TPS
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Posts posted by TPS
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A very interesting piece by a former DIA analyst on the selling of the war by the VP's office. It's long, but worth the read; unless you have already...
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did you read the article?
Here's the nugget:
"Nonetheless, the forged documents appeared, on the face of it, to shore up the case for war, and to discredit Wilson. The origin of the forgeries is therefore of real importance, and any link between the forgeries and Bush administration aides would be highly damaging and almost certainly criminal."
Yes, I believe it was Elbaradei who said they were forgeries back in 2003; however, this article indicates the forgeries may have ties back to the White House. Do you think that's not news now either?
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Interesting UPI article speculating on the direction Fitzgerald is going. You couldn't write a novel this good...
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for next FED chairman.
On the one hand, I think he's made a good choice; on the other, if he makes a poor choice like Miers and SC, the financial markets would've reacted negatively and forced him to re-think.
Didn't want to disappoint anyone and give only a positive bush response...
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It's ok dn, once you give up the party's kool-aid you really will feel much better. The best thing about it is that you can start to reply with real aguments again, instead of "Enquirer-type" responses...
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Apparently the Neocons are losing friends...
This liberal is almost starting to feel sorry for Bush....almost....
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No, but I think it's been taken to a more extreme level these guys. I recently read an article with a list of long-time government professionals who have resigned from various departments because of this increased degree of partisan political appointees, and the ineptitude of these appointees.
As for KRC's comment, read a few more threads here and see who has responded with "but Clinton/Dems were worse." In fact, all you need to do is read the second response in the "Plamegate" thread....
As I've said many times, many of the right-wingers on this board act just like some of the Clinton supporters did here prior to Bush--"My man can do no wrong." You end up saying the darndest things when you constantly defend these idiots--politicians, although it could apply to you righties....
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Heh, looks like we're in for another round of definition of "is."
Note that not a single reporter has testified that they first heard about Plame's identity from either Rove or Libby. We probably won't find out until Deep Throat II has alzheimers and his kids need money.
BTW, an interesting tidbit in today's WSJ said that while CIA requested an investigation of the leak, it has not conducted a damage assesment on the potential trouble to its operatives that the said leak would have caused, which I understand is standard procedure in all leak cases.
From the article:
"In part, the weight of an indictment on leaking classified information could depend on whether the exposure of Ms. Plame caused damage. That isn't clear. Damage-assessment reports commonly are done when such leaks occur, but congressional staffers say they haven't seen any such document related to this investigation.
The CIA did produce an initial report to see if assets were in danger or needed to be moved, a government official said. But that didn't take the form of a formal report to Congress, as has occurred in bigger espionage matters."
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There is a major difference between "Government" and "This Administration".
Is our government inept? sure...but not for the reasons you give.
Until a "911" type event happens again I am not sure how you can complain about what the current administration has done to prevent another one from happening.
Katrina was a good example of the ineptitude of "this government." He didn't say "the government," it was THIS GOVERNMENT. These people are more concerned that you pass their political test than be competent--and I'm talking about the appointees who "manage" the departments, not the folks who actually do the work. Here's a little snippet for you:
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"If there is a nuclear terrorist attack or a major pandemic ... you are going to see the ineptitude of this government in a way that'll take you back to the declaration of independence."
From the interview with Larry Wilkerson, former chief of staff to Colin Powell.
This reminds of something I've been reading and thinking about, how poorly this administration has reacted to 911, and ensuring that it doesn't happen again. It seems almost every appointment made in every department is some political hack who gave the right amount of money, and passed their political Litmus test. This is the last I want for the department of Homeland Security. About the most efficient thing this administration has done is to make sure the billions of dollars allocated to boost and improve security goes to their constituents. Katrina provided another test/opportunity for this administration to show how they've improved our security and response to disasters, and I can't say they passed the test.
These guys are a joke; and unfortunately, the American people are the butt of it...
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A couple of resonses to some throughout this thread:
1. It was the CIA that requested Justice to investigate the leak, so it's not some political witch hunt. In addition, Why would the CIA ask for an investigation if they didn't think there was a violation? Does it matter whether the source was an act/law/bill?
As for the credibility of Wilson (and this is the first time I've read someone question his wife's credibility too--only at PPP...), the administration admitted that the Niger data should not have been in the SOU address, which supports Wilson's claim. Didn't Tenet even take the blame?
As for "editorials" from conservatives that claim Wilson lied, I can also provide "editorials" that claim he didn't. For example:
I'm not trying to defend Wilson per se, rather that fact that the right, center, left or whatever can provide us with any slant they want. Seems to me though, the right is saying Wilson lied, and at the same time saying the administration either exaggerated or "miscommunicated."
