Shaw66
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Posts posted by Shaw66
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3 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:
Big Ben was more of a traditional pocket passer then Josh is .
Not in his early years. He scrambled often. And Josh moves in the pocket in ways that are quite similar to Roethlisberger.
The real point is that guys as talented as Josh generally do not hit a wall as early as people are suggesting. Hall of Fame quarterbacks play into their late thirties.
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Allen is most valuable, for sure. He plays the most important position, and he plays it almost as well as anyone ever has.
But the OP asked two questions - one in the title and one in the poll. If the question is most impressive, it's OJ. His season was completely unprecedented, almost unimaginable. Compared to seasons that other QBs have had, Allen's was very good but not outstanding.
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Elway and Big Ben say hello.
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2 hours ago, Jrb1979 said:
Not quite the extreme is Diggs but in the mold.
You do find guys that make an impact day one that low in the draft. Look at Brian Thomas Jr.
Diggs wasn't extreme. I'm guessing McDermott will not knowingly take another Diggs. Two good years and two years screwing up the team chemistry.
Yes, you find them, but they're accidents. If people knew how good those late first rounders were going to turn out, they wouldn't have lasted until late in the first round. Brian Thomas Jr. wasn't available when the Bills and Chiefs drafted, and the Bears thought Odunze was better. At the end of the first round, you take guys who look like they have promise, like Rousseau and Coleman, and you hope they emerge. It's a crapshoot for impact players at that point in the draft.
I think the way a team that's near the top of the league adds impact players is through free agency. You make a bold move for a Garrett, or you understand that a guy like Zack Baun will impact your defense. In fact, it worked for the Rams with Miller; it just didn't work out for Beane. I wouldn't be surprised to see Beane do it again.
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8 hours ago, Jrb1979 said:
That's where I disagree on the first and second round picks. Yes they need to hit on them better, but that's where the culture part comes in. If you have 2 players available to draft, one being elite and will have an impact day 1 but has an attitude. They 2nd player has a high ceiling and will come to work hard everyday and is a team player. They will almost always take that 2nd option as it fits the culture they have built.
IMO they should always be taking the better player regardless of ego or attitude.
An attitude like, say, Stefon Diggs?
Furthermore, drafting at 30, you don't find day one impact players. You find Worthy and Coleman.
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30 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:
Again, quality post. Certainly for every team it's the combination of talent and coaching. In my mind McD doesn't fall that far outside another beloved Buffalo coach, Marv Levy. Levy was able to accomplish something pretty remarkable in the resilience, character, and consistency he was able to instill in those teams. I know it taught me a life lesson or two. He was a hall of fame coach. But ultimately, was he good enough in the X's and O's, roster/player development, assistant coaching decisions, draft contributions, and all those other things? Probably not. I know a lot of Bills fans look at Marv as one of the main reasons we never won one.
With this team and Allen, we have considerable talent as well. If I have a degree of hope with McD it's just that I don't feel that talent resides on the side of the ball he specializes in. But at the same time he very well could be a large part of the reason why. We just don't know. Further, not many great coaches have had an MVP QB and never been to a Super Bowl. It sort of ups the anti a little bit by having a guy like Josh. As it upped the anti for Marv having Bruce, Thurman, Andre, Jim, etc. Allen is really what puts the pressure on McD and I think it's what gives clarity to the bold part. When you have a guy like Allen, I don't know that you can be considered great unless certain things happen. Winning a Super Bowl, going to a Super Bowl. Perhaps more forgiveness exists with a lesser QB. But I'm not sure any great coaches exist that haven't been to a championship game with an MVP QB. McD to me is still not in Levy's class yet, but in the same mold. Which certainly isn't bad company, but might not be championship company.
That's interesting.
First, it's a minor point, but even if it's true that every great coach has been to a Super Bowl if he had a great QB, it doesn't mean it can't happen. For example, for the last several years, McDermott and Allen couldn't get past Mahomes and Reid, and that is a comment more on Reid and Mahomes. And Shula had Marino for 10 or 12 years and only got there once, and Jimmy Johnson had Marino for four and never got there.
