P51
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Posts posted by P51
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That was a perfectly normal football play that ended in disaster.
totally legal crack back.
You are upset because it happened to a beloved Bill.
I get it...
Its a play that the NFL is "trying" to get rid of, there is nothing "normal" about it, its an illegal hit, he was penalized for it in-game and fined for it post-game.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2016/10/27/jarvis-landry-hit-aaron-williams-nfl-unnecessary-roughness
ARTICLE 7. PLAYERS IN A DEFENSELESS POSTURE
b. Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is:
- forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, even if the initial contact is lower than the player’s neck, and regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless player by encircling or grasping him. 3. illegally launching into a defenseless opponent. It is an illegal launch if a player (i) leaves both feet prior to contact to spring forward and upward into his opponent, and (ii) uses any part of his helmet to initiate forcible contact against any part of his opponent’s body. (This does not apply to contact against a runner, unless the runner is still considered to be a defenseless player, as defined in Article 7.)
Its in the NFL rule book: http://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2016-nfl-rulebook/#article-7.-players-in-a-defenseless-posture
This (https://youtu.be/M18Oun-TXfA) hit is the definition of illegal crack back and illegal football play.
Landry knew it as he went to make the hit and after he saw the results of the hit, think he didnt want H20 afterward because he wasn't thirsty?
p.s. I hope for Williams's sake he takes his money and current health and finds a new career.
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Interesting Moton went with the next pick. I thought Rt was a bigger need, Dawkins looks to me like a guard, anyone got him as a tackle by chance?
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Jordan Willis?
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Not good asset management. Godwin still on the board.
I was secretly hoping Leroi was wrong about the trade up, even though I really like Zay, but had Goodwin rated higher and thought one would be available at 44 myself...
Would prefer Goodwin and the 3rd myself. Zay and a 4th is still decent comparably.
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Leroi said Bill's trade up possible, mentioned Zay Jones
Any thoughts on Bowser vs Cunningham ?
Bowser is more of a project at WLB in a 43 and rawer of a player in general, but I think he's a little better of a athlete and can drop down and provide a pass rush at DE, he's more diverse overall. Cunningham is a more natural and refined as a Will in the NFL coming out and has better instincts as a LB now, both can cover. Bowser has 34 type potential fwiw.
IMO
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This is the remnants of my Big Board, minus the primary corners. If they take any of these players I would call it a win.
Robinson and McDowell who would make a lot of sense I dont see with character issues and Dawkins as just a G I dont see either. Willis, Kizer, Kamara and Moton I would add the possibility list.
11 – Budda Baker (FS/CB/Sub – Washington)
12 – Forrest Lamp (G/T – W. Kentucky)
30 – Chris Goodwin (WR – Penn. St.)
33 – Tyus Bowser (34OLB/43W OLB/43DE/DPR – Houston)
35 – Marcus Williams (FS – Utah)
36 – Zay Jones (WR – E. Carolina)
40 – Curtis Samuel (WR/RB/Gadget – O.S.U.)
41 – Obi Melifonwu (S – U. Conn.)
42 – Adam Shaheen (TE – Ashland)
43 – Zach Cunningham (43W OLB/34W ILB – Vanderbilt)
47 – Josh Jones (SS/FS – N.C. St.)+ Jordan Willis (LDE - Kansas St.)
+ Deshone Kizer (QB - Notre Dame)
+ Alvina Kamara (RB - Tennessee)
+Taylor Moton (RT/G - Western Michigan)
31 – Cam Robinson (RT/G/LT – Alabama)(RF – Off Field)
50 – Dion Dawkins (G – Temple)
51 – Malik McDowell (43DT/DE/34 5DE – Michigan St.)(RF – Heart4FB?)
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Boy do you overvalue what a draft pick will get in return.
After watching the draft last night do you still feel that way?
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Another team also traded additional picks in order to get him, goes both ways. The saints didn't like him. The niners did. Neither have done a very good job of drafting in the past couple years although the niners have a new FO. Foster is definitely a risk. Maybe not worth it at 10, but well worth the risk at 27 imo. Dudes a hammer. Being a hammer might be his biggest detriment but either way, I love Foster as a football player and would've rolled the dice. We made a very safe pick. A good pick. I just don't think it will end up being the best pick. I see WLB as a major need on this team and I'm not a big fan of many WLB prospect she in the draft. Cb is a major need as well, but I thiught we could've landed a starting caliber Cb in rd 2-3. Now our WLB will likely be below average unless we can sign a FA or trade up for zach Cunningham.
I felt similarly and you know I love foster on the field. Good chance Cunningham is there at 44 IMO it's right in the wheel house for him. I do think there s still some quality at the Will, I'm a big fan of Bowser playing there, has the coverage ability, plays faster than he tested and can rush the passer too, he's my 2nd round Reddick, a little more of a projection.
