Rochesterfan
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Posts posted by Rochesterfan
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9 hours ago, DCofNC said:
It’s not THAT PLAY, it was 4 ***** defensive time outs. From a DEFENSIVE COACH.
Maybe you should listen to Romo - who has repeatedly said - Offenses control the clock - they have ways to stop it themselves. The defense is where the majority of time outs should be used.
Whether a defensive or offensive coach - a time out on defense is the only way to stop the clock or reset your team. On offense - you can speed up or huddle up to make sure you control what players are on d and what you want to play.
Your complaint about where the timeouts were used is just plain old wrong and very 1970/80 thinking. The complaint about why is legitimate, but that was not on the coach, but the players - you are melding a bunch of young and new players with different guys and it was obvious they were not sure exactly how they wanted to handle it.
The coach did exactly what a coach should do.
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9 hours ago, HappyDays said:
The defense was coached well. But the usage of timeouts was ridiculous. The 4th and 17 was stopped on the original play, he gave them a free do over. The head coach can't freeze up in critical moments.
Come on Happy - you are better than this. The 1st 4 and 17 was stopped because the whistles were blowing and the receivers down field and the OLine and DLine all stopped and slowed down.
The head coach recognized that his guys were not set correctly and a couple of players were out of position. The time out was 100% the right call.
When you have several young players on the backend of the defense and they are trying to determine who has who - that is when you get a broken play for a TD.
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20 hours ago, Virgil said:
1 - Attitude - Outside of our passing game, the attitude of this team so far this season has been my biggest concern. We've started games slow, looked lethargic, and Josh has not looked like himself at all. I'm happy to say that at least one of these issues was addressed in this game. On the Bills first defensive series, McD looked like he was ready to fight someone on the sidelines and you could see that manifest in the defense. The defense set the tone early with Groot's strip fumble and were relentless all game. Attitude and coming off the bye week may have been part of it, while so many new players taking the field may have been the other part. Either way, McD's arrow is point up after this game as you can tell he had the defense ready to play.
I am going to start with #1 and just say - I am not sure I agree at all with what you are saying.
The Bills have won the toss and deferred several times - their open drives - many times their only full drive in the 1st quarter have resulted in 5 TDs, 1Fg, and 1 fumble on a series they were driving. A very strong start on offense.
On defense in the 1st quarter the opponents have typically had 2 drives and the results have been: 3TDs and a FG, and 4 forced punts, and 3 forced fumbles. The Bills also forced a fumble against Atlanta that was overturned due to penalty and lead to 1 of the TDs.
To me going through the drives and the games - early isn’t the issue - it is when they try to run plays off their initial play calls and their defense settles in that they struggle more. There are games like NO they never got settled or NE where the offense had things in hand and started the turn over parade, but for the most part they come out and get a lead.
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2 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:
Will be interesting to see how serious they take this. It looked like Daboll was arguing with the independent neurologist on the sideline if Al Michaels correctly pointed him out. If a HC interfered with the protocol, could see fine or maybe even suspension. No matter it was a very bad look for Daboll.
I dont think I've ever seen another coach or player for that matter enter the medical tent when a player was being evaluated.
For me - since coaches are not allowed in the Blue tent and aren’t supposed to interfere with concussion evaluation - they should make a huge example out of him.
The NFL and NFLPA should come down double hard - give him a minimum of 2 games of suspension with loss of game check and a hefty fine. Also any additional coaches and a heavy team fine.
I would also make it just like injured players - no meetings, no interactions, no nothing with the team until after the 2 games are done.
But they will probably say he was done evaluating him so there was no impact and he gets a slap on the wrist. 🤮
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21 hours ago, Low Positive said:
The game was in Miami.
And natural grass.
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11 minutes ago, Pete said:
Besides Allen, Barnes trade ups have not been successful IMO. We would of been batter staying pat, and keeping our draft picks imo. There is an opportunity cost that should be factored in.
