racketmaster
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Posts posted by racketmaster
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If you want to be considered a present day franchise qb, don't lose to the Browns. Rivers still puts up some nice passing stats but he has not done a lot of winning since Tomlinson left. Rivers coming to Buffalo would be like Bledsoe 2.0. I don't need to see that again.
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Woah!
You may be the only man on that particular hill.[/quote.
Add me to the hill as well. It's getting pretty crowded up here because mannc makes too much sense.
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Rivers has certainly been a better QB than Taylor over his career, but that is not really relevant to whether a team should trade Taylor for him in 2017. Rivers is 36 years old and is coming off the worst season of his career, in which he threw 21 picks and led his team to a 5-11 record. The year before that, Rivers had better numbers, but the Chargers were 4-12. He is no longer a true franchise QB and there is no way I trade Taylor for him. The idea of trading TT and three number one picks for Rivers (as one person suggested) is quite possibly the most absurd idea ever floated on this board.
No doubt. Rivers is a big name and a lot of people like to cling to the past. Let's trade 3 firsts for a 36 year old who has 1 or 2 years left of decent football. Rivers is the only qb to lose to the Browns last year. But somehow those same people will be telling us that the NFL is all about the quarterback and you must have a good one in order to win. It just does not add up.
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This is the best thread i have seen since the draft.
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Thankfully the chances of Rivers coming to Buffalo are .000001%
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Rivers is overrated. He is a good QB that was surrounded by a ton of talent in his early days in SD. Those SD teams were loaded on both sides of the ball and still could not get it done in the playoffs. Plus, Tomlinson was the engine that made that offense tick when they were good. Rivers was 46-18 playing with Tomlinson. Since Tomlinson left SD, Rivers is 51-61. He also earns 20m per year and is the least mobile qb in the NFL. Brady has slightly improved in this area while Rivers has become Bledsoe 2.0 in the pocket. Way too many turnovers and Rivers is so good that he lost to the Browns last year who should have been 0-16. This is a classic sucker trade because Rivers has the big name while Taylor has received more than his share of blame. In reality, Taylor will outproduce Rivers on the field in 2017 and still cost less. And by outproduce, I mean his overall passing/rushing and ball security will surpass what Rivers puts up. Rivers will still put up big passing numbers, especially early in the season as he always does. He is not a bad fantasy qb to have but I would not want him as my actual qb in 2017 with his inflated salary.
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Nothing. Tyrod will have a better season than Rivers!!!
Correct. Rivers has been on the decline and has had too many turnovers.
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I just don't see us being worse. For starters the two most important elements of a team (Head Coach and Quarterback) should be improved over 2016.
McDermott > Ryan Times have changed and the NFL has been trending toward analytics, situational football and efficiency with limited practices. Ryan lacked in all 3 areas and McDermott should help the team improve upon things like discipline, opposing team tendencies and situational awareness.The change at head coach is very important (eg. SF before and after Harbaugh).
Taylor 17 > Taylor 16 The improvement comes down to coaching, scheme and the likelihood he will be surrounded with better weapons. Taylor was running a Kaepernick style offense that Roman brought to Buffalo and there was a change after week 2 (which is usually never a good thing). Lynn introduced some new concepts to the offense but it could only be modified so much without an off season to practice. Taylor liked the Kubiak/Dennison offense in Baltimore and Kubiak/Dennison seemed to believe Taylor was a great fit as well. Being under center more and more bootlegs should help. Plus, Taylor is likely to have much better passing weapons at his disposal in Watkins, Jones, Holmes etc. I expect about a 15-20% improvement in passing numbers by Taylor.
In addition to the HC and quarterback, wr should be better. Watkins was basically irrelevant last year. If he cant come back healthy, this will likely be his best season. He is a dynamic playmaker when healthy and was missed last year. I see Jones/Holmes as a slight upgrade over Woods/Goodwin. A healthy Watkins will be the biggest difference here.
TE and OL should remain relatively constant as I don't expect much of a change in overall play at those positions.
What about the defense? Let's add Shaq Lawson into the mix as he was basically a non-factor last year. The biggest addition should be Dareus as he missing in action last year due to the 4 game suspension and then subsequent injury.
