Inigo Montoya
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Posts posted by Inigo Montoya
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The Bill's lack luster WR corps is one of the reasons I'm hoping the Bills don't blow all of their draft capital moving up in this year's draft to get one of the "elite" QB prospects. I was all for trading up in this draft until the Jets got the three spot. I think that move will make it too expensive for the Bills to trade up and get value for their picks. I'd rather have them take BPA and get McDermot's ILB and the best WR they can snag in the first two rounds. I hope they snag Rudolph with one of their 1st or 2nd round selections. Grab a road grader for the offensive line and just keep going BPA until the draft is over. This team has a lot of holes to fill.
I would have no problem going into camp with a three way competition for QB between Rudolph, McCarron, and Peterman and have the winner walk into a situation where he has the supporting cast around him to have a chance to succeed.
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I'm not asking this question in the hopes that it makes it easier for the Bills to move up and snag one of the elite QBs. I think after the Jet's traded up to 3 it is going to be too costly for the Bills to move up. I hope the Bills stay at 12. I would rather the Bills take Rudolph with a later pick and use their draft capital to fill in some holes in their roster with all their picks. Let McCarron, Rudolph, and Peterman battle it out in camp for the starting job. But that's a conversation for a different thread.
24 minutes ago, FearLess Price said:Its over. Theyre taking a QB. Deal with it.
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It was Crowell that they picked up and he is a solid pass catching RB.
13 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:They're drafting a QB, you don't trade all those 2nd for a RB, which they picked up a good one in FA, Isiah Crowell I think?
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57 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:
So this was the basis of your thread? I can't believe I wasted my time.
38 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:The Browns GM also said to call him about the number 1 pick. I dont think that's happening at all. I also never said the Giants wouldn't trade out. I'd apologize for misrepresenting your sorry excuse for a thread if you didn't do the same in an even worse fashion.
I don't find discussing what ifs that are definitely impossibilities as interesting. But their is a whole genre of fan fiction and things like that dedicated to this kind of stuff. So you're clearly not alone.
If you don't want to read threads based on what ifs and speculation, then I'm not sure this board is the place you want to be for the next six weeks.
This thread is no different than the dozen threads about who the Bills are going to trade up with, who the Bills are going to draft, which QB the Browns are going to draft, which QB falls to the Jets... It's all speculation. No different from my question.... What if the Jets are targeting Barkley?
I don't claim to have any insider info. I laid out my reasoning as clearly as I could in my initial post. You can agree with it, disagree with it, ignore it, respond to it, or anything else you like to do. But I am not forcing you to waste your time on it. If I had that kind of power over the universe I would use it on something truly miraculous like making my kids turn off the lights when they walk out of a room or putting down their cell phones for ten seconds. I wouldn't waste it on making people respond to my posts on this message board.
At the end of the day I suspect the Jets will draft a QB at 3, but I still come back to my initial point, why in the Hell would they tell people that's what they are going to do? It just makes no sense. One possible explanation is that they are targeting Barkley.
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13 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:
You're delusional. This whole thread is ridiculous.
No one is treating Bridgewater as a franchise QB, that's why he signed what is an awful contract by QB standards. If no one else was offering more than 500k for 1 year, he is clearly not the plan and they won't restructure after the draft.
Secondly, after making that trade, they won't convince anyone they aren't after a QB. Giants won't trade with them, Browns won't trade 1. They made a decision they are fine with any of their top 3 QB prospects in this draft.
The smoke screen isn't about position for them, it's about which QB.
The first two words of this thread's title are, "What if"
I'm not saying that they are taking a QB, I'm simply wondering why they would tell everyone that they are taking a QB when it can only hurt them to do so. You say that the Browns and Giants are not trading out of their spots. I haven't heard that anywhere. To the contrary, I've heard the GM for the Giants say on TV that he will listen to any offer. I don't think there is a chance in Hell the Giants would trade picks with the Jets because of their unique relationship, just like we would never trade a draft pick with the Jets or Patriots.
I think this thread is fun and posits a credible question. Why would an NFL GM tell the world how they are going to draft? What are the possible reasons for that? In this instance, the possibility that they are targeting Barkley would be one of those reasons.
