arguing the same point I am
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Just now, FireChans said:
So what is your point?
Would you prefer Beane draft 3-4 backers and ends that don’t have roles on McD’s defense?
I have made my point plenty of times already ,,,I
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1 minute ago, FireChans said:
Every coach has input. Some coaches run the whole thing. McD isn’t one of them.
Never says he “runs” anything …. plenty of input though -
4 minutes ago, FireChans said:
This is a very funny attempt at a “gotcha” that the 7 year HC has input on the draft lol
Exactly my point … thanks
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2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:
They know who they are going to pick before the draft? Really? Picking at the end of each round?
Do you think McDermott had input on Bishop and Carter who were picked at the end of Round 2 and 3?
Are there other guys they might have agreed if they get picked beforehand ?
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Just now, GunnerBill said:
I'm saying that is not how it works. There is no "tick the box" process. There is a higher up alignment so that the GM picks guys that fit what the coaches want but there is no player by player "tick, cross, tick, cross" process that happens beyond guys who they meet with and don't like and take off the board which happens way before Beane is faced with any decisions.
You are insisting on a process that doesn't take place. When the team that holds the #1 pick goes on the clock every player on Brandon Beane's draft board is available to him. Are there a handful of guys every year that are not on the board because they have met with them and don't like them? Yes. But if that is what you are equating to the "tick" or the "cross" then you are saying McDermott has ticked everyone who is on the board and so you are saying he has 100-120 people he has detailed opinions on.
They talk to each other … all the time .. including prior to the draft about who they are gunna pick -
7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:
The argument here isn't whether Beane and McDermott are aligned. They unquestionably are. The debate is whether McDermott is telling Beane who to pick because he's a "classic micromanager" and he isn't. Beane runs the draft. Beane makes the picks. The chance of him picking someone that McDermott doesn't like are slim because they are aligned on the vision. But Beane runs personnel. That isn't an opinion. It is the reality.
We have debated this for two days now..I have never once said that McD is instructing Beane who to pick
You say that Beane makes the picks … I say that Beane is not taking a guy that McD has not ticked the box on … at least not until the last few picks …
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30 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:
How many others? 5? 10? 20? How big do you think their real board is then? Because if they could only draft people with the McDermott tick it would reduce the board down to the guys he has evaluated in detail. What if those guys are not there? Everyone on the board is considered by the Bills draftable. Brandon Beane decides who to draft.
I’ would say about 50-60 might be an achievable number … he has had months since the season ended to get up to speed on this… Now …Im not saying that he knows them all as detailed as Beane’s team does …and perhaps he might not be spending a lot of time on say a guy like Joe Alt who is unlikely to find his way to the Bills…I doubt he is looking at guys they value beyond the 5th Round … and I’m sure they have prioritised some position groups above others …
McDermott attends the Senior Bowl, Combine and the Top 30 interviews… they are probably putting lines through some guys after some of those meetings… and are influenced positively by others ..
25 minutes ago, eball said:Don't waste your breath. The "McD is the puppetmaster" crowd only dig their heels in deeper...
It's a weird psychological reaction some have to hearing facts that don't support their mistaken beliefs.
Take a chill pill mate … I have said nothing of the sort …
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1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:
So there are some dysfunctional teams. The Bills are not one (though for a long time they were). But the process as it works in functional organisations is that they have clear specifications of the types of person they want and the types of player they want at each spot and everyone from the area scouts up understands the schemes that the team runs and what that means for the skillsets of the players they need. The scouts and the senior personnel people do the evaluations over the course of the season, the GM and his top assistants use that to build a board. In the spring they involve the coaches in meetings at the Combine and 30 visits etc and then give them special projects to look at (particularly if there is a question about a player's fit or they have little clusters of players at a spot similarly graded). Then they use all the info they gather through the spring to make any adjustments they need to their board (from interviews, from coaches projects, from medicals etc). Then the GM uses the board on draft day to make the picks. That is the collaborative type of process most teams use.
I've long believed that the Bills veer towards the smaller side on board size. More in the 100 to 120 space than the 150 plus space, just based on how they act in the draft.
So as for the "McDermott pre-approves everyone they pick" in a sense if they make the draft board then everyone at the top of the organisation has approved them as a potential selection by the Buffalo Bills. But in the other sense the idea that he has personally evaluated all 100 to 120 guys on their board in the level of detail to govern their choices is for the birds. That's why he wanted the man he trusts as the GM. Because he knows he can't do that.
