Mikey152

I don't know how they are going to turn out or anything, but as somebody who lives in Columbus Ohio and watches a lot of Big 10 football, Curtis Samuel and KJ Hamler were two of the most dynamic college football players I have ever seen. Neither of them really had a position so they got drafted lower than their talent dictated, but both are crazy fast (wouldn't be surprised if they are two of the 10 fastest offensive players in the NFL) and make magic happen with the ball in their hands. Our offense COULD be outstanding if one or both of them hits. It's a big if, but not out of the realm of possibility. Nevermind Shakir and Coleman and Kincaid.

I have never really seen this guy play, so all my knowledge is second and third hand... Qualifier aside, one talent evaluator (I think it was lance zierlein) said when he saw him at the senior bowl, he reminded him of a "rolling ball of knives" and that stuck out to me, because the last guy I remember hearing that about was...Kyle Williams. Size, demeanor, playstyle (apparently)...that's who this guy reminds me of. Lets hope that happens.

People keep saying that he doesn't separate on his tape...but how many of those people actually WATCHED his tape. And I don't just mean his targets. If he is running mostly bubble screens and go routes from the X, what exactly do you expect?

Another comp I like is Puka...

Don't forget Puka...pretty much a direct comp on who he could be, especially after I saw Puka play basketball

Two points: first point…the Bills have been one of the most successful teams in the league the last 5 years. They haven’t picked earlier than like 25th since 2019 (Ed Oliver). When you are successful like that, it is hard to land new star players without a little bit of luck. so, instead, you have to do what the Bills have done. Draft a bunch of good but not great guys, trade for some guys, sign some FA and be good top to bottom. There aren’t a lot of teams in the NFL that win every year, and that’s a big reason why. Honestly, I think Beane does a great job base on where we pick. second point…no rookie was really going to make that big a difference outside the top 3. We should all really be hoping that some of the guys on our roster like Kincaid, Samuel, Shakir, Shorter, Hamler, Isabella, etc take steps forward. All of them outside shakir and shorter were picked on day 1 or 2, all of them are under 28 and all of them are pretty fast. As a whole, the WR corps is considerably fast than last season. Coleman, shakir and Samuel might not sound intimidating…but all three of them are WAY better at RAC than what we have had. They also have better hands. side note…Curtis Samuel is one of the best against man in the NFL. As someone from Ohio, dude was incredible in college…maybe one of the best I’ve ever seen. If he had a real position coming out, he could have gone much higher.

I'd bet money it's Franklin... Only three WR hit 21+ mph 2x last year: Marvin Harrison Jr., Xavier Worthy, and Troy Franklin. At 22.3 mph, he was tied for 7th fastest top speed in all of college football at all positions in 2023. For context, the fastest Tyreek hit last year was 22.01 (led nfl)

They need OT, OG and CB...per reports. Just so happens OG/C and CB are the top remaining guys and would probably go before they pick.

And Washington is at 36, so they'd miss out by 1.

Value wise, yes... But if their guy is at 33, you never know. They have a lot of picks tonight (5)...going down to 4 AND getting a guy they covet might be worth it.

Franklin is interesting. 4.41 isn’t exactly slow, but his 1.61 10 yard split was. His jumping was fine/good and so were his shuttles, so it was probably just a bad start. Maybe because he was sick. That said…his flying 20 (the second half) was insane. This matches what you see when you watch him play…his top gear is elite. Worthy was the only guy faster on the field last year.

Nobody is arguing the Bills don't need guys that can separate and generate YAC...it was a huge problem last season. The point is, there are lots of guys in the draft this year that excel at that, so we should be excited. But instead, lots of posters want to trade our whole draft for a big-bodied traditional X. We don't need that to accomplish the goal, especially if we plan on running 12 personnel at any kind of decent clip.

We are way off topic, now... This started off as a post about why we don't need a traditional X receiver because we will run a lot of 12 personnel, so it will be harder to press our skill players. Now we are talking about how bad we were against man coverage...and the Chiefs get brought up a lot. Go back and watch the Chiefs game...the Chiefs corners were mostly lining up off the ball and being aggressive with the route stem (often beyond 5 yards, but I digress). I only really saw press man when Diggs was playing on the LOS (no Davis and 3 or 4 WR sets). Do we need man beaters? sure. But you don't have to be big to beat man coverage...you have to be athletic. We weren't too small last year, we were too SLLLOOOOWWWW. And the guys that were fast (Im looking at you, Harty) were trash.

