PrimeTime101
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On 5/17/2024 at 10:56 AM, DrDawkinstein said:
Dumb for him to hold out. I'm sure Miami's FO really doesnt want to give him $50-60M/year.
Maybe that's the issue. The offers from the Dolphins are lower than he expected.
If I were the Dolphins, I'd let him walk. But as a Bills fan I hope he gets himself a big contract there.
I will give you reasons why its not dumb
#1.. One more injury away
#2 Leverage
#3 his value goes down do to performance.
#4 Another QB gets signed lower than what he wanted $ wise with same talent.
#5 Their star WR's get injured or their line badly injured and in doing so his stats severely drop
i could continue but uh... you have gotten grilled enough on your post
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6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:
He is in the 1st percentile among NFL receivers.
Why mention what? I am not the one who started a debate over whether alligators or t-rex's are the right equivalent for short armed receivers.
Ive been looking for an article or a website that discusses this, its why I ask. Is this a pff thing?
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10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:
I know what people are trying to tell me. I am not dim. I am telling them it is nonsensical.
I mean no ill on Shakir but he has arms like an alligator.
I would love to know what arm sizes should be for a guy his size and style of play compared to actual size.
can you at least explain that?
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7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:
If this is true and there are so many great receivers why haven't the Bills got anyone who has ever sniffed 1,000 yards on their roster?
I personally have a hard time disagreeing with Shaw 98% of this time. But I believe saying The WR's are a dime a dozen, turning into what the situation is with great RB's in the league... is so wrong on every level. The only thing that has changed is the gap between the #2 WR and the #3 WR and the fact that there are just way way more #2 WR's in this league now then ever before.
They are coming out of college Bigger (better body control) or faster. Better rout runners are coming out of College the last 3 years compared to the prior 5. That being said the gap between a high end #1 WR in this league and a #2 is not closing.
There is proof that Josh Allen makes WR's better
------------Before JA--with JA Best years in yards
Beasley -----833-----967
Diggs -----1100-----1500
my point? what QB has these players we have gotten played for in the past.
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18 hours ago, Shaw66 said:
Bills fans have spent the first five months of 2024 talking about receivers: Whom the Bills have and whom they should get. The longer I’ve listened to that discussion, the more I’ve come to the conclusion that fans haven’t really internalized what’s happening in pro football.
In short, I think that receivers are following in the footsteps of their cousins, the running backs. Fans, and the New York Giants, were late to realize that in terms of team performance, there isn’t much difference between having a great running back and having a really good one. And you almost always can find a really good one. There’s always a Singletary, a Cook, a Pacheco, or someone else. In earlier eras, if you had a Jim Brown or an Earl Campbell or a Barry Sanders, you were a contender. Not now. Now, you can have a Derrick Henry and, well, you have some great highlights, but highlights don’t get it done any more.
Why did that happen to running backs? Two reasons: First, young players keep closing the gap between what the great players can do and what the next level of really good players can do. They learn the moves of the great players, and they condition themselves to be nearly as strong and as powerful. Second, the defenses have matured – the players are bigger, stronger, faster, so that a guy with Jim-Brown talent now finds a defense full of big, strong, fast defenders, and the coaches have schemed their defenses in ways that allow their big, strong, fast defenders to close gaps and gang tackle in ways that just weren’t done in earlier generations. Maybe some 250-pound guy who runs like LaDainian Tomlinson will come along, but that’s unlikely.
(As an aside, the same thing is happening in the NBA. In less than ten years, the league has filled up with guys who shoot threes like Steph Curry, guys who are bigger, stronger, and quicker than Steph. And the defenses have gotten smarter. The Warriors of five years ago would be good today, but not dominant in the way they were.
(And, by the way, there’s a whole generation of pro golfers who have caught up to the greatness of the early Tiger Woods. They don’t stand out like Tiger because, well, there are a lot of them.)
And now we see it happening to receivers. Again, the difference between truly great and very good has gotten smaller, the number of very good receivers has increased. It’s happened for the same reasons that it happened to running backs. Receivers have gotten about as big and fast as they are going to get. The difference in speed between a 4.3 guy and a 4.4 or even 4.5 guy just isn’t very important – 4.5 is plenty fast enough. Kids in high school practice catching balls one-handed, practice tucking the ball away after the catch, etc. By the time receivers have gotten out of college, a lot of them have speed, route-running technique, and catching skills that rival what some of the best NFL players had ten years ago. In other words, it’s become almost impossible to get better physically in a way that makes any one receiver a dominant player.
In addition to the younger receivers closing the talent gap, the defenders and the defenses they run have improved, too, for the express purpose of stopping the physically dominant receivers. If you want to win in the NFL, you simply cannot let one player get 150+ yards against you, rushing or receiving, so you create defenses to stop them. You shadow running backs, you double cover receivers, and then you develop nuanced variations off your defenses to slow down the opponent’s star player. Quickly, other teams adopt your ideas. The result is that even the very best running backs and receivers are not stringing 150-yard games, back to back to back, all season long. Yes, every once in a while a Tyreek Hill comes along, a physical freak, and he does string great games for a while, but it’s just a matter of time before teams adjust.