But that isn't the point. The real point is that McDermott is light years ahead of Levy. After Levy lost one of his Super Bowls, maybe the first, he was asked whether he wished he had done more to motivate his players. He said it's the players' job to motivate themselves. Right there, I knew that Levy's reputation exceeded his coaching ability. McDermott understands that EVERYTHING is his job, and if his players aren't properly motivated, it's on him.
As poor as some of the coaching has been in McDermott's playoff losses, it wasn't any worse than Levy in XXV. The Giants showed him the game plan to beat them in the regular season, and Levy never adjusted. And he let his players go out and get drunk the night before the game.
And the talent Levy had was much better. Kelly threw to Reed and Lofton. And Thurman was better than anyone McDermott has had at running back. Put Bruce Smith on the Dline opposite Rousseau and the Bills would have one or two Super Bowls already. There were first-ballot Hall of Famers on that team.
It's much harder to win now. It was possible to acquire enough talent to be just flat out better than most teams, and the Bills happened to do it. In this era, it's very very difficult to out talent anyone. Eagles did it this year.
I think McDermott is much better than Levy. Much better.
And thanks. You're saying some good and interesting things, and even if we may come out in different places, the things you're saying make a lot of sense.
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3 hours ago, Mikie2times said:
I appreciate the thought out post. My question was phrased a specific way and I don't see you explicitly stating an answer.
I can infer from the post that your answer is as long as McD keeps showing growth he has an indefinite amount of time. Growth from the perspective you're stating doesn't seem to be anchored to a clear result as far as I can tell and more to continued improvements. I guess that's a bit tricky given how close and how far we have come. One could argue how much more improving can we make without actually getting to the Super Bowl?
I will ask it in a very clear way. If the Bills go to multiple AFC championship games and a couple divisional games and never miss the playoffs the next 4 years, but don't make a Super Bowl, is McD still your guy?
Well, it depends. Probably yes, but it depends on whether he actually seems to be growing.
I don't know, for example, whether his philosophy about the D line will evolve, but if he's playing the same 8 man rotation and getting the same results, that will be a signal to me that he isn't growing. The league is changing around him, and if he isn't changing with it, then his growth mindset won't be getting the job done.
If Allen storms out training camp in 2027 and demands a trade, then maybe I have a different view. On the other hand, if Allen storms out and Trubisky takes them to the Championship game, then, certainly, keep the coach.
It all depends on what the team is doing.
I've come down to thinking that there is only one metric that matters - winning the Lombardi. All the other objective metrics - stats, AFC East titles, etc. really don't matter. But I also think that that metric, winning it all, is NOT the measure of the success of the coach. Some great coaches have never won a Super Bowl, and some bad coaches have. The measure of a good coach is more complicated and more subjective than winning a Lombardi.
I think McDermott is a better coach today than he was three years ago, and he was better three years ago than six years ago. Four years from now, if I think he still growing and the quality of his teams is still growing, I'm still going with him.
2 hours ago, Jrb1979 said:My answer is it depends on if their philosophy has changed in terms of drafting and signing players. If they continue with the mantra of culture and scheme fit and still don't win in 4 years then I move on.
Now if they start taking BPA in the draft and look at talent first and worry about culture second. They don't win I keep giving them a chance. A good example would be, if there is 2 WRs in the draft that the Bills can draft. One is a blue chip can't miss elite but has a bit ego, and the other has a high ceiling, a good team player, they take the high ceiling, IMO it's time to move on.
For me I'm take the can't miss guy 10 out of 10 times regardless of ego
I like this, at least the first para. You're saying something similar, and the point is the same - if things don't progress, then it's time to move on.
However, I don't agree with culture second. Culture's first, and McD won't ever change that, and it unquestionably has built great success. What has to change is football decision making. They need to be smarter about the people they acquire, especially in the first and second rounds. That's where they need to go after play makers - given where they draft, they won't get one every time, but they need to hit on one or two, so they have a true monster DT or a true shutdown corner or a real stud at some other position. To do that, I think their philosophy about players has to evolve.
