P51
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official time of 4.43, plus the fact that Jaylon Smith is a no-go in the 1st? Yeah, he's a top 15 pick. This year's Shazier.
No doubt now, I didn't see the official time, but that only enhances his stock.
What do you think about Spence? I think he just dropped into the 2nd myself.
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Only been vouching for Lee for months. In this day and age of football you need guys like him more than Ragland. He is gonna blow up this combine
I'll keep agreeing with you on this, I think he locked up a top 20 spot replacing Jaylon Smith in the top 20, doubt he makes it to 19 after today. 😕
Better time for Ragland than I thought. Expected him to run 4.8
I was surprised, I was expecting a 4.9+ and Brandon Spikes like fall. He moved up on my board, #pleasantlysurprised
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Perfect assessment of him. I do have a legitimate fear that his career will be a short one unless he plays with more control. He's shown that he can tackle, just not consistently.
I'd anticipate that he tests pretty well in Indy. Brings a ton of versatility. That FG block vs Lafayette, his balance is ridiculous.
Thank you!
I try... Agreed on the control part 100% in addition to improving his tackling in general.He reminds me of Gerrod Holliman a little, only I think he gives a much better effort all the time.
If he doesn't refine his control, tackling technique and ability, I agree that hes looking at a short career, although his versatility of being able to play CB could give him a 2nd/3rd chance.
I had not seen his block vs. Lafayette, heard about it, so I googled it and boy does he run the arc beautifully!! What a block, so fluid and the balance is ridiculous, a great play, so athletic. Thank you for pointing that out.
Here it is if anyone else wants to take a look; about the 3 minute mark:
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If you have a spare half hour, this is must watch stuff - http://draftbreakdown.com/players/deandre-houston-carson
The kid could be so damn good. My #2 safety behind Ramsey.
Really like DHC as a pass defender.
There are a few size-related flags for me: the relatively small frame, very short arms, and very small hands worry me with regard to getting off blocks and bringing down backs.
Very intriguing prospect for sure
Carson might be the 2nd best cover safety behind Ramsey, I have him as a FS at the next level and has good man cover skills (former 3 year CB) and reads the QB's eyes very well on the back end most of his picks come from bad throws due to pressure where he is following the QB's eyes. Good zone defender especially in the back end in C2, and I would think C1 as the SHS as well. Could play CB in the NFL IMO.
His tackling technique is raw to say the least, he lunges a lot, loses his balance especially at the contact point and gets knocked backwards constantly giving up yards after contact. He gives up outside leverage in run support more than I like and takes bad angles when coming up from the secondary in run support, almost like he is out of control, excited or undisciplined in doing so. He can not be counted on to make the stop in the open field.
He's a potential special teams ace, impact defender on blocking punts and kicks, as well as in the coverage game itself.
If we lose Rambo in FA and get this guy in the 3rd, preferably 4th round, I would be thrilled. I have seen him play in person 3 times over the last 4 years and IMO he has NFL coverage ability as a FS.
I see him as the Ying to Landon Collins Yang... If you will.
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Here is my try for today. At first blush it appears unrealistic. But, http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings has Wright as a 3rd round prospect. And Nkemdiche was viewed by some as "overranked" prior to his falling out of a hotel window high/drunk.
19: R1P19OLB NOAH SPENCE (pass rusher we need)EASTERN KENTUCKY49: R2P18DT ROBERT NKEMDICHE (top round talent who falls due to character concerns. Rex won't care.)OLE MISS80: R3P17OLB SCOOBY WRIGHT (injury concerns, plus Arizona's "scheme" cause him to fall. Not great in coverage, but otherwise solid)ARIZONAThats a high end bust/boom type of draft, Spence might be drug free, but the Alcohol incident with him last May(?) IMO does not help his addiction issues or help his case that he is past that, I know people are high on him now, but teams will not even have him on their boards. Nkediche reminds me of someone who is good at football, but doesnt love it. Wright is almost the opposite, love the game understands it, but at the next level might not be able to hang athletically.
I could see that being the type of a draft that gets a GM fired. Or... If they all play up to their potential (exceed for Scooby) and maintain off the field, it could be a grand slam type or draft...
My .02, do with it as you will
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I like it. My only concern with D. Lee is that (and I have not seen him play) he seems too small. Perhaps someone who watches a ton of CFB can do a comparison of him to Spence?
I like this one. Rankins likely goes in the first round. Haven't seen many people taking him here, but he would add a ton of value to the line. My only question (again, don't watch a ton of CFB) is would Perry be able to step in right away? Although perhaps T. Stewart can? I think we need a LB from somewhere who can play day 1.
