D2K

Josh Kaddu - OLB 6'3/239 Keenan Robinson - ILB 6'3/242 Ronnell Lewis - OLB 6'2/253 Nix has to get a LB'er.

1. - Kuechly 2. - Kirkpatrick 3. - Tannehill

Or a legitimate LT as David Diehl is terrible and started the season as a LG. Trading up for an OT is absolutely ridiculous, and I hope and pray that Nix is smarter then that. Draft Kuechly @ 10 and than draft Josh Robinson @ 41 and this defense gets a primetime LB'er and the best off-man/zone CB in the draft. Stack the defense.

The lockout was more disruptive to defenses than offenses, and for obvious reasons this effect was strongest earlier in the season.

Fitz played well at the beginning of the year because of the lockouts effect on defenses in this league. Here is one of many examples to back this point: I feel that this year the teams that prospered were able to exploit defensive misalignments and coverage breakdowns that were endemic early in the season as a result of the reduced practice time caused by the lockout. I'd suggest that this was partly responsible for the explosion of passing across the league. Now to my example. Wes Welker - After five games Welker had 740 yards, an average of 148 yards per game, in the remaining eleven weeks he averaged 75 yards per game, which extrapolates to about 1200 yards, which is close to the sort of numbers he normally puts up. You can NOT deny the effect that the lockout had. Defenses got better, teams got better, the Bills have Ryan Fitzpatrick and went 1-8 down the stretch

Really? You actually belive what you just typed? So the Bills would have won more than 6 games if the Oline was better, is your argument? Thats hilarious to the point of absurdity. So how many wins does an offensive line get your football team? How many losses are they responsible for? What about when that unit ranks as one of the top units in the league? What about when your starting Rb is leading the league in rushing before he gets injured and your backup comes and the run game is still effective? Lets not blame the real problem. A QB who is a bottom feeder in the league, who is on his 3rd team in his 7th going on 8th year. A QB who led the league in INT's? Couldnt be him? Couldnt be a defense that couldnt even get PRESSURE on Qb's. It must be the must productive unit on the entire team. Makes sense!!!! Lets waste a top 10 pick on a OT. Instead of addressing the defense or playmakers. Brilliant.

YOu have got to be kidding me. That article was written in August of 2011. BEFORE THE SEASON STARTED. What a joke. Here is what is currently being said about our Oline: http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/02/23/ranking-the-2011-offensive-lines-part-2/ http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/02/21/2011-pass-blocking-efficiency-guards-and-centers/ http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/02/20/2011-pass-blocking-efficiency-offensive-tackles/ THis offensive line is really good, and so many people grossly undervalue them.

Which of my posts lacked quality and was off-base? Should say something that the thread has over 200 replies and is 11 pages long. Only the tebow thread had more action.

Bwah, really? You and others gave clear evidence of what? How did you prove ANYTHING with any point that you made? The Giants have "some of the best Olineman in the league? Really? who? Which of the Bills starting lineman is considered one of the worst in the league? Its ok, I get it now. Your name is "fear the beard" and clearly shows your bias. Somehow its the fault of 5 players on the oline that finished at the top of the league in almost EVERY statistical category, and not that of the QB who was and always has been a bottom feeder in every statisitical measure? Thats not logical thinking by any sense of the imagination. You think for one second that I care what your opinion of me is, when you take the stance that I jsut pointed out boldly and accurately? Keep thinking that I will lose a single wink of sleep because "fear the beard" wont engage in debate with me. You havent proven a single thing to me, and I can tell that you probably NEVER will. You want to throw around words like "moron" yet take the stance that Fitz is somehow some magical player, that comes into his own, while on his 3rd team in 7 years, and a statistical bottom feeder, who has only won 6 games in one season as a starter. A guy who has 68 tds for his career and 63 ints with 32 career fumbles (15 lost), giving him a TO margin of 68 tds/78 total TO's. A guy who avg's 188.6 yards a game, on 35.6 attempts, whos career completion % is 59.2 and an astounding 5.5 ypa. This is the guy that you think is a "franchise QB"? What planet do you live on? Yeah, Im the moron. Furthermore, when someone refers to an article that was written in the first week of November, that is as laughable as I can even think. When comparing what happens over the course of a season, you dont cherry pick an article from November especially when the debate is happeining in February of the following year. Completely laughable and will NEVER hold valididty with me. That article proves absolutely NOTHING.