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5 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:
I spent about the last 1000 posts trying to prove a case could and likely should be made for moving on, but man is that negative. It's just not worth all the posts from my perspective. At the same time, I think it's fair to ask his supporters where does the line get drawn?
We have had as much regular season success as any major sports franchise since 2020, but we did that in the 90's as well. I hear people dismiss the postseason as the "tournament" but from my perspective, more often than not, the best team does in fact win the Super Bowl. It doesn't happen every time, but most of the time it's how it unfolds.
I think it's very fair to ask if we did the same thing all over again the next 4 years, would it be enough to these posters? If the answer is yes, and it would seem likely it has to be (given what points are made by his supporters) then these threads and all the debates involved are kind of pointless. It would just show a fundamental difference in how both groups look at success and what they ultimately want. So again, really curious how McD's supporters feel about this. Winning is fun, losing is not fun, I like to have fun. But at the end of the day I really want just one. To me that has to be the goal. Eventually I feel like you can't ride the same horse who hasn't been able to accomplish that forever. Maybe some feel you can or you should. I would like to hear perspective on that if that is the case.
Well, people have been dancing around this idea for a while now, and it's looking a little clearer to me now.
Creating a championship NFL football team is an extraordinarily difficult thing to do. The process of building a team is complicated, the play on the field is complicated, everything is complicated. And it's made that much more difficult because you face opponents who are very talented and who are trying to do the same thing.
Here's one example: Should you build to win in a window and then rebuild, or should you build to be consistently good and take a Super Bowl when everything falls just right. Most of us here look at that question one way or the other; we don't agree, and I'm not sure there's a right answer. Belichick and McDermott and Tomlin build for consistent success, while other teams build for the short term, usually with a cheap quarterback and some good luck acquiring star talent. But that is by definition short-lived, because you can't consistently have a talent edge over the whole league. Still, by building that way, when it falls right, you can race to a championship. The Eagles have sort of done that. Their QB is getting more expensive now, and they won't be able to hold on to all their talent.
But that's just one kind of question about how to build; there are hundreds or thousands of decisions that have to be me made about how to build.
Every team has the same objective - to win Super Bowls. It's not like the Bills aren't trying. The discussion here largely revolves around the basic question of whether the players are good enough and whether the coaching is good enough. But as someone just said, the Bills have drafted a lot of good players who just don't seem to stand up and make plays. Oliver and Kincaid (at least on one play) are guys we look at say, "If they'd make the plays we know they can, the Bills would be fine." I'm in that camp. Then the question becomes, "Are they the wrong guys, or are they coached wrong?" And we can debate that. Personally, I think it's a bit of both - they're coached to be consistent, and being consistent means they have to go where they're told, even if the opportunity to make a play is in the other direction. But they also LIKE playing that way, and they've been drafted BECAUSE they like playing that way.
We all can talk about what we think the Bills need to do to get over the hump. Here's where I come out: McDermott and Beane understand more about what the Bills are doing right and wrong than any of us. They're smart football people. If they're drafting the wrong people, they'll figure that out. If they're using the wrong defensive philosophy, they'll figure that out. For example, I've said before that I think McDermott's eight- or ten-player rotation on the D line is a problem, because it means that you have take the money you can spend on D line and spread it around to 8 or 10 players, so that you have a light of guys who are at least decent. If you spread it unevenly, around maybe 6 guys, you can have more talent with that six. Then you play them more, and you hope do don't have a lot of injuries, which would leave with having to play some less talented, cheap talent that's been sitting on the end of the bench. The Eagles played the Chiefs like that, with a couple of guys getting a lot more snaps than McDermott gives to any defensive lineman. Chiefs play Chris Jones that way, too.
Now, McDermott isn't stupid. He sees that and he understands it. He believes in the growth mindset and continuous improvement, which means he believes that change is necessary to get better. So, I expect McDermott's philosophy about his D line, and about other things, will continue to evolve, and I expect that what he tells Bean that he wants in a player will evolve, too. How do I know that? Well, McDermott's view of the wide receiver room clearly has evolved, and the passing game became more effective. His view of the running game evolved, and the run game got better.