Not only that, but It's clear just by looking at his legs that he is lanky...I bet his top speed is top tier. Edit - Only Worthy had a higher on field speed last season. His 10 yard split was 1.61...so a 4.41 is incredible.

On a tiny TV, maybe... Try watching a DVD on a 70+ inch TV.

And you lose something in the running game when you take him off... I'm not saying you're wrong, but that's a different conversation. Benching Knox for a rookie WR and running lots of 3 wide doesn't really seem like something we are going to do a lot, but who knows...I suppose it is possible and may be dictated by the opponent.

This is an acceptable take...the two TE set isn't for everyone, and if the goal is to push Knox and/or Kincaid to the bench (and the whole 6th lineman concept), then that is a different story.

A few points... I'm not really seeing where you addressed my point about "where" players are lined up...are you talking about having an X on the LOS so another receiver can go in motion? If so, you're literally missing the entire point of my post. With two TE on the field a significant amount of the time, there is less need to line up a receiver at X when you can just have a TE do it. Further, I think you are missing the whole point. Of course, all things being equal I would take a big fast WR with good hands and ability to separate...but those guys are almost always draft in the top 10. If they slide past that, there is usually something wrong with them. I'd take a Calvin Johnson, sure...but I don't want another Gabe Davis. In the late first round, you're going to be choosing between big fast guys with holes in their game, slot guys, and burners that lack size. Everyone I've seen on this board thinks our WR are too small and we need the big bodied X receiver like Mitchell or Leggette (or mortgage the future for Odunze) to go with Shakir and Samuel, and pretty much ignore and/or want to double dip on guys like Worthy, Franklin, Wilson, etc...all of whom were more productive in college AND better deep threats/YAC players. Maybe you should go watch the Lions play offense. And while you're at it, tell me all about their huge X receiver...I'll wait.

clearly you didn’t read the post…probably just the title. Nowhere did I say the Bills should play small ball or not challenge defenses vertically. I also didn’t say they shouldnt draft a deep threat…in fact, I am sure they will. What I DID say was this idea of procuring a Thomas or Mitchell or even Coleman type of receiver over a Worthy or Franklin is a bit of a mistake. big plays, yes. Big receiver, no.

You don’t think Tyreek takes the top off a defense? Because he can’t be playing X and be moving at the snap. nobody is saying they can’t use an upgrade at receiver…just that the type of receiver they need shouldn’t be based on shakir/samuel or who left. When you include the TE, their possibilities open up quite a bit.

I think that IS the point, though. The Bills could really use some legitimate weapons...that isn't really up for debate. What IS up for debate is the skill set necessary for said weapons. Thomas and Mitchell over Worthy and Franklin, for example. All because the later two are too skinny.

The whole point is, if a receiver isn't on the line, the defense has a hard time jamming them. Especially if they are quick. Most off the ball receivers don't get jammed at the line...a physical CB might play the route stem and take advantage of some liberal illegal contact rules to maintain leverage, but they're not trying to disrupt right from the line like true press man/bump and run on an on-the-ball receiver.

Especially if they are off the ball. If you can't get a hand in their chest at the snap, it's gonna be hard to get a good jam on a quick guy once he can move laterally.

You need to go watch the all-22 of that divisional game. Were they aggressive? sure. Did they play press man against off ball receivers? no. did Diggs line up on the ball alot in that game? Yes...even when he was in the slot. Why? no Gabe Davis and Knox didn't see a lot of snaps

Most of Diggs big plays this year were when he was off ball against aggressive coverage. Thanks. And don't get me wrong...I live in Ohio and I like MHJ just as much as the next guy. He can play on or off ball, and would likely send one of Knox/Shakir/Samuel to the bench instead of just Shakir/Samuel for a guy like Worthy or Franklin. But to me, that is more of a luxury than a need.