Beane traded up for Elam, Dalton, Edmunds, Sanders. All one has to do is revisit those drafts, look how they fell, and you can see there was a good player at that position in our original draft slot, and we to keep all of our picks.
That is another discussion that could be visited, but at the same time - let’s say they don’t get Dalton - the guys after him - none are skill players and most not starters the next - the next offensive guys were the next group of TEs.
Edmunds trade up - again we are talking about a 4 year starter here and a guy still starting in the league. There are a lot of good players and many that are out of the league. I would argue against it being not successful.
Elam did not work - not much more to say, but the jury is still out on Sanders.
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7 hours ago, NeverOutNick said:
We’re such a good FO with our late round picks. It’s actually very impressive and also maddening because they SUCK (outside of cook) in the 2nd/3rd round. I wish they’d just get playmakers early. Trading up was fine but what if you did it for Luther Burden to help Josh out instead of another who cares DT, 2 years in a row Carter over Troy Franklin and Sanders over Burden. I honestly believe it’s only because we have a defensive HC that we keep going to this well early in the draft while neglecting the WR position by just throwing cash at scrubs who haven’t done anything in league like Samuel and Palmer.
Let’s add to it and go back further:
2018 Harrison Phillips - still in the league
2019 Cody Ford - still starting in the league
2019 Singletary - still in the legue
2019 Dawson Knox
2020 AJ
2020 Zack Moss - was still starting last year until injury
2021 - Basham - still in NFL, but as backup
Looks to me like Beane has made picks that both the Bills and NFL think can play with the short life of players.
You can disagree with the picks, but Damn he seems to find guys that play and have a role - they may not be all pros, but they all just keep making NFL rosters and starting for teams across the league.
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6 hours ago, NeverOutNick said:
We’re such a good FO with our late round picks. It’s actually very impressive and also maddening because they SUCK (outside of cook) in the 2nd/3rd round. I wish they’d just get playmakers early. Trading up was fine but what if you did it for Luther Burden to help Josh out instead of another who cares DT, 2 years in a row Carter over Troy Franklin and Sanders over Burden. I honestly believe it’s only because we have a defensive HC that we keep going to this well early in the draft while neglecting the WR position by just throwing cash at scrubs who haven’t done anything in league like Samuel and Palmer.
Dude - you can not be this poor of a fan overall right - you are trolling - you have to be.
2021 - Spencer Brown
2022 - James Cook
2022 - Terrel Bernard
2023 - Torrance
2024 - Coleman
2024 - Bishop
Yep - every year they just can’t draft anyone in the 2nd and 3rd round!
Do you know what most of them have in common - most of them sat and got few snaps other than special teams as rookies - they were given a chance to learn and grow physically and mentally and they slid in full by year 2. Some like Torrance fit the need and took right off, but others like Brown needed that time.
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7 hours ago, Allen2Moulds said:
One of the things we have to factor is who is being activated in his place, and right now that's Solomon. By all accounts, Solomon has been horrible. I don't see how Landon Jackson can by any worst, and if he is, even at this early juncture, it's concerning.
I'm not one that cares about being right, especially when it comes to the Bills. I rather be wrong. That being said, Landon looked extremely stiff in College. Not sure how that gets better in the NFL. He will need to win with sheer size, power, and technique, if he's going to succeed.
Why is Solomon active - perhaps it is the fact that he is a core Special teamer due to his athleticism and Jackson would not be.
Perhaps it is because - per Sal - they have Solomon doing things that the Bills plan to do with Hoecht - not playing a true DE, but moving around and playing some cover and some blitz. This is a new role and Solomon is learning and Jackson can’t play it.
Jackson isn’t playing because he needs to play Bosa,, Groot, and/or AJ’s spot and he is not there yet.
Jackson was never drafted for what he could do this year - this is a draft pick to fill depth in year 1 and become a replacement when AJ or Bosa leave after the season. Whatever we get this year is gravy?