The growth mindset is characterized by a simple question: What is your response when something doesn't go right? Some people respond with, "I got it wrong." People with the growth mindset respond with, "I didn't get it right yet."
McDermott is not going to keep doing the same thing, over and over. He has shown himself to be an excellent coach who hasn't gotten it right yet. If he weren't an excellent coach, there would be all kinds of things that we could agree are wrong about the Bills. The truth we pretty much all agree that the Bills are doing almost everything right, and if they'd only do a little more right, they'd be winning Super Bowls. Why is it that the Bills are doing almost everything right? Because Sean McDermott is the head coach, and Rex Ryan, and Doug Marrone, and Gailey, and Jauron, and blah, blah, blah aren't the head coach.
The Bills have a guy who is doing it and he will get better.
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Is It Time To Move On From Allen?
I mean, really. The guy's been in Buffalo for six or seven years now, hasn't won a Super Bowl. He underthrew Kincaid on fourth down. He blew the quarterback sneak. He had Shakir wide open in the end zone a year ago. He's shown he can't beat the Chiefs in the playoffs. How many chances does get?
There's a thread with a title that says Allen has five years left. Well, if he can't win the big one, and if he only has five years left, what better time to trade him than after he's won his first MVP?
I mean, if McDermott and Allen BOTH have come this close to getting to the Super Bowl, and Allen has five years left playing and McDermott has 20 years left coaching, isn't McDermott the better bet to ride with?
Okay, I'm joking. But really, McDermott has demonstrated that he is one of the top five coaches in the league. He got to the playoffs with a no-name quarterback and a rag-tag roster, he had one rebuilding year, and he immediately returned to the playoffs. This past season, clearly a transition year in personnel, he got to the AFC Championship game. He'll have a better roster in 2025.
Let's trade Allen for a boatload of picks - maybe get Garrett and the Browns' number 1 pick for the next four years. The Browns will be terrible, and those picks will be worth a lot.
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Excellent. Thanks.
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20 minutes ago, beebe said:
Monos was director of personnel for the Bills 2013-2017. Pretty good listen for those interested (this podcast is non paywall): https://www.golongtd.com/p/pod-state-of-the-buffalo-bills-with
-Monos criticizes Beane/McDermott for the 1st and 2nd round selections they've made. Says they've done much better in the mid-rounds but says the 1st and 2nd rounds are the GM and the coach picking, and they simply haven't been good enough there. He thinks Beane needs to defer to someone else if need be to make those picks if he must and says self reflection needed.
-Monos: "Brandon Beane was never a scout, he was a salary cap operations type. He knows how to organize. I'm not saying they shouldn't have their jobs...the goal is for sustained success...and that's what the Bills have...I think the Bills need to understand, who is the trusted talent evaluator in that building? Who is making these calls in the first and second round? Where are the big physical freaks?"
-Monos on Buffalo's potential interest in a Myles Garrett trade: "You should want Myles Garrett. Go get him. It might help you win the Super Bowl. But that's lazy GM'ing. That's a lazy GM in my opinion. That's an easy one. The hard GM's are finding those first round." There was a discussion about NFL teams likely trying to replicate Philly's defensive approach after the Super Bowl by loading up on DL. But he says it's not like teams don't already try to do that. Buffalo has tried. They've drafted D-Line, and they took a big swing via free agency for Von Miller hoping it'd put them over the top and it backfired.
-Monos criticizes Beane/McDermott for bringing up the refs/officials before the Chiefs game and again afterward. He says it's loser talk. Dunne questions why they would even plant the seed of doubt in players' minds ahead of the game. Why let your players play the victim role? (Monos agreed.)
-Monos criticizes the Bills' poor safeties, calling Bishop "a linebacker."
-Monos doesn't seem high on the Coleman pick and returned to his talking point about Buffalo not getting enough true difference makers at the top of the draft. "Guys that run 4.2's, they don't exist later in the draft. Coleman types exist later in the draft. You can get big jumpball wideouts that can't run. That's what the fourth round is for."