Can't have it both ways...
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The plot thickens....
"So determined was the ring of top officials to win its argument that it morphed into a virtual hit squad that took aim at critics who questioned its claims, sources told the Daily News.
One of those critics was ex-Ambassador Joseph Wilson, who debunked a key claim in a speech by President Bush that Iraq sought nuclear materials in Africa. His punishment was the media outing of his wife, CIA spy Valerie Plame, an affair that became a "side show" for the White House Iraq Group, the sources said. "
Looks like Judy Miller was part of the PR process to get us into war!
Gee, I wonder where the so-called "facts" came from that debunked Wilson???
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The laws about outing a covert spy have these two provisions:
1) the person's status still has to be covert and
2) It has to be within 5 years of the end of their covert activities.
Plame stopped being a covert agent in the 90s. I have read that her cover was blown by the Swiss government. They act as our liason to the Cuban giovernment and some docs they had inadvertently gotten named her. It is also believed that Plame's name was on a list spies that I think Aldrich Ames had. It was known around the cocktail party circuit that Plame WAS a spy and now worked openly at Langley. She even told that herself. Therefore there is no violation of this law by Rove, Libbey, people at the White House,Novak or the other journalists. Why Miller stayed in jail is a mystery?- Book deal?
There is nothing here, just a partisan witch hunt. In their bid to find anything on Bush, the dems show their desperation and dig a bigger hole for themselves.
Here's a timeline which appears to try and keep any political judgment out.
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To me, this should be a non-story. Facts as we know it is that Joe Wilson lied, was caught in that lie, and has been swepped under the rug. The pending charges are unlikely to be about outing a CIA agent, as she wasn't undercover when she was "outed." This could be the Martha Stewart charges - saying one thing to the investigators and someone else saying something else - obstruction of justice.
As to your main point, I cannot imagine the administration trying to discredit a source they know is wrong about a topic that they're trying to sell to the people.
I think you have your facts wrong. What appears to be coming out of this investigation is that Wilson was correct, and the administration engaged in a dirty tactics campaign to discredit him--probably the articles you refer to as "facts." One of those dirty tactics was the outing of his wife, which is what's being investigated by Fitzgerald. If the facts are that she "wasn't undercover" when she was outed, I don't think there would've been an investigation in the first place.
At any rate, we disagree on the facts; but those facts should be made public shortly.
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Maybe Sandy Berger stuffed more classified documents down his pants that we know about?
Maybe former Sen Torricelli of NJ could help. You remember him who gave the NYT the name of a CIA informant, causing him and his family to go into hiding since 1995. Ahh, the "Torch", the guy who caused the CIA to recruit only lily-white spies, and who left the Senate before he faced charges.
Ron Brown? Naah. Dead; can't help. Vinnie Foster? Uh-uh - remarkable guy though - said to have committed suicide, but somehow tossed the gun 150 feet or so.
You wouldn't be talking about the info the Bush adm. got from the Clinton adm? Let's not forget that in '98, Bill sought and got a law from Congress...
"SUMMARY:
(REVISED AS OF 10/05/98 -- Passed House, amended)
Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 - Declares that it should be the policy of the United States to seek to remove the Saddam Hussein regime from power in Iraq and to replace it with a democratic government. "
http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/US/Legislation/ILA.htm
Er...The impeachment wasn't about sex. I believe it was lying under oath.
What do you know, the old, "but they were worse" response....
Or is it, "I'm rubber, you are glue..." response?
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It's a rhetorical question; I know the answer...
Apparently someone high in the administration could be going down for this--the outing of a CIA agent. However, it appears that the investigation also leads to the "selling" of the Iraq war to the American people--that is, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al knew much of their information was dubious, but used it anyway to trump up a case for the war.
I'm sure some here will argue this is as trivial as trying to impeach a president for a blow job.....
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This is a question for anyone who tapes the games. My guess is that it's a combination of Schobel and Anderson, since it seems nearly all of the big runs have come from that side. I saw Denney in for Schobel a couple of times too.
LBs at fault too? Can it be fixed with the personnel we have? If we can't stop the run, I can't see too many more wins coming...
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Well, it must be a scandal if Fox carried it...
Just typifies what will end up as one of the worst presidencies in history. Seems many on the right are jumping ship after his latest bad decisions; never happen here though. Someone needs to start posting the anti-"Bush Bad" post--
"Bush can do no wrong."
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I thought this was a thread about Larry Franklin spying for israel, but i should know better...
It keeps getting better....
in Politics, Polls, and Pundits
Posted
whoa! YOU actually call it a "cabal in the White House& Pentagon"?
Next we're going to hear about how you never believed the Neocons to begin with...