What about all the great young receivers out there? Well, I think there’s an important distinction to be made between great receivers and great production. A guy like Julian Edelman was not a great receiver, in the classic Hall of Fame sense. He had great production because of the circumstances he was in, and because he was the right guy to take advantage of those circumstanes. Cooper Kupp is another. Amon-Ra St. Brown is another. These guys are all over the league, guys with excellent speed, very good ball skills, and brains. They have great production, but it isn’t so much that they create the production – they just fit the scheme and get production because they have the skill to take advantage of the opportunities that their offenses create.
I’m not saying those guys aren’t good football players. What I’m saying is that they are the Pachecos and Cooks and Singletarys of the receiving world. What I’m saying is that teams are discovering that the physical difference between OBJ and St. Brown does not translate into an important difference in production on the field, just like the difference between Saquon Barkley and Pacheco.
What about the true studs, the OBJs and the DHops of the world? The guys who actually create their production? Well, both of those guys came to greatness on their original teams, were true sensations and great weapons, and then were somewhat surprisingly dealt to other teams, where they never recovered their initial luster. Now they’ve been reduced to hired guns that teams hope can somehow reclaim their greatness or at least be reliable 4th receivers.
The bottom line is, I think, that the game has moved on from the days when the ideal was to have a true stud skill player on offense (other than your QB). If you had a true stud, you gave him the ball every time you could. In fact, teams have discovered that having a guy who is so good that he demands the ball is a negative, not a positive. When you have a Derrick Henry or an OBJ, they’re only useful if you give them the ball a lot, and that limits your offense. Having a guy like Stefon Diggs, who is prone to sulking if he doesn’t get a catch in your first series, is a liability.
The Bills certainly seem to have adopted this thinking.
GO BILLS!!!
The Rockpile Review is written to share the passion we have for the Buffalo Bills. That passion was born in the Rockpile; its parents were everyday people of western New York who translated their dedication to a full day’s hard work and simple pleasures into love for a pro football team.
I 100% respect your work, you put a lot of thought into it and explain things very well. That being said I disagree with WR being the next RB as far as that kind of progression or regression goes.
In your first bolded.. there is 0 proof behind that comment and in fact its the opposite... WR Josh Reynolds 2023 stats: 40 receptions, 608 receiving yards, five TD
gets paid a 2-year contract at 7 mil a year. At RB the gap has closed stat wise with the difference in a top 5 running back or say a top 6-11 RB. Where as a top 5 WR is putting up way more stats then say a 6-10. now.. i don't exactly know where the drop off is with the best WR's in the league to the "next best" but there is a huge drop off compared to the drop off at RB.
RB's went down hill do to play style. more and more teams in this league are pass first over run first. because some teams pass the ball 70% of the time or more... The need for high end RB on a team like that goes down... thus the value of RB went down.
To your second bolded I 100% AGREE. and everything after that. WR's are getting.. faster.. or learning to be more physical.. they are learning to have better body position, 1 handed grabs used to be something you might see once a week in NFL now its 5 times a week. So I guess what I am saying is.. We are at the point in this league where having 2 really good #2 WR's in this league has become easier.
The gap you are referring to that is closing is not a gap between the first tier and the second tier in talented WR. BUT what is happening is.. there are more and more talented #2 WR in this league.. making it easier to fill the rosters. While I agree with how you feel your thoughts about WR's, I don't agree with how you got there.
Much respect.
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I don't know if it was next gen stats that posted it? But if your just Looking at Keon's 40 yard dash then its a huge mistake.
His Slant, Dagger, Go and Slot Strike were all top 5 in speeds...
What do you do when you don't have a true #1 WR? (yet)
You plug in a variety of different types of WR's. You do not limit yourself to a WR that can only live on the sidelines (Davis)
But what you do have is a bunch of WR's that can run anywhere on the field... No one WR does long routs all day... No one WR lives in the middle of the field
all day... You use your WR's by mixing it up. Each WR runs deeper rounds just a few times a game making the defense have to defend the big field.
Now Brady has had the time to develop a playbook to fit what he wants to see on the field. Some think we run more this year than last year... TBH.. I don't see that.
Play DESIGN is everything.. This year don't expect 3 players.. when the ball is thrown to be all within 8 yards of each other...
We will force the defense to defend a "Bigger Field" This year.
Coleman himself can do a variety of things for us.. The corner of endzone jump ball, getting perfect body leverage, live inside and outside.
THAT DEFINES the type of wr's we have on this squad.
Add what Shakir and Samuel does with their speed.. to what Coleman does... Then you have to worry about Kincaid... and oh yea.. Dawson Knox... he is pretty good TE as well...
I CANT WAIT to see what this WR squad can do...
The other thing I want to talk about is QB rout progressions... how a QB is supposed to read through his progressions.. When you have a #1 WR... I don't give a flying hoot what JA rout progressions were... For the first half of last year... it was on Diggs to often.. and it hurt his timing.. Now Josh Allen can do what hes naturally supposed to do. Its what made Mahomes more dangerous when they dropped Hill.. as a defender... you could not concentrate on just one person.