-Dunne noted that McDermott is entering his 9th year and only three coaches ever - Tom Landry, Hank Stram, Bill Cowher - have ever won Super Bowls that deep into their tenure with an organization. "Even Andy Reid had to leave Philly and draft Mahomes before he got his first ring."
-Monos wonders if McDermott wrestles control of defensive play calling in playoff games. "I'd like to ask somebody on that staff if Sean does call any defenses in playoff games? I have a feeling there might be some...which is fine, that's your right to do whatever you want."
-Dunne: "I think the GM understands everything should revolve around Josh Allen. I don't know if I can say the same about McDermott....he says complimentary things about him. When it comes to managing the game, what kind of game it's going to be, how the roster should be constructed, I'm not sure he sees it the same way as the GM. Gut feeling."
-Monos says he wouldn't pay Cook what he wants.
I didn't listen to the podcast, but I think these are pretty fair criticisms. Drafting late in the first round, it's tough to get a real difference maker, but Beane has had very little success. Rousseau is the best of the lot, and even he has underperformed. Kincaid hasn't really shone. And I think the critique of the Coleman pick is right, too. First round is when you're looking to find someone special. I think even Oliver is that kind of guy - very talented guy, but a guy who's talents just make him very good at a lot of things, instead of really special at something.
Part of the problem is, I think, that McDermott wants these all-purpose kind of guys. He likes them because they come with the attitude he wants - "put me in coach; I'll do whatever you want." I find I keep thinking about Jerry Hughes, and thinking that that's the kind of guy the Bills should be getting in the first round: a guy with some special skills who has to be reined in a bit to play within the system. That kind of guy will play the position you want, but will make a big play for you once in a while, too.
The best big-play guy they have on the defense is Milano, and his big play ability is almost an accident. He didn't come out of college with people saying he was going to make the kind of splash he did.
Comments about Garrett are interesting. Yes, go after him, but that's the easy way out. The plan that McBeane have been pursuing is to build through the draft, and just keep getting better that way. Build through the draft, fill holes with free agents. Beane tried to fill the edge hole with Miller, and it's a bit of a cop out to fill it now with Garrett. Still, Garrett would transform the defense by allowing the Bills to take advantage of Rousseau's versatility and not need him to be the primary edge rusher.
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4 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:
This is just a suck-up-to-SDS thread, isnt it?
Yeah. I do it every so often, and SDS sends me a $25 gift card. 😄
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Every once in a while I stop and appreciate how great this forum is. Late in the regular season, things slowed down here. There wasn't a lot to be said from week to week - just watch the games, react, then wait for next week. But now, things have really lit up around here. Here's a copy of all the topics on the first page this morning. People are posting in all of these topics fairly actively. There are all kinds of Bills-related subjects that people are interested in talking about here. I'm grateful to have a place to come where people who really know the Bills are talking the team and its future.
Myles Garrett requests a trade 123460
Goin Breakdown
James Cook on IG Live -
Travis Kelce uncertain of future. Mulling retirement
JP51
OL Alec Anderson signs exclusive rights tender
Bills scored more points than any other team this season.. \
build through the trenches 12345
Tre White's back-to-back injuries were the begining of the end for the once dominant Bills D 1234
Matthew Smiley out as Special Teams coach 12348
S Jevon Holland FA Speculation
Bills expected to hire CB coach Pellegrino from Patriots 1234
The Super Bowl No One Wanted 123
Did y'all catch Josh's fiance in the boob commercial yesterday? 12345
Is it time to move on from McDermott? 123433
This is now on Beane, no question he needs to step up. 12346
Was Hurts really the SB MVP? 123
Joe Buscaglia's early mock draft
Mock draft season 1234
Bills hiring new special teams coordinator Chris Tabor 123
Slick Rick about to be Bills most valuable non player person. 123
Important NFL dates 2025 12
Josh Allen Super Bowl commercial only in the Wyoming area....