I have ZERO disdain for this board, dont know where you got that at? How do I not share in discussions on this board? My very first thread topic is now 11 pages long, I have also contributed my opinions to quite a few other discussions on this board. It took me 3 days of being on this board to realize what kind of poster you are. You try your hardest to bait other posters into assinine arguments in which you have zero credibility (based on the posts I have read of yours). Its quite comical, and your lack of knowledge seeps through my computer screen. So until you make a valid point, or a thought provoking post, dont expect me to acknowledge your existance. I like this board and most seem knowledgable, its you though dude, that contributes nothing but venom and misinformation. Keep up the good work (sorry, I just threw up a little).

Your analysis is garbage nice try.

First off, there isnt a single intelligent idea on BBMB. Second, who are you? Not one person on BBMB has ever "shot me down", no idea what you are talking about? Again, that board is completely lowest common denominator.

With the 43 over being a one gap and spill defense which is predicated on forcing plays outside of the hashes, I think this makes the pick at 10 a no-brainer if Coples is on the board. I think sometimes people think that because we are looking for a pass-rusher that miraculously it will take the team sack numbers through the roof, when actually this defense isnt ran that way. The main purpose is to create pressures on every play and attack the playside/strongside, and force mistakes into the zone coverage schemes. This defense is more TO oriented than it is sack oriented. Upshaws biggest weakness IMO is his inability to shed blockers once he is engaged, Coples with his length doesnt have this problem and will be a mismatch consistently. Also consider that Dareus and Williams will free up Coples to just free range and make plays, because one or the other or both will require double teams. The most important factor to me with Coples is that he is athletic enough to stand up and also big enough to slide inside on 3rd downs to man the DT spot and we can have a "NASCAR" style speed rush on 3rd down in the vein of what the Giants do with Tuck and Canty. I would lose my mind if we could get Coples at 10, and it would immediately take a unit that has question marks, to being one of the top 3-5 in the league.

Mayock is good, but I dont think he should be held in the regard that he is by some people. He watches the same film as any fan, he doesnt have access to the "All 22" like coaches and GM's have. I would take what Mayock says with a grain of salt as well. I dont know how he can make that claim before the combine and individual workouts. So many of the "pundits" and "talking heads" always misconstrue readers to believe hype forgetting that Coples and UNC as a whole went through a change this year in philosophy with a new coach at the helm. Scheme changes and coaching ability can disrupt a player in so many ways. I think that is why people assume Coples doesnt have a consistant motor. Once the combine rolls around, Coples is gonna blow the doors off the place with his measurables. He is 6'6 281 with 10 inch hands, 34 inch arms, and an amazing 80 inch wingspan. When your ceiling is Julius Peppers and Ingrams is probably Elvis Dumerville, it wouldnt/shouldnt take a rocket scientist to see the upside and make the pick. If by some miracle Coples is on the board at 10, I dont think there is anyway that Nix wont pull the trigger. sidenote: I am not a fan at all of Upshaw in this defense.

A best receiver in the league debate is not what this thread was about, and to pin-point one or two or three players as the best at their position is Ok if you are talking about a QB. With receivers, you just cant do it. There are a plethora of players that can be argued for as the BEST reciever in the league, but its a debate that will NEVER have a clear cut winner. I agree that Fitzgerald/C. Johnson/A. Johnson are in the discussion, but from a pure productivity stand point Welker is far and away the more productive reciever. Now does that mean he is the best? Certainly not, but again he has to be in the discussion. I could name 10-15 other receivers that could be in this conversation as well. Which is why I say that they are a dime a dozen. They can be found from the 2nd round all the way through UDFA status (same with RB's) and hold better value than a reciever that was drafted as a 1st rounder. The Lions had to miss and miss hard on Charles Rogers (2nd overall/2003), Roy Williams (7th overall/2004) and Mike Williams (10th overall/2005) before they finally struck gold and were handed Calvin Johnson. Even though he was the consensus best player in the 2007 draft the Raiders completely CHOKED and drafted Jamarcus Russell. That is 3 times that the Lions completely whiffed on WR. It is entirely to easy to do, so why take the chance in the 1st round (which is what my posts are referring to). IMO, it would be a horrible decision to EVER draft a WR in the first round, especially by a team that is so devoid of talent in the defensive front 7.