It is just like Cook, Shakir, Bernard, and many other 3-6 round picks - they look at the upcoming holes and try to fill early. Get them in and trained and ready to go when it is their turn.
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9 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:
I sometimes wonder if the Bills sort of use a Bill Walsh approach on defense as almost seems like they have scripted plays. We're going to do this and see what you do, then we will adjust as usually the team seems to play worst in Q1 on defense and gets better as game goes on.
Yes I believe that was McD's complaint, they didn't give the Bills time to properly substitute.
I do think the one time they were called for Too many men was on Bosa and the issue there was Bosa didn't show any urgency in getting of the field, he trotted off and slowed down as he neared the sideline. I'm guessing he will get a talking to on that one.
That was the same play. Bosa was coming off slowly - I think he felt he had time due to the substitution.
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1 hour ago, BigDingus said:
And this is what I was discussing yesterday but in regards to Allen's downfield passing ability. I don't know what it is, but it's not very good. It's really never been great, despite the massive arm, but we're either missing the horses, or the timing is never there.
I know the short passing & run game was working, but we SHOULD be able to open up the passing game beyond that. Being so successful running the ball & killing people underneath eventually makes defenses have to play up to stop that, so we need to be able to take advantage of the opportunities that opens up.
It's not going to ruin us for now, but I hope they work things out in practice & make those plays a more successful part of their arsenal. If they do, they'll be able to put away teams a lot earlier.
This just isn’t true. If the opponents stay in a cover 2 shell - for example last week Miami ran that about 80% of the time per cover 1 - then the running doesn’t open up the deep pass. They refused to adjust so we just kept taking the gains.
Running opens up the deep pass if the opponent decides to bring safeties down to stop the run, but teams are more afraid of Josh beating them deep and or hitting 15-25 yard passes than forcing the Bills to take the runs and passes and move down the field in small chunks. In the 80s and 90s teams made that adjustment all the time - now teams like the Bills don’t care if you move the ball slowly - they figure you will make a mistake before us.
We will see once the all 22 gets reviewed, but it looks like the Bills tried a few deep shots that killed their drives when just taking the underneath stuff was working.
The Int was a perfect throw - the timing and angle was great, but the defense allowed a safety to get there right at the mesh point and make the pick. The only way it will be successful is if the Bills keep it up and teams decide they have to press the short areas. They it opens up windows behind, but that has been very rare so far.
I don’t think they need a lot of work - they need teams to try something different. If the Past Josh wasn’t patient and this defense worked. Just go back to the KC game I the playoffs in Buffalo 2 years ago. Just before the missed kick - Josh had Diggs open for a first down and didn’t take it. He held it 3 beats longer tried to fit it into the endzone and Jones got enough pressure to kill it.
He and the offense is at their best taking what is there and being patient and when a team like KC comes up - they need to keep doing it. The big plays come when you get Spags to blitz and they cover down - that seems to be when guys like Knox sneak through for he big gains.
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6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:
I think he had to take both of them. The first one was on the refs. The second one was on the coaches. Babich and whichever position coach hadn't got his right group out were the blame but ultimately that is a Head Coach accountability point. McDermott needs to leave his guys in no doubt that is not tolerated. In another situation burning that timeout hurts.
I actually didn't like the timeouts at the end of the half this week. Josh had already used one, so we were down to two. He took the first on a 3rd and 2 with 1:36 left. Didn't like that. I was fine with how they used them last week on 2nd and 5 and then 3rd and 7. But to use one on 3rd and 2 when even if the Saints milk the clock there they have to run a play leaving about 50 seconds on the clock. If you stop them and it's 4th down THEN call a timeout, sure. Otherwise I'd let them play out 3rd and 2 and if they convert, and you can stop them on 1st down and get 2nd and long THEN call timeout. Calling timeout on 3rd and 2 there was not smart clock / situation management.