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Thats what Bill is telling me anyway
Sorry brother, I'm late to the party apparently.... Is this bill from NYC we are dealing with?
Also longer really than 5'11 due to his above avg Arm length.
Now I'm with you....
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I have already voiced my concerns which have nothing to do with his leadership, smarts, or availability. Hes a decent zone cover corner. He got beat more than I would like to see a corner get beat when playing man and was saved at times by very badly thrown balls. Im not saying hes terrible, but Im not ready to anoint him as anything until I see him play against NFL talent.
You have his coverage ability backwards, he broke up over a 1/3rd of the passes his way in primarily man coverage and is a excellent man corner and gets beat more when playing off or zone coverage.
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Adams made him. Thats what
Lol, no. That is one of the most obsurd, ignorant comments I have read on this board. Really...
p.s. Really??
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Come on, what a crock of crap. Then say that about EVERY prospect on this draft. You think every one of the players didn't play with other talented people on the roster around them? To act like White had success because Adams bailed him out is absurd. The kid can ball.
#truth, watch White vs. Amari Cooper a couple years ago (2014 I believe), White mirrored him all over the field and did an excellent job in tight man coverage. They left him on an island 1v1 vs a top 10 WR and he won more often than not, "the kid can ball" agreed #watchthetape...
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Next year, with an extra #1, this will feel a lot better.
Yes it will.
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Mine too, if he were 3 inches taller he'd be a consideration at 10.
Sadly enough I agree, someone is getting a steal of he's drafted in the 2nd. A steal period, he's what people think Peppers is.
Bolles
Yup
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I like Stewart in the 3rd, Quincy in the 2nd but don't think he'll be there, I like Witherspoon but his run support is none existent so I dont think he fits, McGuire and Lee are guys I like in day 3 as possibilities... Good stuff, like the players especially Wilsons fit.I just think the next Jarvis Landry is Ardarius Stewart. Love the way he plays the game.
Quincy Wilson CB would be great in McDs system same with Witherspoon CB from Colorado.
I also like Elijah McGuire RB from U LALA
Marquel Lee can play too but he may be a late 3rd 4th rd pick due to 4.7 speed
Just a few guys no one is talking about
i'm not even go any farther than the 1st page. if i'm not stealing trubisky with a trade to the bears, i would stay put and take foster. if he is gone,i look to trade down. if we can't trade and foster is there.....oh fog it there's only 1 to 2 hours left.
? Isn't that kind of what happened??? Foster gone, Tru gone, traded back...
Not a big fan of Hooker. Yeah he plays centerfield pretty well.
But he's not great against the run, withvthat being said he was a one year starter and got injured which required surgery. I'll take J Jones from NC State or S Williams from Utah later on
I love Williams myself, talk about under rated... Hooker IMO is a game wrecker defensively, not strong in run support but aweful, lots of room for improvement.
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SF and Buff won't get that for their picks.
Why on Earth would Houston give up their first pick in 2018 in that deal?
I thought SF took bellow market value and Houston is a QB away from competing legitimately for a Super Bowl, the clock is ticking for OBrien IMO and that trade seems to be a fair market deal comparing what teams moving up that far have paid, they don't have the picks this year without trading away the entire draft and a pick next year,it's not a small jump.
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If we stayed at 10 I think Malik Hooker could fall to us. Otherwise I like whoever they have higher between Davis or Williams at WR. If they trade back I think one of those WR's will still be there so if they think they are pretty close talent wise then trade back. It really depends on how it plays out and who comes off the board before they pick at 10 to see if it's worth trading back
I would love Hooker at 10, if they were to pass on him there it would be a mistake IMO. I'd take Davis at 10 and not look back, adding draft pick depth and a future 1st was really the only reason I trade back in this scenario, I also think Ross is high on their board and a trade back fall back pick, if Williams or Davis was there it would be a no brainner. Lots of holes and lots of quality depth in this draft, but I personally would trade back unless a top 5 guy falls, adding an extra second would be huge as I see it.
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mocks with trades make zero sense, it's just a fantasy world. In my mock I'd trade back 3x, pick up a 1st next year and 3 more 2s, then draft half the players I like with no regard for whether they would realistically be on the board at that time anyway.
Thanks for the insight... "Cool story bro"
Don't mind the trade down
But I might go Bolles, Z Jones and Tim Williams
Look for CB in rd 3
Fair enough, Bolles like Lamp was a thought at 25, just had a higher value on Ross, I think CB in 3 is highly likely myself. I think Zay goes before 44, if not I'd love him at that spot if they go elsewhere in round 1. Williams doesn't seem like a McDermott guy, but as a DPR it makes sense value wise, a better combine would have helped his stock.