Unsourced rumor mill: Some Chiefs believe Allen has long wanted to play with (Hollywood) Brown 1234
Is Nick Siriani, the second best coach in the NFL currently. 1234
Terrance Gray interviewing for Jags GM position
Bills hire Jason Rebrovich as assistant defensive line coach 1234
Anyone else feel the Bills would have given the Eagles a much better game? 12347
The Eagles beat the Chiefs by doing the opposite of the Bills 12348
Superbowl Game Thread - Chiefs vs Eagles 1234103
It's the defensive line, stupid! 12347
Xavier Worthy: So far, not much more than a gadget guy 123428
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3 hours ago, Einstein said:
That was the most shocking part of last nights game. The Eagles essentially came out and said “everything the Bills did last week, we are going to do the opposite”.
Many fans are talking about the dominant Eagles d-line. They’re right. Talent plays a big part. BUT, part of the reason they looked SO dominant last night is because of the scheme the Eagles were running.
Instead of playing soft man, like we did last week, the Eagles pressed on nearly every play. This made the Chiefs old/slow (Kelce/Hopkins) and small (Hollywood/Worthy) have to fight for every yard from the second the ball was snapped.
This took away the quick passing game that Mahomes excelled with against the Bills. He HAD to hold the ball, because his receivers needed time to get open because they were being pressed at the line.
It was that combination of the Eagles talent on D-Line, AND the coaching scheme making Mahomes hold the ball.
It was the completely opposite of what we ran. And it rattled Mahomes something fierce.
On the offensive side, they hit the flats REPEATEDLY. This made the Chiefs divert attention to the boundary and opened up the middle of the field for Hurts to run when the LB’s abandoned to cover the flats.
It was a beautiful coaching job. Vic Fangio deserves major kudos. I was happy when Miami jettisoned home - he was not the problem there.
Great stuff. Thanks.
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Logic - thanks for this. I had the same reaction watching last night. I've read the first 30 or so posts, and many people are going off on other things - like the rest of the Eagles talent, Mahomes having a bad night, etc., but I think your point really is the key point in terms of where the Bills are deficient. I think there are two points about the D line.
One is that McDermott applies his jackknife approach everywhere, but it doesn't work so well at D line. By jackknife approach, I mean that McDermott wants players who can do everything that might be needed at a position, and he will give up excellence at one skill to be sure the guy is good at all skills. He wants strength and quickness and footspeed - ultimate versatility, but to get quickness and footspeed that is adequate in his mind, he gives up size and strength. That means his defensive linemen at a disadvantage from the the get go, because they have trouble just overpowering offensive linemen and holding their position.
The other is that he's committed to his D line rotation. He wants 8 or 10 d linemen who have that versatility. It's a good idea in one sense, because it's easier to find d linemen who are good at everything than to find big strong guys who are fast and quick enough. They're easier to find because of their are more of them. And that comes down to a question of resources - how much money do you have to spend on positions? Those smaller, all-purpose guys can be found late in the first round for the best (like Oliver and Rousseau (well, he's not smaller)), and in later rounds for the guys who will do a good job you (like Epenesa and Carter). You can get 8 good, versatile guys for the same cost as you can maybe 4 really good guys and 4 backups who aren't quite good enough to make McDermott's eight many rotation.
What I concluded last night is that McDermott's approach to the D line is a nice idea, but it is a serious flaw in the playoffs, when you're up against the teams with the best o lines and the best offenses. When you hit those teams, you have trouble stopping the run and you have trouble getting to the passer, and you're left with one strategy - hope that Allen and the offense can outscore the other guys. Hasn't that been the story against the Chiefs, year after year - can we outscore them?
Last night, the Eagles D line put on a clinic about how to rush a mobile quarterback. They allowed the offensive line to form the class pocket, they maintained lane discipline, and then they shrank the pocket, from the front and from the sides. It was difficult for Mahomes to escape, and that escapability is one of his greatest strengths. The Eagles were able to do it with size and strength. In their philosophy, they are willing to give up some versatility in order to have a high percentage of one-on-wins. One good example was the disastrous INT Mahomes threw deep in his own end. Why did it happen? Because his left tackle got pushed into Mahomes and disrupted the throw in the EXACT same way Chris Jones pushed Dawkins into Allen and forced Allen to underthrow Shakir in the end zone in the playoffs last year. That's a play made by a defensive lineman who features power, not versatility.