I totally agree the first was on the Refs. The Saints substituted and the Bills subbed and Bosa was getting off - when the Ref moved to allow the Saints to snap.
Some of it was Bosa not going fast, but usually they give them time to get off. McD was furious with the Ref, but needed the TO to ensure the Saints didn’t get a free play that they could take a shot plus a free five yards.
The 2nd is ultimately on the coaching staff, but reality is that was on the player. The Saints scored and some player was not paying attention because the Saints looked like they were going for 2 and big players/multiple TEs - I am guessing one of the DLine thought it was an extra point and went to the bench and wasn’t paying attention.
The 2nd attempt was well covered and handled - so my guess is that really was a player just not paying attention - could be a rookie or a call-up like Phillips, but it is a mistake that McD did the right thing to get them ready and save the points.
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4 minutes ago, PastaJoe said:
He’s had less yards combined (91) in the last 3 games than he had against the Ravens. Is he not capable of being a consistent contributor or don’t the coaches believe he can? 🤔
Remind me of what Worthy had in their other 3 games?
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5 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:
And lose every freaking January…. For how many straight years????
Every team, but 1 loses once the playoffs start.
You can’t win the playoffs in September.
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4 minutes ago, ShakAttack said:
Maybe so, but at the very least, it’s a combination. Because I’ve witnessed the Chiefs offense struggle to move the ball against much worse defenses than the “decimated” version of Ravens defense.Put it this way, if it were the Bills with this type of output after getting our top WR back, our board would be all over how much that player means to the team.
I think most of us - myself included - do not like to admit to ourselves how good this kid is becoming. Thank goodness he appears to be fragile and potentially injury prone.
Are you sure? The Ravens (prior to this weekend) were statistically the worse defense in the NFL. They were 32nd in total yards and bottom 3 in both passing and rush yards given up. Bottom 3rd in red zone, 3rd down and 4th down. And bottom of creating turnovers. This weekend did not help any of the numbers.
It may be the injuries, but right now they are the NFLs worst defense - so we really have not seen the Chiefs offense against a worse defense. They have struggled against the Chargers, Eagles, and Giants who all have decent defenses. It is no surprise they moved the ball against Baltimore. That is not a good defense and the injuries have killed them.
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2 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:
If you look like crap for 3+ quarters of a game and still pull it out at the end and win by double digits against a bottom dweller……. You call it Crushing…… I call it underwhelming and clearly not good enough come January.
Mama always said, Stupid is as stupid does
Yeah underwhelming for 5+ years and one of the best records and continuing to win every game.
but to you they look like crap for 3+ quarters and somehow still win week in and week out.
🤦♂️
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7 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:
It’s a long season and who we are now isn’t who we will be in three months. It is the same every year.
I’m making zero excuses for the offensive performance or scheme. On the other hand, you could clearly see when Josh just said “ Eff it” and take off.
This team has been notorious for playing down to or below the level f bad opponents for the brunt of the McD era.
I suspect as Josh, his pass catchers and Brady get on the same page, bit by bit it will get better.
The D on the other hand. They are who some of us vociferously said they would be and I have zero faith in any appreciable improvement.
This is just stupid. Since 2020 the Bills have been in the top 5 for margin of victory every year - winning games by an average of greater than a TD. They have won the more games than every team, but 1 in that span.
If they consistently played down to their competition- they wouldn’t be winning by an average of over 10 points per game and be 4-0.
Teams that play down to their competition- they lose the Miami game (see the Chargers this week).
When the Bills play their game - you may not like it, but they dominate the opponent and typically win by more than 1 score - just like this week.
Are they perfect - No, but they are still a top team that has won and crushed lesser competition for years now.
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1 hour ago, Sierra Foothills said:
There's mostly agreement on the last few pages here.
Again I'm with those that say that week 8 (after the bye) is his return.
I'm also guessing that the knee brace is a precaution.
After listening to Sal talk a bit, he suggested it might even be Thanksgiving as we have a bit of a mini bye - playing the Thursday before so you get a week and a half to get him ready.