IMO Lee vs. Spence - Lee covers slot receivers, backs and TE's, very athletic can change direction and run with about anyone, can blitz, needs tackling work, a LB/DB hybrid type, a bigger Deone Bucannon (Arizona S turned LB) type guy, Ryan Shazier (Pittsburgh)-esque if you will, makes plays all over the field. Spence is a DE/LB hybrid-EDGE type, high motor, no experience in coverage, and is mostly an pass rusher who can give high effort vs. the run. Lee vs. Spence = Coverage + vs. Pass Rushing...
I personally see Perry as a Sam or Mike backer, who can start day 1, for us I believe he could play a/the Mike backer and contribute day 1.
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I'm hoping we might have some hot takes on this? Anyone got one?!?
McCoy is trying to facilitate his way out of Buffalo and back to Philly now that Chip is gone...
Even better, McCoy is trying to fight his way out of Buffalo!
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Who was a slam dunk top 10 pick / potential top 5 pick before the injury. Drafting a guy solely based upon filling a need or only worrying about production in year 1 is how bad teams stay bad.
Preach on brother!!
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I got this one today useing Drafttek as the board on fanspeaks:
19: R1P19ILB REGGIE RAGLANDALABAMA49: R2P18OLB NOAH SPENCEE KENTUCKY80: R3P17DE SHELDON RANKINSLOUISVILLE114: R4P19WR BRAXTON MILLEROHIO STATE144: R5P17DT HASSAN RIDGEWAYTEXAS174: R6P17PK ROBERT AGUAYOFLORIDA STIf it actually played out that way, I would dig it, and the 1st 2 picks are possible, it certainly would revamp the front 7 in one draft. But I'd bet my left nut Rankins goes in the 1st, 2nd at the latest at this point, given he doesnt get pop'd for drugs, beat his girlfriend or something along those lines in the mean time.
I love Ridgeway at NT in the 5th, I have a 3rd-4th round grade on him now, strong at the POA, would need some development, but could learn on the job I think and contribute early on 1st and 2nd down.
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Uh oh....please sign Gilmore ASAP before his INT stats go through the roof!
That was my exact thought when I read the title of this thread! Might as well extend Darby too...
I saw Kap play live in St. Louis on MNF is 14', it was the most unimpressive 31-17 win ever for a QB throwing 300+ yards and 3 TD's, I have seen. I moved to endzone seats in the 3rd Quarter from the 50 and saw the same thing, he stares down receivers badly (I counted only 6 times he looked at his 2nd target and my buddy had 5, out of 35? throws). If Austen Davis wasn't the QB for the Rams, Janoris Jenkins doesnt blow coverage and allow Brandon Loyd to catch a 80 yard bomb right before half time, and the 49ers defense returning a pick 6 in the final minute to ice the game, Kap likely loses to a really young Rams team. St. Louis got no pressure on Kap,keyed in on the run game too much and was in it till the end.
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this is pretty spot on. I would add that he plays his best in big games. As a redshirt freshman he was defensive MVP in the semifinal last year vs Bama and IMO was the best defender on the field vs Oregon in the national title game. That trend continued this year. He's a baller. But all of those "rawness" attributes are there. He needs time to bulk up and develop. Though he's actually bigger than Shazier was he declared. My guess is he goes at the bottom of the first as a luxury pick to a good team like Seattle where he becomes all pro in 2-3 years.
An all-pro in 2-3 years? Sounds like someone we would pass on... Lol
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perry has a ton of film and vs. very good competition. The senior bowl may have given him some highlights but he's someone teams probably won't move up or down too much. His interviews will be amazing. He is one of the smartest and high character college players I've met. I would say an important area for him will be his 40 time at the combine, so he will need to rest up that groin.
Very true, I just like seeing them play/practice vs. equal competition across the board. His football speed for me on tape is fine, I love how over rated the 40 yard dash is at the combine (it can be trained for), but it certainly is a measuring stick used by all teams.
Agreed on resting up the groin and the importance of the 40 time for him to move up boards (I dont think it will hurt him unless he runs a 5+ second), selfishly I dont want him to run too fast, so the Bills have a better shot at him in the 2nd round. He seems to "check" all the boxes at this point IMO.
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Yeah, Lee is still really raw. Declared too early. I've got him as a 3rd round 4-3 WILL.
He's got potential but there's quite a few guys I have ahead of him because they're more likely to get a quick return on investment.
I'm going to get to Josh Perry next week. Was gutted he pulled out of the Senior Bowl.