You can't have that kind of controlled power rush with the kind of personnel you need in order to play the rotation that McDermott favors. Why not? Because you can't get really good power d linemen, who are expensive either in dollars or draft capital, and still afford eight to ten really versatile guys, each of whom you want to take 40% of the defensive snaps. The only way you can have both is to underspend significantly at some other position.
The Eagles will have this problem as Hurts's second contract begins to take over. His cap hit in 2024 was only $13 million, and it's only $22 million for the coming season.
But the cap is just a fact of life. It was very clear last night that if you want to win the playoffs, there are two things you need: the right quarterback and a quality defensive line. McBeane have some serious work to do in that second category.
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2 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:
That is the last component Allen needs. Use the athleticism as a last resort. He must take another step mentally and be more cerebral about the game.
I agree. Been saying it for about three years now. He made some big strides this season, and I'm hoping for another jump in 2025.
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1 hour ago, SoonerBillsFan said:
Montana and Brady. The two best brains to ever play QB.
True. It's really remarkable that two of the very best quarterbacks ever to play the game had relatively limited athletic ability compared to most of the best quarterbacks.
And that's what makes Mahomes stand out as well. He simply thinks about the game at a very high level and makes decisions that consistently win football games. He has that in common with Montana and Brady, and he's at least the physical equal of Montana and is superior physically to Brady.
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1 hour ago, Wizard said:
Could you imagine Allen with Orlando Pace, Marshall Faulk, Isaac Bruce, and Tory Holt?
WOW!!! I love creative ways to think about things. Certainly puts Allen vs. Warner in perspective.
I've been in the Allen camp for a long time, since his rookie season. A couple of years ago I concluded that he was going to move into the ranks of the all-time greats, and I think that is continuing to happen.
Anyway, on my version of the question - a GM picking a QB for one season, Josh Allen is clearly ahead of Warner. Clearly.
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Well, I think that if he retired right now, you have him too high.
I think part of being a great quarterback is being very good for a long time - the duration of the success is important. That guy the Colts got to replace Manning had the potential to be great, but if he didn't do it for 15 years, he just hasn't proved that he was great. I couldn't remember his name - now I do - Luck, and the simple fact that I couldn't remember his name tells you all you need to know.
Last year, some people were talking about that kid in Houston as a true great, and we saw what he looked like in his second season. All of the gushing over Jayden Daniels is way premature.
So, if we're really talking about all time greats, I don't think Allen has played enough to be 12.
HOWEVER, if instead of talking about greatness, I'm with you if the question is this: You're a GM, picking a team for one season. You can have any QB you want, and you get the QB at the top his game as shown in his career. How many guys would you pick ahead of Allen?
I don't think Young or Marino would be on my list ahead of Allen. Allen at his best is a better thrower than Young and a much better runner than Marino.
Allen's a helluva player.
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1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:
I was probably his number 1 defender and his teams played some awful football to watch. But read those rosters he had and it’s absolutely amazing they would win 7 games. I fully believe he would be a SB winning coach if he ever had Allen. Great guy and prayers to his family. RIP Coach.
I was a big defender, too. His teams played with discipline and character. I liked that.
However, I don't think he was built to be a winning head coach. He was too conservative, even for that era. He just didn't like to take chances. I can't imagine him ever getting out of that beloved 4-3. He was McDermott with less imagination, and that's saying something.
Loved the guy. Committed, hard working, high quality man.
RIP
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25 minutes ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:
This is a well deserved award. Ironically, I thought he should have won last year, as did many others.
Well deserved is right.
I don't know who the true MVP was this season. I can make the argument for Lamar, Josh, and Saquon. I don't know if Josh should have won it last year, but I can certainly make the argument.
What matters over the long run is that the right players get the MVP once or twice or three times. The Bradys, Mahomes, Allens, Jacksons. I mean, those guys are super players, exceptional, and they deserve to be recognized. Allen finally got one, and he deserves one or two more along the way.