LB may be a slight decline with Zac Brown leaving but it should not be a noticeable change.
Corner should be a slight decline with Gilmore leaving. However, White appears to be a plug and play cb and the scheme change should take some of the pressure off our corners. Darby having a bounce back year may be able to compensate for the loss of Gilmore.
Safety could be a slight improvement. I like Hyde a lot and he should be a great addition. Poyer is interesting but a bit of a mystery. Safety was an issue last year with Williams going down. Hyde alone should give this group a slight boost but there is not much depth here.
3-4 to 4-3. Scheme change could be as big a plus as anything on the defense. Going back to the 4-3 should help our dl get back to top 5 status.
Special teams: The biggest change here is Hauschka in place of Carpenter. Carpenter lost confidence and had a difficult time with both extra points and field goals. He also did not have a very big leg and his range was limited. In comes Hauschka who is the 3rd all-time field goal kicker in terms of percentage. Sure he had a bad year in 2016 in terms of extra points. But he is a much more consistent fg kicker and will give us more range. Having a clutch kicker will be important in close games.
Sure, injuries could hurt us and the schedule could be tougher. But overall, I am very optimistic that the 2017 Bills will be better than the 2016.
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No to signing Byrd. If we wanted a safety who could not stay on the field we could have just kept Williams.
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I like the idea of adding Barnidge with the intention of cutting Clay next year. With the cap hit, i dont think it is possible to release clay this year. Next season the Bills can bite the bullet and take on the dead $.
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OBJ might be looking for a contract that pays him 17-18 mil per year. I like Sammy but if that is the type of $ it would require for a long term deal, then not interested (assuming he stays healthy and plays to his potential). I would rather pay 2 really solid wrs 8-9 per year than 1 wr a huge deal. If $ were not a consideration then you keep Sammy no questions asked. But there is a cap and Beane will consider $ when determining whether to keep Sammy.
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Thread title says it all. I wish Whaley all the best.
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Hauschka currently ranks as the 3rd All-time fg kicker in NFL history behind Justin Tucker and Dan Bailey. He is just ahead of Stephen Gostkowski. He is an upgrade as Carpenter has been below average the past 2 years. Plus he has a stronger leg for longer fgs and potentially eliminates carry an extra kickoff specialist. This was a great signing.
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If Ragland shows up over 240, for a new coaching staff, in a new defense, after a lost rookie year, being a questionable scheme fit, he's a complete, utter moron.
When on radio last week, I believe Ragland admitted that he is 254lbs and was working on losing more weight as he works his way back.
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I'm sorry, but I don't find your opinion that McD thinks Tyrod is the future is a reasonable one. I'm not calling you an idiot. Everyone has unreasonable opinions.
Some guy said that he'd take Karlos over Zeke. That's his opinion. He defended it. I found it unreasonable.
The "future" is a relative term. If the future means the next 2 years, then TT is McD's guy. McD had weeks to review TT's tape and look at all other options available. He is a methodical, detail-oriented and analytical and all part of his "process" when making decisions. The Sammy situation was very similar and McD does not just make quick proclamations without giving them serious thought. What we know is that McD thoroughly reviewed TT and came to the conclusion that he was their best option at basically 15m per year. Would he and the Bills gone higher, nobody knows except for McD. But TT seemed eager to stay with the Bills right from the beginning of McD's hire. After being treated poorly at the end of the season, he called McD after he was hired and he was there for his first press conference. It is clear that TT wanted to be with the Bills or otherwise he would have just disappeared and rehabbed on his own. But instead, he stayed in Buffalo and rehabbed and he and McD got to know each other further. TT and McD are similar guys in that they are very competitive, hard-working and down to earth. In addition to what McD saw on tape, I believe TT's dedication and hard working attitude won him over. McD said he wanted a "leader" at the QB position and he decided to go with TT. the 2 year deal gives McD more than enough time to see TT under his system. McD also hired Dennison before making the decision on TT. This gave him further insight on TT. McD interviewed Dennison and it is clear that Dennison has been a fan of TT. This would have come through during the interview process and McD hired the OC who believes in TT. All reports indicated that McD and Whaley were at odds over TT. Hiring Dennison gave McD another voice that would be on his side as far as keeping TT.
