enlightener
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Posts posted by enlightener
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So you are trying to kill us all, by trolling?
) BTW if you'd rather have Stevie than Welker (look at the contract #s for one thing) you are an idiot ~ credit goes to DC Tom I guess since I used it. Lets see how Welker looks with out Brady, I bet it aint bad (and ya I know Manning but I have a feeling he will get injured, I mean come on it;s Denver 
umm yes id rather have sj than welker, so would many fans of the bills, welker is a quick midget living off of brady, catching short cear out patterns on a great team with a great system, so he has numbers with no real talent aside from being open and good hands. Again that is two thirds of being a true 1. At least SJ has size but welkers sure hands make it close. But isnt welker old? so im the idiot here?
I stopped reading right there.
I would think you know there are 32 teams in today's NFL.
maybe read the whole post containing things like logic and facts and see how your tunnel vision might change.
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this---^
Just close your lame thread dude. You've been here for 8 months, have 32 posts (half if them in this thread) and don't know how to use the search function.
This topic has been argued for years now in multiple threads. And points have been made that were much stronger than yours to show that Stevie is not a "#1 WR". At the end of the day, he most definitely is a #1 WR not only on this team but would be in others as well. He is the only Buffalo Bill to ever record 3 straight seasons of 1,000+ yards. He is on pace to surpass all receiving records held by Buffalo WRs. He loves this city and is generally a good guy (if you don't get offended by fake military shirts or TD dances). Or maybe your still butthurt that he dropped an easy TD catch against Pittsburgh. News flash guy, many "ELITE WRs" drop sure TD passes. Happens all the time. Hell, even Calvin Johnson has had his fare share of them, including a stupid mistake that cost his team a game as well. Or how about Desean Jackson showboating and dropping the ball at the 1 yard line? It happens.
But keep thinking what you want. Even the posters on here that agree that Stevie isn't that great are arguing with you. It must suck when you put all that time into a (in your mind) well thought out post only to get crap from everyone. Just take your defeat and close the thread. Nobody here is agreeing with you.
youre just wrong as could be. His drop percentage is close to number one in the nfl for a couple seasons now, fact. He is not fast, fact. I like him and stated it, fact, but hes not a number one in the way I and many other define the word.. . Hes only the bills #1. dropping game winners is pretty important too imo and in many others opinion.
Actually my thread brought all the homers and cool aid drinkers out of the wood work. Im no troll and have watched the bills for 30 years now, I just dont get into immature love affairs with average players and pretend they are better than they really are just because theyre bills. I also dont call people stupid, and idiots when they dont agree even if they have totally illogical arguments like"3 straight years of 1000 yards" which you have now admitted are a basis for ultimate worship. Many people read my take and moved on in silent argreement. Only the jilted SJ lovers cant help respond with factless, statless, exampless responses saying Im stupid....
Really? Im the stupid one?
I guess 20th rated WRs with big drops and big penalties and slow 40 yard dashes are just waiting for a great qb to make them what? faster?
I would say his newest leg injury wont really matter since he doesnt beat anyone deep anyway, what does it matter on a 5 yard slant you just run in front of the QB and catch it so no story there. But his triple head fake will be incredible in the next loss to the jets where he "owns" Revis with 3 catches for 65 yards and 0 TD's
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And there it is... This is your opinion... Not fact.
/thread
yes this response is an opinion, the OP is my opinion as well based on FACTS. People are getting into if a "number 1 WR" is even a real thing. I wont get into arguing that but for those who subscribe to the existence of the "true #1" I say SJ isnt. I will agree he is the 20th best WR in the nfl to date, and that he is the Bills number 1 target.
The "homers" aren't angry. We're sleepy after reading your post.
No one says Stevie is "elite". He gets open. He catches a lot of balls. He consistently produces. He had one of the worst QBs ever throwing him the ball over his tenure with the Bills. Ypc has to do with the QB throwing the ball as well. Those are all facts. He is not "elite". No one here says he is. Stop hating. Your post brings nothing to the table. It makes you look like a troll.
Do you read the other post about how he is a Top 10 guy, better than VJ Bowe Victor Cruz even Moulds and some are starting to say Reed etc etc. ???
I said in the first line I like SJ and am glad hes here, I am just trying to bring the love affair with him back to reality.
thats exactly right. Because Wes Welker lines up in the slot, because he's not fast enough, or big enough, or go up for jump balls like Megatron, because he doesn't overpower defenders like Andre Johnson he clearly can't be a number one.