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3 minutes ago, NewEra said:
So they only signed Teddy to a one year deal so they could be sneaky in the draft? ? I realize that we’re talking about the jets but I think you’re overthinking this just a bit
Just playing Devil's Advocate. Odds are that the Jets are going QB........
But why on earth would they come out and admit that fact is beyond me. Makes me wonder if something else is afoot. Maybe they fell in love with Barkley and they just don't think he will make it to 6. Maybe they watch Game of Thrones and are going into full blown Lannister mode to try and get him.
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5 minutes ago, NewEra said:
But they don’t think they have their future qb or they wouldn’t have signed him to a 1 year deal.
Fair point, but if they had signed Bridgwater to a franchise QB contract wouldn't that tip their hand that they may not be in the QB market this year? He's under contract right now. What's to stop the Jets from renegotiating his contract after the draft to lock him down for a few more years for starter money. Bridgewater would jump at that.
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10 minutes ago, hmsmystic said:
First of all, your name and logo are awesome. This though has got to be wishful thinking. No one would be crazy enough to give THREE second rounders to move up only three spots to do anything other than get a QB. I mean the jets paid the Iron Price for that pick
I know it sounds INCONCEIVABLE! But we are talking about the Jets here....
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2 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:
How is moving up to get the player you want a "rope-a-dope"?
By telling the world your going to draft a QB when you are really targeting Barkley. That's the Rope-a-Dope. Now the Browns go QB at one, it increases the chances that the Bills trade up to 2 to take a QB, and who is left sitting there at 3... Barkley
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If they feel that they already have their franchise QB in Bridgewater, they are trading up to select the consensus best player in the draft who was not likely to fall to them at 6.
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The Jets come out and have an interview with MMQB and basically tell the world that they are going to draft a QB at 3. Who tips their hand like that? Everyone might suspect you're going QB, but you don't admit it. What that does is force the Browns to draft a QB to make sure they get the #1 QB on their board and effectively takes Barkley out of the #1 spot. Now Barkley is more likely to be there at 3 when the Jets select. If the Jets are really going to draft a QB wouldn't they rather say something like, "Our team has a lot of needs and we have two solid QBs on our roster already. We are not married to a QB, we are just going to follow our draft board and select the best player available." That at least establishes a little bit of doubt in the Brown's mind about what you are going to do.
By saying that you are going to draft a QB, it also increases the heat on your division rival (the Bills) to sell the farm and move ahead of you at one or two to do what??? To draft a QB. Maybe the QB you want. It just makes no sense to tip your hand like that. I've just never seen a GM come out six weeks before the draft and tell everyone that they are going to draft a QB. If you are selecting first overall it doesn't matter. If you are drafting third, and the two teams ahead of you may or may not draft a QB, and you have other teams who can still trade up ahead of you and grab your QB, telling the whole world you're going QB is asinine.
It would also make the Jet's free agency quarterback orgy make more sense. Why did they grab McCown and Bridgewater? I've heard their explanation and it still doesn't make any sense. Maybe they feel like Bridgewater has a legit chance to be a franchise QB and McCown returns as the insurance policy. Bridgewater did look sharp before he went down and if the Jets think his knee is good to go, I think he does have a good shot at being a franchise QB. Makes a lot more sense than carrying a Rookie/McCown/Bridgewater on the roster all year.
Are they really spending all that draft capital trading up to select the third QB off the board in this year's draft?
At the end of the day, Barkley is the consensus best player in this draft. I'm a Penn State fan and followed him all year. He really is a generational talent. Maybe the Jets are trying to play a bit of poker this year and are hoping to enter the 2018 season with Bridgewater under center throwing and handing off to Barkley. Not a bad combo...
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I don't understand the term house money. Money is money. It doesn't matter where it comes from, what matters is how you spend it. Those monies / draft picks can all go towards trading up on a possible franchise QB, or they can be used to draft several other players who are likely to be long term contributors on cheap rookie contracts for the team.
The question is which of those two options is best for the long term interest of the Buffalo Bills. Where the draft picks came from is absolutely irrelevant and should have no bearing on how they are used. Those draft picks represent hard earned capital for our team and they need to be used wisely.
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Rudolph completion percentage is 63.2.
Not too shabby.
18 minutes ago, swnybillsfan said:out of curiosity, where does rudolph fall on this list?