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2 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:
I think it's much more historical. This could be a Jerry West vs Bill Russell situation. Only difference is it's in the same conference
It's completely possible Allen vs mahomes happens 5-7 more times in the next 10-12 years
I want Reid to retire!
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1 minute ago, MikePJ76 said:
yea maybe
We are to the chiefs at the moment as the Browns were to the bronco's in the 80s. It was just always something with the browns in those games.
I've always thought the better example is that the Bills are to the Chiefs as the Colts were to the Patriots. Year after year Manning tried to find a way to beat the Patriots in the AFC championship game, and he had only limited success.
I like that comparison because in both cases we're talking about all-time great quarterbacks: Brady and Manning, Mahomes, and Allen.
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On 2/3/2025 at 11:37 PM, transplantbillsfan said:
and focus on Defense almost entirely.
UFAs: Amari Cooper, Reggie Gilliam, Ty Johnson
Over a week to reflect on that loss and the personell on our team is pretty clearly lacking on Defense, not offense.
OL: 100% set. I don't even see a single OL from the 53 man roster who won't be on there again next year.
For all the criticism Beane has been getting, applaud him for a pretty awesome OL... both starters and depth.
QB: obviously it's JA17 and who cares other than maybe money and who gives him the best vibes.
TE: set. Knox and Kincaid are pretty much roster locks. Morris and Davidson can fight it out for TE3 even though it'll probably be Morris.
RB: obviously Cook and Davis. Team loves Gilliam so I assume they're going to work something out. Ty Johnson is the wildcard. He was honestly really good this year and might be the only offensive player we're going to see leave. I do think Ray Davis has a similar skillset and if he absorbed anything from Ty, I hope it's pass blocking. Hope Cook absorbed that, too.
(Side note: extend Cook and create an offense that is Cook-centric in BOTH the run and pass game the way Thurm was in the 90s)
Wide Receiver: Here's the one everyone is up in arms about, but after McBeane's presser I feel differently.
Shakir is great and I hope Beane finds a way to lock him up long term on a deal good for both sides. He's obviously Josh's favorite target and they have great chemistry that can grow.
Samuel is on the team, contractually. He flashed when he was healthy. If he can stay healthy, he has great separation skills and speed.
Coleman is on the team, obviously. Good rookie season and getting better up til he got hurt. Then we all heard McBeane's comments. They had their exit interview and told Keon what they needed to. Work hard in the offseason (with the next 2 dudes) Keon.
Mack Hollins seems like a guy who isn't chasing money. Sign him, please. Awesome special teamer who legitimately plays the WR position well and has awesome perspective for the other guys.
Amari Cooper is the most controversial, but I think we should keep him. He was playing with a wrist injured enough that doctors said he could use surgery. First thing about him is his attitude. He's the anti-WR... just listen to his interviews. And he seems to love Buffalo. I heard someone say he's estimated at $15m per year? That's too much. I also doubt that's reality. I could see us re-signing him to a 2 year $18-$20 million deal and I'd be good with that. In the 90s Buffalo traded for a #2 WR who was 33 years old and that worked out pretty well. I think a healthy Amari Cooper with a full offseason with Buffalo would make for a much improved WR corps on its own.
At that point, it's playcalling not personell.
It's on you Brady!
GO BILLS!!!
Hey, Plant
Been meaning to respond to this. I generally agree - I look at the lineup and how well it performed, and I don't see much need to change.
However, I'm sure there'll be more change than your post suggests. I think the receiver room will change, for sure. I think it's even possible there will be change on the oline. Johnson is probably gone, and there'll be a replacement there.
In general, I think every GM knows that standing pat is the way to a slow death, so I think we'll see at least a surprise or two on offense.
I do agree, though, that where this team has room for improvement is on the defensive side. The Bills haven't gotten quality defensive help out of the draft, quality that helps in the guy's rookie season since Benford. Bishop disappointed, but maybe he'll be more solid this season. I'd love it if by October there were a couple of new young faces on the field on defense.
Who had the most impressive MVP season among the three Bills MVP's????
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
The drought ended before Josh arrived.