Getting back to TT, it was clear he wanted to stay in Buffalo from the beginning of McD's hire. Why? I really don't know but I can take an educated guess. TT looked at his situation in Buffalo and saw an offense that had been in the top 10 in the NFL in scoring. In fact, they were in the top 5 in scoring from week 2 thru week 16. This was without Watkins (he was a shell of himself all last year) and a rash of injuries at the wr position. He sees that he has a solid OL and some playmakers around him (Watkins, Clay, McCoy) when healthy. His early meetings with McD likely went well and he sees the HC hire an OC that believes in him. An OC that will install a system that he is familiar with and that he believes will maximize his potential. I know we are used to athletes just going to the team that pays the most $, but not all of them do this. I see TT as a guy that wants to be paid fairly but will not try and hold a team hostage to try and squeeze every last dollar out of them. TT likes his supporting cast and he likes his OC. He probably really likes McD. There would have only been only 5-6 other NFL teams out there that were looking to upgrade their starting QB (Chicago, Denver, Jets, Cleveland, Houston, SF). 4 of those teams have limited weapons on offense and TT would be risking going to a new team, with a new system and lesser offensive weapons. In Denver and Houston, the teams have been solid (slightly better than the Bills). But maybe they did not show as much interest or maybe TT did not feel those teams would be running a Shanahan/Kubiak offense that he felt comfortable with. There certainly could be other reasons but if I am TT why not stay in Buffalo. I have friends on the team and have talented weapons around me. I am very familiar with Dennison's offense and think it will maximize my abilities. I trust myself and have bet on myself before. Why not do it again as I am still going to get paid 30mil over 2 years. I want to be great and that is more important to me than going to a new city, team and system just to squeeze out a few extra million. Again, I don't pretend to know this as fact but it all seems very reasonable and plausible.
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Well I guess we'll wait and see if he can. For all the flak Dalton gets, I think he's a much better QB than TT and has a much better chance of winning a SB in his career.
Sometimes, there isn't more to winning than an uncanny knack for it. Peyton had great numbers his whole career, numbers on par with Brady, but there's a reason Brady won a ton more than him. It's hard to describe, explain or point to. But it's a clear phenomenon. I think we see a similar parallel with Alex Smith and TT. Alex Smith just wins more. The stat line doesn't say why. He just does.
I will agree that stats don't necessarily lead to wins. Cutler is an easy example for this point. But there are others. Stafford has had some pretty good qb stats but has been below average in the win/loss category. Other qbs with a worse w/l record that Taylor are Tannehill, Winston, Carr, Cousins, Bradford and Mariotta. I would think some of those teams view the above guys as franchise worthy qbs.
I don't think Taylor has been in an ideal situation as far has w/l record goes. In my opinion, he is much more of a playmaker than Dalton or Smith will ever be but he has lacked defensive support and health from his offensive skill positions. Plus, HC matters and Ryan is a proven below average HC in the league where as a guy like Smith has had Harbaugh and now Andy Reid. Is it much of a coincidence that Smith rarely won games before Harbaugh came to SF? Taylor has been pretty solid playing for a below average coach, so I definitely believe there is room for him to get to the 10 or 11 win category with a solid HC and good defense.
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Really? If TT puts out a Derek Carr 2016 esque season, you think a "significant portion" of fans wouldn't be won over? There'd be maybe 2 or 3 posters tops who would still be vocal against him.
I guess if Taylor had a season like Derek Carr or Matt Ryan then he would most likely win over the entire fan base. I just don't see that happening because Taylor is a different type of QB. He relies much more on his movement skills and many fans don't give much credit/respect to that aspect of his game and how that stresses a defense. Every qb has certain strengths and weaknesses and they all need to play to their strengths in order to perform at their best. I think Taylor will be a little better under Dennison but I would not expect a big leap in passing production. For me, Taylor has already been an effective qb (in that he extends plays wearing out a defense, can make big chunk plays, he stresses the edges of a defense, he throws a nice deep ball and he is relatively accurate while scrambling and throwing on the run). He is not and will almost certainly never be a drop back rythm/timing passer. That is not his game and an OC that would try and make Taylor into that type of passer should be fired. It would be like trying to make Tom Brady into a movement/roll out qb.