3rd round? Wow...
Thats Christian Kirksey/Kevin Pierre-Louis territory.
Are short term returns better than long term gains?
I was really excited to watch Perry compete in the Sr. Bowl, groin injuries are rough but it was disappointing none the less for sure.
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just had an argument with another OSU fan about Lee. I said I wouldn't take him til the 2nd and he says I'm an idiot, the dude can run and he's Shazier 2.0. But he can't tackle, I said. But he can RUN and cover. Ok then. It's a passing league I guess.
Im not giving him Shazier 2.0 (I dont think Lee's ceiling is that high), Shazier could run, cover, tackle, diagnose, and Lee certainly needs to improve in the tackling category, but thats an improvable skill, athleticism is not. Lee certainly could use some seasoning, but the draft rarely in itself comes with quick fixes. -
Not sure why you believe that...is there anything that makes you believe that he can't learn to cut down his steps on the field? Drop better in coverage? Get better at reading offenses?
I agree with gonzo (I'd take Lee over Ragland myself)...
IMO Ragland is not going to get more athletic, he's already good at reading offenses, making defensive adjustments and not taking false steps, he can get better in his drops, but he's not suddenly going to learn how to run with backs and athletic TE's, or slot WR's because right now, because IMO he does not have physical ability to do so.
Hence forth, Ragland IMO as well is who he is and close to his ceiling, which for what he is, is high (starting 2 down ILB in the NFL) but I am not buying he's a true 3 down LB yet, from what I've seen not "twitchy" enough, nor does he have the CoD skills. Although he did look a little better than I thought in the senior bowl practices I have seen.
Im hoping Jaylon Smith falls because of injury concerns and the medical checks out (which would really nullify the concerns) and Buffalo has a chance and takes it on him, short term yes, he may miss a season, long term it could be the steal of the 16' draft.
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Strong endorsement; "He's 260 pounds, so the question is, can he play on third down, can he play the passing game? I think he can. Just because of his leadership skills, his toughness, I think he's going to be a three-down linebacker and a top-20 pick." but that's 2 "thinks" about coverage and being a 3 down guy... Not sure he's done his HW yet, it'll be interesting to see if his tune changes as the process plays out.
Is being able to cover required to be a top 20 pick at ILB?
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Jones is a little different because he's not really an urban Meyer QB. He wasn't recruited by Urban and isn't his type of QB. Tom Herman established a specific offense to fit Jones' strengths for the playoffs last year. When he Herman went to Houston this year, Urban wanted to run his own offense and Jones was not a fit. Urban didn't want to adapt to the QB because the team is built around a certain system and he has the perfect QB to run it in JT... so he didn't. That does not obviously mean I think that Jones can read an NFL defense at this time. He was not required to read one in the playoffs last year or in the games he played in this year. It will be a projection that he can learn that - likely discussed at length in pre draft interviews. But he's not an urban Meyer QB. He would never have seen the field unless Braxton and JT both got hurt and urban didn't want to burn a redshirt of one of his guys for the playoffs.
He has NFL traits that I think a coach who fancies himself a QB developer like Arians will want to develop. Maybe Roman too.
Personally, I would love to see Jones in Buffalo as a developmental QB via an 4th or 5th round pick.
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Anyone have insight on Kentrell Brothers, ILB, Mizzou?
Looks like he had solid production but might not be a scheme fit.
From what I have seen; Classic Thumper type at ILB, I see Brandon Spikes in him and my evaluation so far is about identical. Eyes' on defender, always around the ball, good awareness and recognition/diagnostic skills, instinctive and little wasted movement or false steps. Although he drops his head more than one would like, solid wrap up tackler for the most part who will go for the big hit when possible, but not out of control in doing so. More football player than athlete, better moving forward than backward, no long speed and short area quickness/athleticism is limited, he's an inside the hash backer, who is not chasing down many backs outside the hashes. His CoD skils are limited as are his man coverage ability, he could cover Fred Jackson... He does do a good job of sifting through traffic and finding ball carriers and shows an understanding of zone coverage into the intermediate area of the field. I actually do not see him being all that different than Ragland, less physical, but Brothers skill set is not far behind Ragland IMO.
IMO: 2 down run defender and a 2nd round pick at best in todays NFL, with 3rd-4th round being most likely.
Edit: I dont think he's a great scheme fit and not worth picking for the Bills early unless he's there in the 5th round range myself.