We will see, but I totally agree that they are not going to rush him and set him back. The speed of the ramp up will depend on the injury status of him and then other DBs.
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15 hours ago, Charles Romes said:
I don’t think you can leave a guy on IR if he’s physically ready but not playbook ready, which is exactly what McDermott said he is.
That is not true. The team can decide when or if they want to activate the return window once they are on IR.
Even if healthy - they can leave him on IR for the year or they can activate a window and after 21 days - even if healthy - return him to full season IR.
The way he looks with the big brace and the fact that guys on IR can’t practice or attend meetings - my guess is physically there appears to be many things he can’t do and mentally he will need ramp up time.
So if I had to guess - I would think they give him more time now to let it get better and then around the bye you start the activation if he is physically ready - so the coaches have a full week to try to mental work to catch him up followed by a couple of weeks of practice to put pieces together and then you add him to the roster.
There is no rush right now - give him maximum time - and know everything changes with another injury on the team - the Bills have the flexibility to speed up or slow down the timeline.
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2 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:
This changes the narrative in Daboll's favor.
Instead of losing games with a veteran, he's now patiently developing a rookie much like he did with MVP Josh Allen.
Yeah - except the guy he was brought into develop - he destroyed and is now totally revitalized in Indy and the guy he left in Buffalo has grown way beyond anything Daboll could teach.
The Giants would have been smart to move on last year and let a new HC pick the QB, but now they have a terrible coach with a rookie he chose. This is why the Jets have failed so much - stupid management.
I have no idea what Dart will do, but after they fail this year - it falls to a new coach with no ties to decide on the future - ala a bunch of Jets and Bears QBs before him.
Not sure any of makes Daboll look good.
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24 minutes ago, ganesh said:
Hasn't Beane done exactly the same...Continued investment on the DL and the DBs...but the results have not been there.
Not really - the Bills have almost always had about an even mix of offense and defense being drafted.
Yes there have been many DL, but not compared to what NE did.
For example Beane’s drafts
2018 - 3 Defense and 1 offense with that being Josh
2019 - top pick was DT - Oliver and then 3 offensive players
2020 - our 1st went for WR then DE and 3 offensive players
2021 - 2 offensive and 2 defensive
2023 - 3 offensive and 1 defensive
2024 - 2 offensive and 2 defensive
through 2024 - the higher picks have been defensive driven, but there have been more offensive guys picked in the first 4 picks - plus a trade of a #1 for WR.
He has invested on the OL and the DL and we have gotten some return - guys like Oliver have been valuable, but it has not been as successful, but for it to be like NE - he has to repeat the 2025 draft for multiple years.
Up until this year they have had a balanced early draft covering both offense and defense - much like NE did early in Brady’s run, but then they shifted to nearly drafting 100% defense early and built that way - 2025 was like that for Buffalo.
Now how are fans going to react if we did 2025 (5 of 6 top picks on D) for 8 of the next 10 years - that was NE when their D was dominant.
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32 minutes ago, ganesh said:
I wish Allen could have the same defenses that Brady had in those glory years.
They could, but it would drive people crazy. Just look at NE’s draft from 2003 to 2012 a period of 10 years of hefty dominance.
2003: 4 of the top 5 picks on defense including their 1st pick
2004: 4 of the top 5 picks on defense including their 1st pick
2005: 3 Defense and 2 offense in first 5 - both offense on OL including 1st
2006: offensive draft RB, WR, TE, FB, and K in first 4 rounds - all failures except K
2007: 4 of top 5 defense including 1st round
2008: 4 of top 5 defense including 1st round - only offense a failed QB in 3rd
2009: 3 of top 4 defense including 1st
2010: 3 of top 4 defense including 1st
2011: offensive draft OT in 1st, DB in 2nd then 2 RB and a QB
2012: 6 of 7 were defense including 1st.