Taylor has been able to utilize his tools to lead an offense to points (even when he is often missing many of his important weapons). Taylor will never be an elite qb but he can be a solid NFL qb. Look at Andy Dalton. He has put up some good passing seasons and lead his team to the playoffs. But last year he loses many of his weapons and he is not very effective as a qb. I think Taylor has been a better overall qb than Dalton or A. Smith. He is 15-14 as a starter and that is with a below average defense, a series of significant injuries, unreliable kicking and an undisciplined coaching staff. In the right situation, Taylor can easily lead a team to 10 wins and a playoff birth. For me, that is good enough right now. If Taylor were able to get the Bills to the spot the Bengals and Chiefs have been the past few years, I would be happy. Once the Bills get to that spot and Taylor has proved he cannot lead them to the SB, then I would be looking to improve at the position (ie. what the Chiefs did by trading up).
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If Tyrod plays well and steps his game up.... he can end the playoff drought and the fighting on this message board. This board is counting on you Tyrod...no pressure.
It would be nice to have other discussions than just quarterback. However, there are a significant portion of fans that have their mind made up that Tyrod is not the answer and it would be a monumental task on his part to wins those folks over.
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Great move in building a talented front office that is young and hungry to build a winner.
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I am not sure why this is even a thing. McDermott made the decision on Taylor back in March. HC and Whaley were at odds over this issue and McDermott won out. Nothing that has happened in the past 2 months would have changed McDermott's mind on Taylor. He will be our starter this year barring injury.
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Based on many peoples expectations of 7 wins total with TT.
If the team is 3-5 mid way through the season TT will get benched. What reason would there be to keek playing him?
And Kirby, I didn't say he would but what if.
This assumes that the team's record is a result of Taylor's play (or a significant factor). If Taylor plays as well as he has the past 2 seasons, I doubt we start 3-5. Taylor has been just about a .500 QB and I have no reason to believe he will play worse this year. It also assumes that the Bills will have a legitimate backup option. Yates is not a starting QB and Peterman is a 5th round rookie. Jones will likely be a roster cut. I guess it is possible Peterman could surprise like Brady but that it a long shot as he is typically seen as a long term backup in the NFL.
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Tyrod is our starter this year and will continue to be unless he is injured.
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Here are a few thoughts regarding Taylor’s contract having skimmed through this thread:
Taylor did not just accept the Bills 2 year deal because he had no other options. If there were no other options for him in the league the Bills would have been stupid to pay him 30 million over 2 seasons (that is still a lot of $ to pay a QB that no other team wants as their starter). It is likely that Taylor looked at other options and decided that Buffalo was the best fit for him and that he could “bet on himself” again. Every player is different when it comes to contracts. Some are willing to take risks and others are not. Taylor showed that he was willing to “bet on himself” when he decided to sign with the Bills instead of Denver in 2015. He turned down more $ to sign with the Bills because this was a place he thought he could start right away and prove that he was a good QB. I believe Taylor would have been fine finishing out 2016 and becoming a free agent but the Bills wanted to protect themselves and offered a sizeable contract to Taylor, one that was hard to pass up. But even that contact gave the Bills an out after the 2016 season. Most players don’t sign such deals but Taylor gave the Bills a chance to see him for another year before deciding long-term. Again, he believed in himself and was willing to “bet on himself” that he would play well in 2016 to warrant the Bills picking up the option or being paid well by another team if the Bills declined the option. Taylor showed in 2 instances that he believed in his play and the financials would work out as a result of his on the field production.
