warrior9
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Posts posted by warrior9
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Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:
I know. And he ran 354 routes vs zone.
The Jets were the #1 team running man just 42% of the time. Most teams run man less than 30% of the time.
You want WRs that understand zone and can beat zone. You’d love to have a WR that beats both zone and man.
Right but if you can't beat man, you can't beat the Chiefs.
The Bills play 98% zone (just ball parking because it's a lot) and we can't beat a starting QB in the playoffs. We have not beaten a team above the 5 seed. You need to effectively play man in some capacity to win. -
6 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:
Most of the Bills routes are vs zone in that link. It also shows you the league runs zone defense.
Just gotta scroll man..
it has all their routes vs man and vs zone.
Diggs ran 168 routes vs man and had 26 catches.... just control F 26
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2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:
I would love to find the source, too, I have a pretty decent memory so I believe I read it but I've been rummaging around and no can find. Lots of stuff on which Ds play the most man by down and etc.
Well, he's on to the Titans now.
Right right, sorry. Played*
Wish that was the case 3 years ago lol
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11 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:
Don't get me wrong I agree
I want a big physical guy... Who has the skill set to dominate press man
If you give me two equal football players.. 100% the same skill set... And one is 5'11 195
And one is 6'3 223 ... Give me the big dude all day everyday and twice in Sundays
I want a guy who will come down with a tough catch
That one was but for some reason it was marked 2023 season but it was from the 2022 season
So the numbers I used were from two seasons ago
I cannot find 2023 numbers... And unless I watch every snap to see how many times he was pressed and how he beat it... I can't give a real assessment other than he's always been good at beating press
So I doubt he just became horrible even if he regressed
YES! This is all I'm saying about small guys and Worthy (especially in the first round).. DUDE give me Coleman over Worthy ALLL fkin day. Id rather have him than the Chiefs have him.
Puka was a late pick, ran slow for 40 but was fastest in the drill where you run in a straight line, turn your head, catch passes(think they call it the gauntlet). Coleman was fastest through that at combine this year. Plays a lot faster than his straight line speed. He can make contest catches, he's a tough SOB.
2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:Well, we've talked before, you know I acknowledge that when it comes to watching broadcast film I have "slow eyes" and need all-22 and a couple watchings to know what I'm seeing....but to my eyes, we had real problems beating man coverage last season and that includes Diggs, at least in the 2nd half of the season.
It wasn't always press, in that JT O'Sullivan QB School youtube vid on the division game vs KC you can see routes where Snead just sat back and waited for Diggs route to bring him to him, basically - he must have felt pretty confident he understood what route concepts were going to be run from different sets and cues.
Unfortunately for the Bills, Snead plays for KC or we'd have 1 or 2 championships. Snead just abuuuuused Diggs man. It was very hard to watch.
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Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:
I would love to see that data.
I shared a link that has his routes ran and catches against man... actually, the whole NFL.
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Just now, Buffalo716 said:
Well I just looked back and the off article I used was for the 2022 season dated this year for some reason
So you are correct in that part
But diggs was also elite versus press for the majority of his career here... He also went on the injury report for a back injury last season and never look the same
The point stands that beating pressman is a skill set.. you can be 5'11 with the skill set and abuse it or 6 ft 3 with the skill set and abuse it
But if you're just 6 ft 3 220 lb with nothing else.. you're just James Hardie and you're not beating the press
Italicized: I am not disputing that. He was great. Until he played the Chiefs, Sneed just OWNED him man... unfortunately.
And I agree. However, we need a bigger body IMO (which is why im SO against Worthy for this team..i don't dislike worthy, i dislike him for this team in it's current state) to win off the line and make contested catches. It's been a lot time since we've had a WR make contested catches regularly (outside of Diggs 2 years ago).
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Just now, Buffalo716 said:
PFF says 87 of his 107 catches were off of press man
This is going in to Week 17 of last year... obv it's for fantasy stuff but they have his routes and catches last year... Please share your link.
3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:PFF says 87 of his 107 catches were off of press man
Here's more to rebut your claim.
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1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:
There are a lot of advanced statistical sites
PFF did wide receiver success rate off of pressman coverage... Quarterback rating to... Average depth of release... Average depth of route
And diggs was top 7 2024
168 routes and 26 catches does not seem the best to me..........
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7 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:
Diggs was statistically in the top seven for all NFL wide receivers beating press last year
Had over an 85% success rate
He certainly did not get abused All season by press man
And yes my point was it is a skill set... Bigger guys with the skill set have an easier time of getting off the line of scrimmage but if they don't have that skill set it doesn't matter
While a small guy like Tyler lockett with the skill set abuses press man
Of course everybody wants AJ Brown on the outside
Where did you see the bolded?
We are agreeing on the italicized.. It is not about size. You have to move in a phone booth
Diggs ran 168 routes against Man last year and had 26 catches... thats top 7 in the NFL?
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2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:
If you’re smallish you’re likely going to be a Z. Z WRs are outside off the ball. They have room. Diggs was our Z the last couple years. Gabe Davis was our X. But NFL offense is different today. There’s a lot of was to open up WRs. Plus defenses are also different. Less man, more zone. Especially vs Josh Allen. Teams don’t play much man vs us.