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The Jets are desperate and it shows. They just traded a ton of draft capital to take the third QB off the board in this year's draft. They have no idea who is even going to be there. It's not like they have targeted their guy, they are willing to take anyone. That's desperate.
I'd rather wait like Beane is doing and see how the draft shakes out, then make a move that makes sense when you actually know who is left on the board. Do I wish we still had the 3 pick open for us to trade into? Absolutely. Would I want Beane to expend a bunch of valuable draft capital and trade into it right now before knowing who they are going to target and whether or not that QB(s) is going to be there at 3? No way.
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3 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:
Yeah, people who remember the Kelly years have a very different POV. I personally remember the Simpson years as well. Guys too young to remember often tended to make their goal the playoffs. That has always seemed to me a distraction. The goal should always be sustained excellence and consistently being good enough to compete for a championship.
I think all fans will begin to appreciate that again as we go forward.
I like Beane. I have faith in him. But I don't have much faith that there will be a particularly right call in this case. The odds of a major success went down quite a bit when the Jets made that move, IMHO.
Love your name, by the way. I had the good fortune to read the book before seeing the movie. The book was even better. I'm a major Goldman fan.
Thanks. It's always been my favorite movie. Two years ago my oldest daughter bought me the book for Xmas and I have never laughed out loud reading a book like I did reading that one. : )
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26 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:
Fair enough. Everybody's got an opinion and they're all worth more or less the same.
You ask an interesting question. Should the Bills trade the two 1sts this year and then next year's as well. I'd do that in a heartbeat. IMHO it's going to cost more, as the Jets set up a bidding war with the Giants the fat and happy winners. And I'd give more too. There's a limit, but it's a lot closer to all our top three round picks this year and next year's first as well than just the three firsts.
We've got to get a quarterback, even if the cost sets us back a year or two. My opinion, always assuming Beane and McDermott like a guy who's available there a lot. Which I think they do.
Thanks for the civil response, it's appreciated.
I have been a lurker on this board for many years but have always avoided posting because it seemed that every difference of opinion had a 50/50 chance of devolving into a personal grudge match. I never feel like I have a monopoly on the truth, I do feel like I have an informed opinion and I can defend my opinion. At the end of the day, I have no problem agreeing to disagree with someone.
I finally broke down and registered an account and created a profile this week. I just couldn't take not throwing my two cents in anymore. This is one of the most exciting off seasons for a Bill's fan in 20 years. It finally seems like the arrow is pointing up after years of wandering in the desert.
I have a 20 year old son who has grown up watching the Bills blow it time after time, season after season. The ridiculous personal foul penalty on 3rd and long that gives the other team a first down and leads to their winning score, etc, etc. "Typical Bills" is his favorite expression. He has no memory of the Kelly years and how great it feels to root for a team that doesn't break your heart every week. I'm hoping those days are finally over.
I have faith in McBeane to make the right call on this draft.
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Baker would be a good fit for the Jets in the tradition of Broadway Joe. You don't want to draft a shrinking violet in NYC. I think that's why Eli is a bit of a meh QB in NYC despite the Super Bowl win. He just doesn't have a big enough personality for that city and those fans.
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Hey Gospel,
I agree with you, McCarron isn't my first choice either, I just think he is a better option than trading three 1st round picks to the Giants to move up into the #2 spot. I don't think anyone of those QBs is worth three 1st round picks. If our guy drops out of the top three and we can trade up to 4, 5, or 6 and we get them at a reasonable rate, that's great. Do we draft Rudolph with a later pick and see what he's got? That's fine too.
I just don't want to pay the ransom to move up to 2 in this year's draft. If that means rolling with McCarron, so be it.
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Three 1st round picks plus another pick to draft one of these guys?
I really hope that doesn't happen.
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It would be great if our guy dropped to 6 and we could trade up and get him at that spot. I would rather wait and see what happens at 6 than spend all of our draft capital on trading up to 2. There is also a smaller chance that we can trade up to 4 with the Browns if they are game. I'd be OK with that too if the cost wasn't too high and our guy is sitting there.
I'm sure Beane will be on the phone with the Brown's and Colt's GMs repeatedly between now and draft night building possible frameworks for trades. I'm sure he'll be calling Elway too to get a sense of what they're willing to do. Any trade up the Bills make will have to be predicated on who is left on the board when the 4th, 5th, and 6th picks roll around. No way Beane deals before the draft, he won't pull the trigger on any trade up until he knows which QB falls out of the top three.