The OP needs to learn the difference between a #1 and an ELITE WR that will most likely be in the HOF. He keeps comparing Stevie to guys like Reed, Carter, Rice, Monk. WORD OF WISDOM OP.....ALL THOSE GUYS ARE OR SHOULD BE IN THE HOF!!!!!
yes can you not confuse the guys I compare with my answers to posts using guys THEY compared? And no I say Welker is a great example of a number 3 WR really being fed balls by a HOF QB on a consistanly winning team, inflating his stats. Welker would have had half those catches on the BIlls for 3 straight years, I would actually rather have SJ than welker.
Many Sports writers use the term number 1, number 2, and even 3 or 4 "type" wrs. If the terms didnt exist we wouldnt even argue about it. I remember when we lined up Parrish Price Evans and Reed and many writers accused the bills of having all "3 and 4 type wrs"
Sorry I spiked the kool aid. I guess ill just appease you all with a "SJ owns Revis!!!!"
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Please point me to these facts in your OP. Because to me that looks like a whole bunch of opinions. Could you also point me in the direction of what exactly defines a #1 receiver?
well the tds against revis for 3 years and wins vs losses vs him are facts. His drops are facts that can be looked up or viewed on youtube. His three years of groin and now hammy issues are facts. Vincent Jacksons numbers and how people didnt want him saying SJ was better are facts. SJ barely reaching 1000 yards a season and having low YPC and how people worship one and ignore the other are facts. Also the rating of SJ as the 20th best wr is searchable and derived through his stats, not opinions.
A true 1 in my opinion is a guy that has size and speed and hands and can make every catch and run every route. IMO sj cant go deep just like evans was a "deep threat" and also a #2 imo. Moulds and Reed were true #1's SJ is a number 1 on this team by default.
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thanks dorkington for actually using facts....its nice to not have hate spewed at you when you simply dont drink cool aid like so many here do.. I see by the stats you posted among those top 10 number one type wr's stevie is really only better than 1 of them as far as drop percentage goes, so he drops fewer than Doney Avery. Every other guy has less or equal drops to SJ but that is only one part of my argument against SJs "eliteness"
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You're changing your argument.
You started by saying he is the 20th best #1 WR in the NFL which I pointed out is a 32 team league.
Now you're saying he's not a "highly talented number 1 receiver that could be the number 1 on almost any team."
That's a different argument along the lines of "Eli isn't a number 1 QB" that the Jints fans abused themselves with for a few years.
no i made a point to his credit hes 20th in the nfl. That goes hand in hand with the point that hes not a premier highly talented guy, like say the top 5 or even top 10 guys. The entire point of my post was to debunk the myth that hes a top nfl receiver soley based on the fact that he "beats Revis" isnt "Calvin Johnson" and has 3 1000 yard seasons......you discredited everything i wrote simply because I didnt state there are 32 teams???? why would that even need to be said?
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You brought it on yourself by making a stupid thread and using Revis as an example. By your OP no WR that gets covered by Revis is a #1.
HUH? i in no way am saying that, using "stupid" is a strong word for someone that cant read or at least comprehend what they are reading.
You are confusing your opinion with fact. I am done posting Herr b.c this thread needs to die, absolute horrible piece.
how are stats going back 3 years and comparing several WRs opinions? please put some facts as to why SJ is a premier, highly talented number 1 reciever that could be the number 1 on almost any team. this is the argument Im making.
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You brought it on yourself by making a stupid thread and using Revis as an example. By your OP no WR that gets covered by Revis is a #1.
I dont use revis, thats what all the sj defenders use as their holy grail. I debunk revis as proof of anything. I know its hard for people to hear that SJ isnt awesome or great but he isnt. Hes good and thats it. I would predict both woods and rogers outplay him this year. If rogers doesnt blow it with off field issues I dont even see SJ finishing his contract here.
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interesting, I post facts,stats and basically display the other sides strongest three arguments yet get only ridiculed with points so far like "Stevie is important to this team" . So I am wrong why exactly?
only one post uses a point about reed rice and carter also not being fast , but I would say I saw rice get open and make deep catches year in year out, and chris carter had incredible hands and was clutch and also got open deep. Reed was still faster than SJ and got open deep.
So far I see I can make the homers angry but they cant defend there positions whatsoever.
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Considering Stevie has had the two highest yardage receiving games against Darrell Revis in Revis' last 65 games I'd ask who is a #1 then?? That doesn't even include what looked like a sure TD Johnson dropped heading down the middle of the field late in the game after absolutely smoking Revis in the slot, Fitz put the ball on the money and he dropped it...
First off id like to say I like SJ and am glad hes on the team.