Again, what I did was compared the BEST offenses in the league and the WR corp that each team fielded. The QB of the team is immaterial in this argument and I have no idea what point you can possibly make to deter what I have said. Which HIGH POWERED team should I break down for you? What is it that you are reaching for and what point are you trying to make?

Cherry picked? Those were the number 1 and number 3 offenses in the league this year. It had nothing to do with cherry picking anything. I in no way disproved my theory. My theory is you dont take a WR in the 1st round, and I more then proved why you dont do that. I can add NE and their receivers if you want more definitive proof? Forget it, here is there WR corp: Branch - 2nd Rd. Welker - UDFA Edelman - 7th Rd. Ocho - 2nd Rd. Tight Ends: Gronk - 2nd Rd. Hernandez - 4th Rd. Those are the top 3 offenses in the league and again, of all 3, ONLY 1 WR or TE was taken in the 1st round (Meachem). Not sure where you are going with that? I like Sanu as well, but he can be had in the 2nd or trading back into the first (which I wouldnt do). Kendall Wright IMO will be the best reciever in this class because of his YAC potential. I like Danny Coale from V-tech as my sleeper WR this year. 4.3 speed catches everything and spectactular in the short zones. Perfect slot guy IMO.

I will take a shot at this today seeing as no one else has yet, but it must be taken with a grain of salt because this is of course pre-combine/team workouts/indivdual workouts/team interviews etc. Again, this is who I think the Bills will select in the first 3 rounds, after that, its my personal opinion of what they should do. Round 1: Quinton Coples - DE (despite Mayocks claim that he shouldnt be picked in the 1st 3 rounds) Round 2: Dwayne Allen - TE Round 3: Keenan Robinson - OLB Round 4: Devier Posey - WR Round 4: Brian Quick - WR Round 5: Jayron Hosley - CB Round 5: Josh kaddu - OLB

It's hard to justify a WR in the first round IMO, RB as well. These skill positions players beisdes QB, in todays NFL, are vastly overrated, and are a dime a dozen. I would argue with the way that the game is trending that the WR position isnt anymore as effective now then it was 20 years ago. Which significantly lowers the value of the position in the draft and FA. For an example I give you GB's and NO's WR corp and the corresponding draft round they were selected: Jennings - 2nd Rd. J. Nelson - 2nd Rd Driver - 7th Rd. J. Jones - 3rd Rd. Cobb - 2nd Rd. Tight End: Finley - 3rd Rd. ------------------------ NO Saints WR Corp: Colston - 7th Rd. Henderson - 2nd Rd. Meachem - 1st Rd. Tight End: Graham - 3rd Rd. Only 1 WR out of the 2 most explosive offenses in the league was drafted in the 1st round. You dont need a 1st round receiver EVER to field a productive unit. The only players on the Bills radar in the 1st round should ALL be on the defensive side of the ball.

Im not gonna continue my debate on this topic anymore because I have made my arguments and stand behind them. What I should address is the ending to your post. For that, I must apologize. I dont try to come off as "rude and negative" and I certainly dont want the moniker of "troll" or any other adjective that can be thrown together. We are all Bills fans first and foremost, and I must admit that 12 solid years of bottom feeding becomes more then tiresome and eats at my overly passionate soul. Please accept my apology, and that is for ANYONE that I have offended.