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You can certainly make a case for him in the 1st given prior years. If Manuel, Ponder, Locker, Gabbert can be 1st rounders so can Carson. From that standpoint, I totally get it. I just don't know that I'm comfortable with him being talked up as a high pick in the 1st given the obstacles he has to overcome. It's not just Carson either, I probably won't have a first round grade on any QB this year.
Given the scheme he played in and the lack of experience, fit matters for him so much. Circumstances have to be perfect for him. As I said, Dallas would be okay from a circumstanial POV. I think Buffalo and Denver are the other ones that make a ton of sense. NDSU have a similar multiple run, run to set up the pass scheme to Greg Roman and his skill set is very Kubiak-friendly. Even if he has to play early, Kubiak can allow him to move the pocket and simplify his reads while he develops.
I like the kid but I'm not sure he's a sure thing. If he's on the board at 19, I think you have to at least consider it but it needs to be with a plan in mind.
Initially in his career, I could not agree more.
I do think long term, his passing skills translate to a high threshold and like Newton can develop into a true pocket passing QB, but unlike Newton who I thought could develop pocket passing skills because of his game tape vs. higher level comp, that tape vs. higher comp doesnt exist with Wentz, hence the rub for me moving forward and why the senior bowl is a huge measuring stick for him IMO.
I've seen enough at his current level to believe he can make the adjustments needed at the next level, so I feel comfortable giving him a high 1st round grade today (the process is young, so things change), but could see why others would not.
I think that having a plan for him, and young QB's in general is crucial. I hate, yet love comparisons, but I think evaluating him individually first is more important than anything.
What do you see his ceiling being?
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Yes! Pass rushers from both sides and LBs who can cover.
Dont forget 3 CB's who can cover, Ward at safety played as well as could be expected and as a unit did a phenomenal job on Gronk and Edelman.
That was a clinic in secondary play that is being over shadowed by the absurd performance of the front 6, who played lights out as mentioned! Lot of outside the box coverages moving/imixing guys around and a great game plan called by Wade Phillips who utilized all his personnel as well as I have ever seen, against Brady.
Belichick, went for the win and outside of Gronkowski going all superman in the 4th quarter the Pats offense nothing going for them all game. I dont think he lost the game any more than Denver's defense won the game, I dont know that he had much of a choice given the flow of the game in terms of going for it in the 4th, I thought it was repeatedly the right call.
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I don't understand why guys like Amari Cooper and Landry are making it at WR instead of Sammy Watkins.
Because of stats, not ability. Sammy is as deserving if not more. Circumstance just did not dictate it at this point.
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He's just not good enough to be a 1st round QB. The infatuation with skyrocketing QB value will raise expectation and it might destroy his career.
If he's going anywhere in the 1st, Dallas is the spot. Established QB in place. If he's called into action early, he'll get good protection. I just fear that he'll end up somewhere that'll play him from Day 1 and he'll struggle.
I would disagree that Wentz is not good enough to be a 1st round QB, IMO he's the most talented of the group overall from a overall skill set, intangible and physically mature standpoint. His ceiling looks like the highest of the prospects at this point.
JMO, he's certainly raw and not a year 1 starter in the NFL, with a steep learning curve coming from the FCS level. Long term, he's got everything one would want talent wise, the tools are there to develop. That step from the FCS to the NFL is a big one and I see that being the difference between him and say Cam Newton in terms of coming in and competing year one. Year two would be a better projection for him competing and starting his development IMO.
I agree expectations will impact his career early good or bad and he'll struggle early, he will benefit from having an entrenched starter in place so he can follow the Aaron Rodgers career path developmentally. Patience in the NFL certainly is lacking...
Long term, he's a 1st round QB, Dallas would be wise to take advantage of this chance to grab a QB while they are in this fortuitous position. So hopefully they do not, lol.
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"You and Palpatine are going to get 5 more easy..."
That's great stuff right there!!
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19: R1P19DE DEFOREST BUCKNEROREGON49: R2P18OLB DARRON LEEOHIO ST80: R3P17OLB JOSHUA PERRYOHIO STATE114: R4P19DE SHELDON RANKINSLOUISVILLE144: R5P17WR BRAXTON MILLEROHIO STATE
This draft would be phenomenal, amazing and utterly spectacular! I don't see it happening on a hot day in hell (what do I know?), but good lord that would be awesome!
2016 Draft LB thread
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
It is the lying season, personally I don't listen much to what NFL personnel say after The New Year. With Spence however, his history coupled with his disappointing athletic performance today confirms his 2nd round grade for me.
I think he's more probable for Buffalo in the 2nd than Lee in the first in terms of being available.
FO guys turn into sleezy car salesman at this time of year...