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I'd love to get that much in a trade back scenario! But the players would be a total dud. We need a WR and S. I like the safety from Washington in round 2 and whoever is left at WR from the top guys, maybe the guy from Penn State
Baker and Goodwin were both gone before the Bills picked in the 2nd round... Who would you take in the 1st? Baker, the safety from Washington? If Ross's medical is a concern I'd take either Baker or Goodwin at 25 myself potentially.
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Boy do you overvalue what a draft pick will get in return.
Which pick?
Isn't Lamp projected to move to guard in the NFL due to frame concerns? How would he help at RT?
He held his own at LT in college including against everything Alabama threw at him, I think Tackle in the NFL is a real possibility for him, guard he should be able to handle regardless, arm length seems to be the biggest concern.
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....certainly like the trade down package but not a WR in the 1st.....Zay Jones in the 2nd perhaps.........maybe Lamp at 25 if Kujo is a big question mark.............
Lamp is in my top 15 players, he was a thought at right tackle at pick 25. I'd buy Lamp at 25 though. Ross and Watkins force 2 deep safeties and dictate coverage opening up a lot for the whole offense.... Leroi said he's in play at 10, getting him at 25 could be quite a coup I would think.
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A couple of good thoughts there. Budda Baker?!?!?!?!?
Would be a great nickel for us, one of my favorite players...
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Not a fan
Of what part(s)?
get your bucket ready
I think this might not be a popular mock or real draft myself for most Bills fans....
all that wheelin' and dealin' and that's what you came up with? No thanks.
Positions? Players? What don't you like or what would you have done?
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That's the way the cookie crumbled, WR, WLB/DPR, TE in the first 2 rounds, and a extra 2018 1st.Ross Bowser Shaheen, eh?
Just hope Ross doesn't come down with Goodwinitis. Or TJGrahamitis - even worse.
Edit: Ross is actually a football player.
Aaron Williams
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
No problem, violence is part of the game for sure, naturally its a violent sport, and it is being regulated to a certain extent. IMO the problem is when hits like this happen and are not "part of the game". I have never seen or heard of a coach teaching stalk blocking to a WR and telling him: "Dont break down and strike (Hands) the DB's chest and utilize attitude and effort, oh no, rather leave your feet, launch your head/shoulder into the DB's head and neck area, now that's how you stalk block!!" No coach in his right mind, nor any I have ever been around from Pee Wee to the Pro's have ever coached the latter, none, its an unnatural act within the sport to the best of my knowledge. That is not what any player on the giving or receiving end signs up for.
It reminds me of a conversation I had with a random guy at a hockey Carolina game a couple years after the Bertuzzi/Moore incident and I was so dumbfounded I couldnt respond. This guy says to me something to the affect: "Moore signed up for it (referring to Bertuzzi attacking Moore from behind and ultimately ending his career), they fight in hockey and its a violent sport, its just hockey (kinda like its a "hockey play")." WTF??? There was nothing related to the sport in that incident either...
Aaron Williams and Steve Moore did not sign up for either of the things that happened to them in regards to these situations, Williams did "sign up" for the tackle on Edleman that injured his neck, that is a freakish type thing that happens with in the natural context of the game IMO.
No worries, I only watched it again to make sure I remembered it as it was. I stopped playing in college partially, as the result of a similar hit (personal protector on punt, freshman hotshot decided he wasnt going to block and two guys crushed me at the same time, left their feet connected with my head/neck/chest area instead of blocking the punt), the resulting concussion and neck/back issues was a huge factor in my deciding to stop playing. I've never watched it, get the same taste thinking about it having happened, even though I do not remember much of that afternoon or evening.
I really think they should have a rule like they do in college for "targeting", make it an official rule, 15 yard penalty regardless. Review it "intention" and if its deemed intentional (there is some grey area but that can be figured out) automatic ejection and what I would do if I was the NFL is review it at the league level for a multi-game suspension depending on the hit itself and I agree that would go a long way toward ending it.
I would factor into would be the "football play" part of it, like a receiver dropping his head at the last second bracing for the hit and the defender not having time to adjust, that to me is natural part of the game and would not deserve a suspension. A $24K fine is light pat on the @$$ for Landry, barely punitive at all IMO, and a ejection, maybe meeting with the league and reviewing the hit and a subsequent suspension and missing game checks makes me think maybe Landry fits up Williams the right way which is taught and thinks twice about launching himself at the head/neck area of a defenseless player. That is if the NFL is truely "serious" about player safety IMO.
I agree completely that the sport is violent enough naturally and there are too many injuries that occur within the natural state of the game and the extra curricular stuff needs to be gone, one way or another.