Where do I even start with this trainwreck of a post? You provided a link from NOVEMBER 11th of 2011, that is hardly definitive proof of ANYTHING. Then when I addressed that the article was from NOVEMBER 11th and was nothing more then a QBR assessment (which QBR was developed this year by the likes of Trent Dilfer, excuse me for not taking an ESPN generated ratings system seriously, you should do the same) you had NO argument after that point was made. NO one cares what Hasselbeck or Fitz did in October, neither one of them FINSIHED in the top 10 at ANYTHING, neither of their teams made the playoffs, neither of them were Pro Bowlers, neither of them are sure-fire locks at their position moving forward. Furthermore, QB's like FItz are capable of having stretches of 4-5 games where they play admirably, but when you look at a COMPLETE seasons worth of statistics and the guy is near the bottom in EVERY SIGNIFICANT QB related stat that tells the entire story. Not chapters 1 and 2 which you seem to be fervently clinging to. To think that article holds any credence whatsoever is absolutely laughable. I can dismiss "chemistry and continuity" rather easily. This isnt 1987 anymore where teams are able to mold and gel into elite units, b/c of FA, and the fact that rookies are more so ready then ever right out of college. Dareus for example and Barnett as well, Shep, had NEVER played a single snap together and still they managed seasons worthy of recognition. I could give you countless other examples of the same being true. Cam Newton/Steve SMith, Andy Dalton/Aj green etc etc etc. ad nauseum. Again, just waiting on a good point from you.

He really "pegged me"? His whole retort was the Giants Oline has starts together. When in fact they had their starting LT this year go on IR early. I dont equate an illogical argument to "pegging" somebody.

So in your opinion, the Giants Oline is good because they have played more games together? This reasoning is horrible. Stats dont matter? I am not sure what kind of offense you think Kevin Gilbride runs? I guess because I have to reiterate AGAIN, Eli Manning gets the ball out FASTER than ANY other QB in the league. PERIOD!!!! Not FItz, Not anyone else you can think of, ELI. WHY? Because he gets pressured and hit more than ANY other QB in the league. Both their tackles are absolutely bottom of the league starters and are players that age has caught up to and they both are on the way out. Instead of myself reiterating stats that I have already given you, I will instead just post this link: http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/02/01/super-bowl-focus-clinging-to-the-edge/ Then you go into a long-winded rant about how many starts each player has, which holds absolutley ZERO bareing on how much actual talent that unit has. I am impressed that you said alot without actually saying anything at all. I can just say, read the article, I have already given concrete facts and somehow they are overlooked to prove a point that jsut isnt there to begin with.

I have already responded to this assinine point you were trying to make. Dont know where my reply went but I will reiterate. You posted an article from November 11th by an author that is doing nothing more than projecting stats. Its a pathetic attempt to prove a point that isnt valid in the first place. An article that is written strictly on the premise of QBR (a made up stat generated by ESPN, and is put together by the likes of Trent Dilfer). Come on dude, that isnt gonna fly with me. I also think its funny that you fail to mention where Fitz FINISHED in QBR. Let me help you...17th. I have seen you go on some insane rant about "defining a "franchise QB" and some how come up with Fitz matching whatever it is YOUR criteria suggests. You ask everyone to define "franchise QB" yet you have nothing to quantify your definition. What planet do you live on that FItz is a Franchise QB? You actually think that a 59 million dollar contract, which the Bills lined with out-clauses, is a "franchise QB" contract? Come on dude, thats a middle of the road contract, that was nowhere near the dollar amount that he deserved. Kolb and Cassel got the same kind of deals, and neither one of them is the sure-fire starter going into next season. I am still waiting for you to make a valid point. Regardless, I have about 20 minutes left before I am off for the night, considering its Valentines day and NO MB on the planet is better than love making, hah, I probably shouldnt have went there. If you want to continue this debate i will be back at this tomorrow. 20 minutes, respond quickly. http://nyjetscap.com/2011_Efficiency/valueprice.php - for your viewing pleasure.

Runs from thread? What? I just got off of work and had to commute home, no one is shying away from debate. Pdaddy hasnt made one legit point that I have countered so not sure what you are talking about? As far as Peters, I would compare Bell to Peters. Both extremely athletic, agile, quick feet, and are capable of being maulers. Mental lapses from time to time, but not enough of a worry to constitute looking to replace. Need I go on?