Did.... you uhh.. did you watch the Chiefs game?
And Z WR's are not just outside "off the ball"........................? YIKES
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5 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:
You keep saying Diggs couldn’t get off the line last year. Honestly I didn’t watch all his releases last year. But if you’re trying to argue against adding a young Diggs because he’s small then I don’t know what to tell you. I would love to draft the next Diggs.
I keep saying Diggs couldn't get off the line to the other poster who used Diggs as an example of a WR good against man... and he simply wasn't last few years.
I never said that i'm against drafting the next Diggs... at all? Diggs is 6'1 200 something pounds.
I'm talking purely football on the field. Small WR's do not have an advantage at getting off the line as this guy suggested. There is literally a position for small receivers to move freely and be off the ball.... for a reason. There is a reason Kupp and Edelmen, and all of the small quick guys play in the slot...... it's because they can't get off the ball.
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26 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:
Ask any CB they’ll tell you. They want the big guys over the quick shifty guys.
Big guys that are quick and shifty are just rare, but yeah they would be the scariest.
That is patently false.
21 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:Actually some of the hardest guys to ever press were Marvin Harrison and Antonio Brown... Odell Beckham was very hard to press
Yet it's actually not hard to get your hands on Gabe Davis at the line of scrimmage
Every wide receiver has lost a press battle before... But diggs throughout his career... Had a bevy of release moves which made it really hard to get your hands on him at the line of scrimmage... Diggs is certainly not a big wide receiver.. average for NFL standards
There are a lot of release moves with a first backward step which actually won't let the defensive back get their hands on you and if they reach they will overextend and you can blow by them
Don't get me wrong big guys like terell Owens can get off the press... But there are a lot of modern receivers at 6 ft tall or 6'1 who destroy press
Like Justin Jefferson also
And I wouldn't consider those big receivers... If you're pushing 220 lb or close to basically 6'3 I consider you big
Davante Adams is not super tall.. 6'1 but he is pushing 220 so I would consider him big and he's obviously a freak off press
Cedee lamb is 6'2 but only 185... He's got good size but he isn't huge... And he destroys press also
Lockett destroys press and he isnt big...
Beating press man is more of a skill then something that comes down to purely height or weight... Is Cole Beasley too small to beat an outside press from Jalen Ramsey? Yes
Did diggs rip up Ramsey basically every single time he has tried pressing him? Yes and he's also just average NFL wr size
The top 10 of NFL wide receivers beating press last season is basically mixed between some big guys and some not big guys which shows it's more of a skill set
AJ Brown , Metcalf , Adams all guys I'd put squarely in big wide receivers
Then diggs , lockett , fuller and Jefferson... None 6'2 or over and none are huge
Those are 7 out of the top 10 on beating press last season ... Also kupp and Hopkins... Hopkins is pushing 220 but only 6'1.. so I'm inclined to add him to the big guys although he's really not huge
There are some big physical freaks.. and some precise technical wide receivers
But Tyler lockett is 5'11 and he abuses press man
Again, just because your big or just because you're quick does NOT mean you are better/ worse at getting off the line.
His sentiment was, smaller guys are harder to press at the line and it's just false. You named a few. Diggs could NOT get off the line last year. Lockett (plays slot a lot), AB, and Marvin Harrison are three of the best EVER at beating man coverage. So you pick some of the best ever as an average? Jefferson is 205 pounds... thats not a small dude IN ANY CAPACITY ...
His sentiment is false. You beat people off the line by being able to move in a phone booth very quickly and having leverage and strength..
21 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:I played college corner and yeah I generally would rather go up against a Gabe Davis type than a Antonio Brown
Obviously a big fast twitched athlete like Terrell Owens would give anybody hell... But it was always easy to get your hands on your typical big wr... Compared to Justin Jefferson... Who is average sized yet slick
Obviously you're Julio Jones and AJ Brown's are super rare types... And the toughest
Brother... you are comparing one of the best route runners ever to a blocking WR.....
Now do AB vs Julio....
2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:Yes. Size doesn’t mean anything unless you have all the other things to go with it. I look at size when the player has everything else. Those are generational players.
We are not talking about generational players.. no generational player is easy to jam off the line. He compared AB to Gabe LOL....
If you are looking at the average WR, there is an OBVIOUS reason why small / quick guys play the slot.... its because *gasp* they have room to make a move off the line because they can't get jammed.
Why doesnt AJ Brown play in the slot? OHHH because he can beat man coverage off the ball.
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22 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:
Hardest players to jam are small quick guys. Easiest are big guys.
Its not about size and strength, its about technique and understanding what the defense is trying to do.
So Diggs was ABUSED at the line against the Chiefs..... known for his technique and route running. He's also 6 ft 1 and 200 pounds.. he's no twig.
Easiest guys to jam are little guy off the line.. Small quick guys work out of the slot and in motion for a reason.