So for a 10 year run 8 of the 10 years the defense was drafted 1st and mostly and when they did go offense it was mostly OL or TE (Gronk in 2010 2nd round). They drafted few skill players mostly RBs that failed out.
Many of those highly drafted defensive players paired nicely - many left and came back later on cheap contracts to guide the next group. The majority were DL and DBs especially early.
Why were they successful- they let Brady handle making the offense work and drafted the defensive side over and over and over filling new players in, resigning those they could and cutting and trading those that wanted out, but that is where they drafts went and that is why they were successful.
People here lose their minds that we are not picking offensive weapons for Josh all the time.
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11 hours ago, GoBills808 said:
i am watching it- this is an example of what folks are saying
now granted i am not an NFL coach but this to me is single high. and look was the same presnap
allen seems like he's reading playside backer the whole way so once he comes off coleman immediately checks down to cook. never even looks at hawes running the 8 completely wide open for a 60yard TD
Correct and this is why people are wrong. Josh read the play pre-snap - knew what the options were and what we needed and immediately took the check down and the positive yards.
As Sal and Eric point out - could he have come off and looked for Kincaid up the seam - yes, but there is no guarantee he is as open. If he starts to the right side - the safety drifts more to the right and the corner that is rotating to the deep half is drawn that way.
Josh in year 1 or 2 would hold the ball and try to fit that in and maybe it works, but maybe the corner gets a break and we get either a pick or an incompletion. That was why in the early years we had so many 3rd and longs that Josh had to put a cape on and why we had so many turnovers.
Now we have exactly what people asked for at that time and for years - a controlled, RAC yards offense much like what Sean Payton ran in NO with Drew Brees.
The Down field passes have been there - This one - JT O’Sullivan points out a different play with 2 TE seams, but Josh is taking the sure and easy completion and going positive yards every play.
That doesn’t mean there won’t be struggles - look at the blanket the Chiefs put on the Eagles - it happens, but it does not mean there is an issue - they are playing in structure and timing.
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6 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:
Sheesh. Of course there is a way it's correct. Functionally Miami has 2 timeouts with one saved to kick the FG.
I don't give a crap if we end the half with extra timeouts, this is a nonsensical factor when you're trying to avoid surrendering the TD at all costs in a tight game.
If the Bills let the clock run it either forces Miami to burn those two timeouts instead of us, or let the clock run.
Dolphins don't want to give Josh time, so they let the clock run on second and 5. The play takes 8 seconds so probably it's third and seven and the clock has 25 or so seconds left If Miami takes the TO it leaves them with one more disposable timeout.
With one timeout we gifted them around 20 seconds of game time and disrespected them when even McD admits our D will be suspect at times with all the youth and injuries. We took all the pressure of the clock off of them. After this, the scenarios are too variable to debate but the bottom line is Miami got the TD with 8 seconds remaining.
Yes and therefore - you cede all control on the drive to the Dolphins.
In your situation- you basically give up any chance for the Bills to get the ball back and you allow the Dolphins to dictate what they want to run.
You also free them up to take endzone shots and let the half end exactly as it did. By using the timeouts - the Bills gave themselves a shot at control and if Bosa keeps contain on the pressure on 3rd down - you get both scenarios. The Dolphins have to kick the FG and the Bills get the ball back with 20 seconds.
Both scenarios have played out numerous times in history - one - you are ceding the points and allowing your opponent to dictate and one you are trying to dictate plays, but both require your defense to make a stop.
In this case - the Bills didn’t and that drove the narrative, but I would still prefer McD to be aggressive and try to dictate even on defense - rather than be passive and allow your opponent to dictate down, distance, and time.
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11/2/25 GAMEDAY Bills vs Chiefs 4:30pm Post Game Thread
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
Yeah - stupid like Andy Reid using 5 of 6 timeouts on defense. Worst coach in the league. You would think by now Andy would know to save those time outs for offense.
🤦♂️