That being said I dont get the homerizm and worship of a guy who is a great #2 or at most the 20th best wr in the NFL today.
Id like to break down the 3 main talking points people use to defend SJ and show how the poster above contradicts himself within his own short post. In his post he mentions how SJ had revis beat for a game winner but dropped it. This is supposed to add to his argument? what good is it if a WR can get open but not catch it? In the games SJ dominated Revis, the Bills lost. Going back 3 years, in 6 games against the jets, SJ had 3 tds, thats half a td a game and those werent specifically caught against Revis. So I could say he has scored a field goal per game during his vaunted 3, 1000 yard seasons. This is domination? People speak so highly of "yards" but yards mean little without TD's and TD's mean little without wins. The only win being a meaningless run for the bus game last season with the Jets in shambles. 0 td's by SJ in that game btw. For an example of a dominate play against revis that resulted in a win, look at the end of this video at minute 2:42
No one ever made much of this dominate play over Revis. Here a bills wr with speed and hands beats, then goes over the top of revis, outfights him and a safety to make the catch then takes it to the house for the TD and win.Second, the argument that "just beacuse hes not Calvin Johnson..." That is a tired and extreme example which suggests all WR are now #1s since none of them are Calvin Johnson either. SJ doesnt have to be CJohnson but hes not like another 10-15 WR either. His lack of speed especially makes him limited to 2/3 of the field. He also doesnt have enough size or strength to overcome this shortfall either, like say other slowish but big WRs who produce more big plays. Vincent jackson blew SJ's numbers away last year in YPC-19+ and yards-1384. Many here compared those two last year saying they didnt want Jackson because SJ was just as good or better.
Finally does having 999 yards per season make him worse than 1006? just because 1000 is a nice round number, it is not as meaningful as ypc or drop percentage or wins! I want a wr who makes clutch game winning plays that other WR cant make. Stevie just isnt clutch, his best catches are in quarters 1-3 and in blow outs. I much preferred to watch bombs to evans for 6 rather than 6 yard slant to SJ for 0. Moulds and Reed will always be above SJ in Bills lore, they were true #1s, not number 1 targets.
Arguments for why SJ is Good
1. owns Revis in losses
2. had 3 1000 yard seasons (
but concecutive )3. Good route runner
4. Not Calvin Johnson
Arguments why he isnt so good
1. Missing 1/3 of what a true #1 has- Speed
2. Problem with dropsies/especially game winners
3. Barely breaks 1000 yards and has pedestrian ypc and TDs for being the #1 target on his team
4. maturity issues(past)/ injury issues (present - 3 years now with ongoing groin/leg issues)
thanks for listening.
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great, another season with him at 70-80% maybe this is why his ypc are always average and he barely breaks a 1000 yards a season?
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Makes sense, hes always been a great number 2, possession receiver. I see him getting even more 5 yard slants and taking them another 5 yards. I doubt he'll have another 1000 yard season, but if he does, according to some here will that make him best Bills wr of all time.
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Great first post!
I was still alive when the Bills last made the playoffs.
Sent from my iCloud
I for one highly doubt this. I think you had almost been alive and just missed seeing the playoff run. How about now? Did you die already?
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hes good at internet technology AND football?
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i noticed you mentioned the LBs and not the WRs as a reason to be excited. I feel the same way.
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What was the OP's annual rationalization last year?
good question, Last year I saw the easy schedule, Mario, new DC, TJ graham, and Fitz healed rib as all positive turnarounds from the 6-10 season we had in 2011...who knew the DC could be worse, mario would play average, and fitz still wouldnt get the ball down the field. He went deep quite a bit in his first two years here.
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So are you saying that the only thing that kept us from a winning team was our linebackers?
no but the OP was about this years biggest reason I see hope for a winning record. We all know we lacked at QB and WR and thats been addressed but when people discuss our bad D they dont say much about specifics. I saw us beef up the line quite a bit going back to dwan edwards, Spencer Johnson etc. I think the real problem (aside from wanstache) was really bad Linebacking. Just about every outside guy had only about 20-40 tackles per season with both safties getting around 60 a season, is that normal in pro football?
I also am tracing back 3 years, where we had 3 of the worst seasons on D. We let Poz go who was about average and ellison was always below average, but replaced them with even less productive players!
also I found another interesting fact. As bad as we were at LB since well forever, aside from poz, we drafted only 5th or 6th round LBs from 2004-2010. thats 7 drafts and 3 different regimes! the LBs were alvin bowen, nic harris and Arthur moats and Ellison. How did buffalo ignore LB for so many years? Maybe this is why we couldnt ever "fit it up".