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If we can swing a trade to get our guy at 6 for a reasonable price I'd be all for it. I think trading up to 2 is just going to be too expensive.
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5 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:
Here is what is awesome about this year = it's just this draft. At most we may have to give up a 2 next year. The stars are actually aligned very well for this year with these picks
Rd1 = 12, 22
RD2 = 53, 56
RD3 = 65, 96
RD4 =121,
RD5= 155, 158
This is what makes it more or less special this year, the ammo is there and we can have really a full draft next year & $100 in cap space. This is the year to go big actually. If it doesn't work, its really 1 year during a tear down and you will be in the same boat of having to look for one. If it hits, QB is solved and man next off season is awesome....
What if the Giants want both 1st round picks this year and our 1st next year? At what point does the cost get too great? When does the cost outweigh the reward? Would you trade three 1st round picks for the second QB off the board this year? In my opinion it's not worth it. Just my opinion, I know others disagree.
I'd rather roll with McCarron, fill in holes with our draft picks this year including grabbing McDermot's LB, and grab someone like a Rudolph with a later pick.
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1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said:
Completion percentage is an awful stat to pick if you're only going to look at one stat.
In any case, he'll get an honest chance. Hopefully against one of the top few rookies.
Not sure what else to list for stats. If I went with career wins and national championships I would guess McCarron wins those too. Having said that, I agree with the thrust of your post, a single stat doesn't prove much. I was big on trading up for one of the elites this year but the specifics of this year's draft order, team's needs, and the Jet's trade up have made that possibility too expensive in my opinion. I'm not willing to sell the farm (3 first round picks +) to get one of the big guys this year. I just don't think any of them are that good. Once again, just my opinion. If one of the big QB's does drop past 5 I'd love for Beane to try and trade up and get him. I just don't think that is very likely this year, but there is nothing wrong with hoping that it happens.
One thing is for certain, I am going to be glued to the TV this year to watch the Draft. Like a lot of posters here, I don't live in Buffalo anymore. I grew up in Tonawanda and we moved do to the poor economy when I was a teenager in the Eighties. Would be fun to go to a bar and hang with other Bills fans to watch the draft.
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3 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:
IM, I do understand the argument, but there's no quarterback in sight. Next year's crop looks bleak. So I'm looking at at least two seasons of backup quarterback Hell or hoping beyond all hope that McCarron has more ceiling that nobody else has seen. It's just not a good place to be. So I think Beane has got to come out of this draft with some pick to groom and hope it turns out like Dak Prescott or Russell Wilson
I am not a student of the college game and have no idea who the QBs are going to be coming out next year. There just always seem to be a couple every year that everyone fawns over.
I agree with you 100%, I think Beane should pick up another QB in this draft outside of the first round. I think the Bills need to keep picking up QBs until they find their guy. I just think that the cost of moving up into striking range this year is too high. It's just Murphy's Law with the way the board is stacked and team's needs this year. Beane made the moves he could to position the Bills to make a play. I heard the Colt's GM in an interview say that they had heard from other teams (I assume the Bills were one of them) and that ultimately the Colts just wanted to stay in the top 10 of the draft. Not much Beane could do about that.
McBeane can take our two 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks and hopefully put four-five new long term starters on the field for us. I have been really impressed with McBeane's personnel evaluation and trust them to find good players. Maybe they can trade back during the draft and pick up more ammo for next year's draft too. I am just not in favor of drafting a QB this year at all costs. I don't want a Ricky Williams deal for the Bills.
Rumor: Trade up discussion with Giants
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted · Edited by Inigo Montoya
How does something that specific and detailed get leaked? I could see a leak that the Bills are in talks to trade up and are willing to part with some serious draft capital including the two 1st rounders and some additional picks to do it, but to list the specific picks in every round?
If I were the Bills I would be a bit pissed off if this report is accurate, you know the Bills aren't leaking this info. If this report is true, the leak must be coming from the Giant's side. I'm sure the Bills would expect the professional courtesy of keeping their negotiations with the Giants on the low down. Leaking details of the negotiations to the media is just not kosher.
We'll just have to wait and see how it all plays out.