That is kind of what we are doing right now.. The difference is? Our TE is young.. his is getting old.
Sorry for the long read. I tried to break this up the best i could.
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On 4/9/2024 at 4:20 PM, Gregg said:
that video really did the storyline no justice to how we got so many possessions so fast at the end of that game. That should of been a big part of this
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hated it. i mean come on.. they couldn't get through 1 sentence without dropping the f bomb?
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17 hours ago, HOUSE said:
Josh can run the ball, no need for cocky high priced big mouth wide receivers
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7 minutes ago, MJS said:
Yeah, I just had him lower because he is the backup to Cook and I am not sure if he will ever supplant him while Cook is here. But I think he'll still have an impact.
where he sits on the depth charts sure... but you don't know that... the dude could come out and just ball, amaze and shock everyone. Do i think he will? No.. but I will still but a 10-20% chance on it that he could.
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I would buy his official Jerzey, have him sign it. Put it in a case, Travel to NE and sell it to the bar that is willing to give me the best money for it.
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14 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:
Fine but the thread title does not indicate this.
Then go read it AGAIN... he is clearly stating a question to be answered.
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On 4/28/2024 at 9:19 AM, TheyCallMeAndy said:
Bishop isn’t a box safety, he’s the most athletic DB on the roster next to Elam.
Bills also like their safeties to be able to cover deep and play in the box, he’ll do both.
No? Then you should watched his highlights... he hung out on the line often. Had no issues tracking RB's and WR's near the line. I am not saying he will be lined up as box but you cant say he isn't either. he did quite well around the box.
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Anyone know what Marvin Harrison JR combine was? oh he skipped it? Could he of been worried that he would have a bad 40 yard and 10 split like others did in the combine? Like Coleman? I am pretty sure Coleman ran a much better on pro day...
You know what else matters?
How about this?
https://www.on3.com/pro/news/keon-coleman-runs-insane-speed-during-gauntlet-drill-fastest-of-group/
Thats right.. Fastest in group... What do teams do now a days? Bump and run 2 deep zone yes? Bump into Coleman and find out what happens...
THIS matters... The fact that he is solid (NOT GREAT) but Solid at rout running.
The fact that not every rout is a post...
Now I was not nor am high on Coleman.. But he's a Buffalo Bill now... When you run the 40 bad in combine but good in pro day.. what does that tell you?
Another thing... No more hip tackling... Who do you think that helps? The Fast guy or the big strong guy? Id argue both...
Again... Not my Fav. pick.. but its time to get over it...
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For a long time we have fallen in love with Poyer/Hyde... That being said... there have been many conversations about lacking speed on the back end... and players taking bad angles at open players..
This is a Safety that finds players in the mix around the Line of scrimmage.
Can go one on one against small slots.
Runs a 4.45
39" Verticle
1.52 on the 10 yard split.
This guy evaluates the field very well.
Solid pick. Now lets go back and get WR at round 3.
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22 minutes ago, Turk71 said:
Ugh
Coleman has no elite qualities whatsoever.
He is not even that big really,
6'3" 213 lbs? That's not big enough to bully cbs in the pros
Not very good at contested catches like everyone assumes..
Limited route tree and route running skills... I think he has a hard time getting open in the pros.
I sincerely hope I'm wrong but I think Beane completely blew it.
He does nothing elite, Coleman's yprr metrics were all in the lower percentiles...there were a number of wrs I'd have taken before him.
Bummer
Bolded is just trash.. The dude is not going to break ankles but he is very good at contested at 50%. There are very few WR's in the NFL that sustain higher than 50% contested... I watched his Film. he is really good at body control.
Do i like this pick? No... Do I think Beane Blew it? Maybe... but lets not add horrible narratives to fit your argument...
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I mean Seriously WTH.. We needed Speed.. Separation... Instead we got Big Bodied guy. 50% contested at best,, So much for YAC this year...
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Horrible Pick....
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I promise not to tip the Bills pick in round 1....
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BAH HAHAHAHAHAHA
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Guys.. Get over that the pick was the chiefs.... we got a THIRD ROUND PICK! its a WIN..
and there are still GOOD Wr's on the field.
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My thoughts are.. if we do not draft a WR day 1, These boards will blow up... My popcorn is ready.
:\
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2 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:
OMG I would love to see the board explode if this went down.
https://www.nfl.com/news/seven-round-2024-nfl-mock-draft-round-4
Small school edge in round 1 who had 4.5 sacks in the MAC, while Cinci and KC both add WRs, Miami adds an OT, and Colts add a generational TE.
Blocking WR and Robert Woods clone in round 2 and passing on Franklin
Then DT and S
No trades up or down
Standing pat and taking another smurf blocking WR and 3 defenders with the top four picks.... oh this place would melt down
Must be a Miami Fan to mock us that pile of garbage.
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Rd 2, Pick 33: WR Keon Coleman, Florida State
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
yard prediction time for me. Numbers are Bolded in the body ^^ Some think Kincaid will get the most yards but Brady has proved that we don't care who gets how many yards, but who is open in JA read progression. This is what would make our offense scarry because defenses will have a hard time knowing where the ball is going.