Finally we have a staff that I think said something like this.."hey I know, lets draft a QB, WR, and a LB for this team." instead of the usual DB,Lineman,DB that we see year in, year out with the occasion first round surprise RB.
What a strange thread.
why is it strange exactly?
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2010
It has only been 3 years since we saw the last game by a rasputin of bills football...Kieth Ellison. A guy who was a 5 year stop gap for the injured above average Angelo Crowell, who actually was a replacement for the pro bowler takeo spikes (who played as a starter oh just another 8 years as a so called "shell of himself") we then replaced ellisons tackles through the years with the likes of...get ready...reggie torbor, akin yoduleeheehuuu, Bryan scott and of course, Kelsay. With the safties always being the number 2 and 3 tacklers on the team and these outside linebackers always far below with between...get ready again...20-40 tackles per season! Oh had we just kept Takeo all those years.
And now for middle LB
Just three years ago we saw the last of Poz, who, when wasnt too busy breaking his arm, replaced the "awful" London fletcher ( still playing at a high level today with both arms I might add) We let Poz go for Sheppard who couldnt average 50 tackles a season for 2 years and for Barnett who couldnt sniff 80 tackles a season for two years as the teams top tackler!. (Poz at least broke 100 his last season rather than the usual radius or ulna)
Today
I actually see a serious attempt to have linebackers that can play. Alonzo was taken virtually in Poz' draft spot but looks more athletic, Bradham shows promise and speed, the colts guy has at least the potential to get sacks, what did sheppard do well? Our DE playing LB this year will be mario, not kelsay or worse, Spencer Johnson. What a joke that experiment was. Lawson I dont know about but could he be worse than Barnett or Kirk Morrison ?
the only holdovers I see are Moats(good pass rusher) and Scott who has quietly chipped in around 50 tackles every season as a sub package player.
I finally like our LBs!
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Lots of people on THIS BOARD thought he'd be gone. He is a good football player and now that we have a coaching staff his value will become evident fairly quickly. Keep in mind..... many of these dweebs are fantasy football losers. There is a difference between knowledgeable fans and fantasy dweebs. Fantasy dweebs are gamblers. Nothing more. Know little about the game. Route against their own team to make 2 dollars. Zero's every one of em in my opinion.
The Buffalo Bills are a better football team with Brad Smith on the roster. Period.
well said
He did take one to the house granted. But getting back to someones comment that he has the potential like CJ to bust one every time he has the ball. No, I do not see that. In the end sure keep him this is a team starved for anyone that can make a play. I doubt we will see the wildcat (thankfully).I dont want to ever see cj or mcfumble returining kicks. Really just for injury purposes. Brad is BIG and fast. He can return every kick imo and not get hurt or fumble. Even Cj has been a fumbler when he gets hit hard, hes not that big. But again why risk injury for a KR when Brad is 90-95% as effective as CJ and already our ST guy and backup WR?
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we traded Kolb!!??? when and for who??? Also nice insight into why. And the picture you post shows, imo, a bit of a man crush. Maybe you mean to say your very saddened at losing this specimen of a qb. I see you are still not over quinn early.
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Roscoe Parrish
Shawn Bryson
Eric Moulds
Biscuit
Moorman
TO
Terrance McGee
Sam Cowart
Angelo Crowell
what a joke these names are....except moulds and bennett You dont add guys who were good for 3-4 years and you dont add guys who were never good, like parrish or bryson, TO i would think about striking his name from the media guide before adding him to any wall....I believe his names already on several rest room walls in the ralph though, asking for dates.
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why would it be hard for a new qb to throw to sj? his specialty is being open underneath. Any qb can throw a 7 yard pass. Unless we exclusively go deep every play, the idea that SJ doesnt "fit" the new offense is idiotic. What passes exist that a strong elusive wr cant catch?
As far a cj is concerned, I dont think he is a 300 carry back and would definitely slow down with too many carries and hits. Let FJ take it on first and some second downs and tire out the D. then let CJ come in and rip off a 50 yard tds. Those thinking cj can just come in and carry 30 times a game will be dissappointed when his ypc go way down.
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"two dollars....TWO DOLLARS!!" better off dead.
"must hurry....must save 10 percent.....must ......have....... good ......valuuuue" captain kirk
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will he shine his peter? i dont understand.
Just re-upped for NFL Preseason Live
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
http://preseason.nfl.com/nflpl/raf/CBNY4NHD3AB4 since ptr's code is all used up.
support enlightenment!