Just because you're quick, doesn't mean you can move in a 1 yard box... . CB's line up within 1 yard of you if you're not off the ball or in the slot. If you're small, you're getting jammed before you move by longer arms, physical guys that punch you in the chest before you take a step. HORRIBLE take. Again, that's why small guys are used in motion and out of the slot......OFF the ball
So to your rationale, Julio Jones, Calvin Johnson, DK, AJ Brown, Mike Evans, are easy to jam? L ... O .... L
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17 hours ago, KingBoots8 said:
Predicting the Bengals try to package Higgins to Chicago to move to #9 if the right player is available still.
Chicago gets: Higgins, #18, #80
Cincy gets #9.
Thats a VERY steep price for a team that has DJ Moore, KA, Kmet and the ability to get a younger play maker to develop behind the two.
For some reason, people CLAMOR over Tee Higgins and he has been the most average WR since he came in to the league and he can't stay healthy. He's never hit 75 catches, he has had 1091 and 1029 as his career highs and never more than 7 TDs in a year.
Giving up #9 for that guy.... seems like lunacy.
Not to mention, Cinci giving up that much to move up 9 spots is even worse.
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25 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:
You don't play true press against a receiver off ball. It would be suicide. More like press bail where you line up on the line and bail out at the snap, trying to play the route stem with a more aggressive cushion.
Did you watch the Bills/ Chiefs game? We get abused at the line every time we play them.
have you watched the Chiefs / Spags play at all? They would probably disagree heavily here.
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2 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:
And Hill is 20lbs heavier than Worthy and 2 inches shorter.
EXACTLY.. Tyreek is put together like a brick sh** house.
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1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:
If Kelce was so dominant in the playoffs, how did KC only score 23 ppg? Why was the offense not just humming?
That’s what their O did all year… think you’re proving my point? It’s not about speed speed speed.
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6 minutes ago, Brandon said:
I don't care whether he is or not. He's averaging 80 catches for over 1,000 yards in his first three seasons in the league. If that's a #2, I can still live with that.
He won’t because he can’t get off the line. He is not Davanta off the line. Davanta is special off the line which is why he’s having a good few years.
1 minute ago, section122 said:Why do you keep bringing up johnston? Hes 6'4 and ran in the 4.5s. He and worthy are completely opposite style receivers.
Evaluation of talent bubba.
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3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:
Travis Kelce at age 34 is not an elite or dominant playmaking TE anymore. The Chiefs scored 23 ppg last year as an offense last year and in the playoffs.
We also have Kincaid entering his prime years while Kelce is starting to decline.
He isn’t Kelce yet. He can be. He isn’t yet. I agree on kelce but to look at his numbers in the play offs.
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Just now, Royale with Cheese said:
Do you need a true #1 WR to win a Super Bowl?
I would consider Kelce the Chiefs #1. Yes, you do. We don’t have Kelsey at TE, yet. Again if we had a dominate #1 or a Kelce… I’d be all for the worthy pick. We don’t have that.
3 minutes ago, Low Positive said:This is what obsessed fans do at draft time; they "scout" and "grade" college prospects, form strong and unmovable opinions and then throw temper tantrums that would put a 3-year-old to shame when the team has a different draft board than they do.
No ones doing that bud. But go ahead.
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2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:
DeVonta Smith is and he ran a 4.3
Worthy is 21, he can add muscle.
If we had a bonafide #1. A big bodied guy, Worthy would be PERFECT. But we already have small guys. We do not need Worthy. We need a #1
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Just now, Royale with Cheese said:
DeVonta Smith is and he ran a 4.3
Worthy is 21, he can add muscle.
Is he a number 1?!
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Just now, Royale with Cheese said:
Jamar Chase ran a 4.38
Tyreek Hill best was 4.29
DK Metcalf ran a 4.33
Jaylen Waddle 4.37
How many of those guys are 170 pounds?
1 minute ago, TOboy said:Why are you so concerned what other people believe?
Personally I agree with you on Worthy. I wouldn’t love him and would far prefer BTJ or Mitchell as I think they can be true #1’s.
That said, why worry about what others think? The only opinion that matters is Beane (and arguably others in the organization). If they go with Worthy we’ll just have to hope they knew better than us and root him on. At least it is tantalizing to imagine him catching 70 yard bombs from Josh.
It’s a forum that we talk about the Bills and our feelings about the team. The draft is tomorrow.
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8 minutes ago, Logic said:
I'm not doing this with you today.
It is my opinion that you're fixating on and exaggerating Worthy's negative qualities and completely ignoring his positive qualities.
The fastest 40 time in combine history, to go along with a freshman breakout season, three straight years of quality production at Texas, and a likely 1st or 2nd round draft position, all indicate that Worthy is a legitimate weapon, and that NFL teams view him as such.
It's fine that you don't like the prospect. I do. Like I said, we can agree to disagree. We'll see in a day or two where he winds up, and we can check back in with each other as his career in the NFL goes along.
People get far too certain about draft prospects and far too emotionally invested in their success or failure. I like him. You (very clearly and evidently) do not. C'est la vie.
How fast was the Chiefs team last year? (We were faster at every single offensive position)
Im so concerned that people believe a 6’1 170lb WR can come in here and be a true #1.
The Bills are on the clock: Pick 33
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
This is my list too.