This brings us to the 2017 deal. McDermott comes in and needs time to review Taylor. As it appears, Whaley was ready to move on from Taylor. But McDermott analyzes Taylor’s game and determines Taylor is his best option. MC has been around good qbs with McNabb and Newton so he knows what a franchise qb looks like. MC is also smart and knows leverage. He could pick up the option but why not see if a better deal can be negotiated. MC looks around the NFL at other options. This gives the Bills some leverage as they are not completely beholden to Taylor. Taylor in turn looks at the situation. In Buffalo, he gets an OC that he has a very good relationship with in Dennison. He is comfortable with the OC and the offense having been in it for a year in Baltimore. Taylor likes Dennison’s offense and believes he can excel in the system. There are some solid pieces on offense (veteran o-line, McCoy, Clay and Watkins if healthy). Taylor looks at the situation and says why not “bet on himself” again. Take a renegotiated deal that still pays him 30 million over 2 years. He is the unquestioned starter in Buffalo and will be in an offense that he is familiar with and can hit the ground running. He does not think glass half full. Taylor is not thinking about what happens if I get hurt or if I struggle. Taylor looks at it like the Bills are the best situation for him to succeed. And if he has success as a QB, the $ will always follow (whether that is here or somewhere else). So he signs the renegotiated deal rather than go to another team. The negatives with other teams would be (1) potentially rebuilding, (2) lack as many offensive weapons, (3) have a lesser O-line, (4) lack of familiarity with coaching staff and players, (5) an offensive system he may not feel is a good fit etc. Looking at the many negatives of other teams could easily lead Taylor back to wanting to stay in Buffalo and take a little less money now but with the chance to make more down the road.
This brings me to my last point about the contract. Every player is different as some players will try to negotiate every last penny from an organization while others will take less money to stay or get into a situation they feel comfortable. The examples are endless as we see Brady taking much less $ to stay in a situation he feels comfortable and allow his team to maintain an add more talent. Winning is more important than fighting for extra $. Other QBs like Flacco or even Brees chase the $ often to the detriment of their teams ability to add pieces around them. This happens at every position, not just qbs as each player is wired differently. I believe Taylor falls closer to the Brady mentality rather than Flacco. Taylor knows he spent 4 years of his career as a backup and he believes in himself. Time is short and he wants to prove that he is a good QB in the NFL. Taking another qb spot in which he would have to wait (Denver) or taking a less than ideal situation (Jets – rebuilding) is not as appealing to him. Taylor has had opportunities to chase the $ and has declined. If Taylor had that so of mentality he likely would have forced the Bills hand and went into free agency trying to maximize his salary (even if it was for another 1 or 2 million a year).
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Not interested.
What would you trade for Phil Rivers right now?
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Rivers is a statue by today's standards. This is one of his biggest liabilities at this point in his career and defenses know exactly where he will be once the ball is snapped. Brady compensates with a quicker more compact delivery as he will pick teams apart with short and intermediate throws. Rivers likes to hold onto the ball a little longer and get the ball down the field. As a result he takes more sacks and has more fumbles in the pocket. Add that with his propensity to throw interceptions and the negative plays are hard to overcome, even if he is throwing for 300+ yards a game.
I only point this out because Taylor gets a ton of heat from many posters for not winning enough games to get the Bills to the playoffs. He has a 15-14 record in his 2 years as a starting qb and during that time Rivers has managed to win only 9 games with SD. I know Rivers is a big name and it is blasphemy to criticize his play, but at what point does Rivers get his share of the blame for winning 4-5 games a year? I hear all the time that the Bills need to just get a franchise qb and then we are all set. By that standard, Rivers is no longer a franchise qb because he cannot even get close to the playoffs.
There is a new era for qbs coming and Rivers is no longer a franchise qb. He will still post some good fantasy numbers but so does Blake Bortles and he does not win either. There is more to playing qb than just putting up big passing numbers. I may be in the minority, but at this point in their careers, I truly believe that Taylor is closer to being a franchise qb than Rivers (his record is well below .500 since Tomlinson left SD at the end of the 2009 season).
Rivers is no where close to the best in 2017. If he actually was one of the best, we need to all reevaluate the importance of the qb position. Franchise qbs are supposed to equal wins and they are supposed to make everyone on the team better. If that is the case, Rivers is failing badly. He has a lot of flaws in his game right now with turnovers and lack of mobility being chief among them.