I’ haven’t seen anyone here suggesting McDermott has evaluated 120:guys on their board…I tell you who he has evaluated though in detail…. Coleman, Bishop, Carter, Davis, SPVG … and probably a number of others …
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12 minutes ago, eball said:
Please enlighten me with what NFL GMs you believe pick players they don’t think the HC wants.
You tell me …I’m only interested in what Beane and McD are doing … -
3 minutes ago, bearstobills said:
OK....maybe not Belichick (although maybe). But if it's wishful thinking for us, of course it has crossed Pegula's mind. I grew up in Chicago during the Bulls run. They had a good coach (Doug Collins) who kept losing to the Pistons. So they fired him and hired a great coach (Phil Jackson). It's a business decision. Losing is not OK when you have Josh Allen. This is urgent. So I'm with you on an O guy. And I firmly believe a first round exit may herald a move in that direction.
Im not saying you are wrong about a possible need for change ... But I’ll believe when it happens …More likely to me is that Pegs is riding with McD into the new stadium …
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4 minutes ago, bearstobills said:
We all watch these things every year, and yet some people still cling to the idea that McD is pulling some invisible strings. First of all, if they flame out this year, Beane stays. As for McD.....I could easily see a change being made (especially with Bill Belichick lurking). The Bills are Pegula's baby. He's an astute business man. After Josh Allen, there is no other loss this franchise could endure that would be as crippling as losing Brandon Beane. This board's meltdown after the trade down with the Chiefs did nothing but expose the ignorance, short-sightedness, and irrationality of so many fans.
The best moment of the video was Beane schooling Brian Gaine at the combine. Gaine voices concern regarding Keon's 40 time. Beane, as usual, looks beyond the metrics (see Josh Allen 56% completion percemtage) and sees a very good football player. I doubt Gaine picks Keon, and he probably doesn't pick Josh either. Thank god we have a GM who doesn't fall into those traps.
As for McD....he's a pretty good football coach. My wife thinks he always looks like he's about to cry. Beane has to take care of both Pegula and McD during the draft. It's like a family trip, and everybody has to honor Grandpa (Pegula) by keeping him abreast of the plans. As for McD, he just wants to help dad change the tire to prove to the family he's important.
As someone else mentioned about McDermott … the man is intense …. I don’t envy Beane having to sit next to him for like 18 hours or so over those three days … Textbook MicromanagerI think you have a case of wishful thinking if you think there is any possibility McD could be out the door at the end of this season..Im no fan of him.. but 73 yr old Belichick would be worse … get an O guy in there
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3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:
And then Beane took the running back..... because Beandon runs personnel not McDermott.
We don’t hear the full context … perhaps the underling has suggested taking someone else after Davis and McD is setting him straight…-
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2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:
I mean all GMs take into account the thoughts and wants of the HC, at least the good GM's. Nothing worse than a GM forcing players that don't fit the mold of what the HC wants and utilizes in the team and style he runs.
But make no mistake about it, Beane makes the final calls, makes the decisions on making moves up or down, etc. Beane runs this draft, and McD runs the team how he wants without meddling by Beane once the players are on the roster. They will always collaborate their thoughts on needs, free agents, draft picks, etc.
Im not trying to say that Beane has to run every trade request through McD ..
My point is that Beane and McD have spoken in advance of which players they are going to pick … and Beane is not taking a guy that McD hasn’t approved ..maybe he doesn’t care come the 6th/7th … but geez …he seems pretty animated about SVPG in the 5th … like an hour before they make the pick
On the flip side … Im sure MCD consults with Beane about his coaching hires… and he is not taking a guy that Beane doesn’t want … it’s just a professional courtesy between the two of them ..
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5 minutes ago, jkeerie said:
It's been obvious since Beane arrived. This is a collaboration. I loved in the video how Beane was picking the brains of the assistant coaches to Garner their input.
However …some say that Beane makes the Draft calls …I think Beane and MCDermott have collaborated and agreed the picks in advance and Beane is not taking a player that McD hasn’t ticked the box on … at least not until late Day 3…
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Just now, jkeerie said:
I think they both were in agreement Van Pran would be a target.
Yes … exactly my point… they have agreed the players they want..-
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Ray Ray Davis pick receiving praise
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
“ Ray Davis - All gas no brakes “.
Beth Mowins said it so it must be true .