D2K

Do you honestly think that David lee is going to come in and say that Fitz is horrible and that the stats prove it? 2 Tds to 8 ints when under pressure should tell you all that you need to know. Come on man, its coach speak.

Again, completely laughable and lacks substance. Where are you getting your 2.7 stat? That couldnt be further from the truth. You are interpreting what I am saying completely wrong. Reading comprehension 101 dude. Eli Manning had the LEAST AMOUNT OF TIME than ANY other QB in the league from snap to release. The LEAST, not Fitz or Hasselbeck, who were protected by two of the best Olines in football this year arent even middle of the pack. I never once said that players found in the later rounds are always studs, but the same can be said about 1st rounders, hence the word "BUST". That label ONLY gets associated with 1st rounders and anyone calling any player a bust who was drafted outside of the first round really has no clue. What I said was you dont waste 1st round picks on offensive lineman especially at the 10th pick in the draft. I also NEVER said that I cant learn anything more about football, or made reference to me being the "all-knowing", what I said was that YOU couldnt teach me anything about football that I already havent forgotten. while your at it, why dont you go ahead and chew on these stats for awhile.... http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

Swing and a miss! Trust me when I say that you CANNOT educate me on anything football related. Its funny that you say "It's not where you're drafted it's how you play", because in the first reply post that you made to me, you made reference to Hairston being a 4th rounder, as to say that 4th rounders are nobodies. Then when I clearly pointed out that Pro-Bowl Olineman are routinely selected in the later rounds your retort completely contradicted what you previously said. Nice try. That might work on someone else, but that backwards talk doesnt hold credence with me. Then you go on to say that our "oline doesnt afford Fitz more than 2.68 seconds to get rid of the ball", which is flat out made up hyperbole, again holding ZERO credence. As I pointed out earlier Eli Manning led the league in "snap to release" time with 3.8 seconds. Meaning (since I guess I have to explain it to you) he had LESS time then ANY other QB in the league and he still WON the Super Bowl. Thats strike 2 against you. Finally, you get into some scorned schoolboy attitude of "support our starter or be a whiny hater" campaign. I bet you are one of those "I am taking my ball and leaving" kind of dudes, or my absolute favorite when someone cant prove a point "go post on another message board or pick a new team" kind of guys. Strike 3.....you are out dude.

I think for the most part we agree. I addressed that defense because I have seen multiple times that certain posters are advocating LT at 10, which like I said makes ZERO sense. Thats how I strayed off of topic a bit. To the rest of your post. I am more than aware that Bell is a FA. The fact is Buffalo has the best chance at resigning him and IMO, when healthy, Bell could be as good as a top 5-10 LT in this league. Furthermore, if Bell is not resigned, I dont see the need of drafting a LT in the first round EVER. A LT wins a team ZERO games. Also, Hairston can play LT no matter what some posters try to make you believe. He performed more than admirably at his position. After BEll went down Hairston faced in order: Babin/JPP/C. Pace/Ware/Wake Thats a tough challenge for ANY LT in this league and he played more than admirable. He can be solid. Lets not lose sight that the kid was a rookie. I think he is more than capable of playing LT in this league. I would much rather him play Swing tackle for another year because again, I think Bell can be one of the better LT's in the league. The QB position needs addressed before this team has any real shot of competing.

So let me get this right: You are advocating a LT with the 10th overall pick? Essentially taking away a top-tier talent at a spot that is conducive to grabbing playmakers" (DE/LB/CB/WR), while drafting for a unit that FINISHED the season tops in the league (oline)? When a team is devoid of playmakers, adding depth to the Oline with that pick seems comical. Every significant stat in the world screams that the problem is the QB and not that of the Oline, yet some people are insistant with the thought process of LT's win games, not the position (QB) that touches the ball on EVERY offensive snap? I just cant understand this line of thinking? How am I a glass is half empty poster, when the only gripe I have had is with who is behind center? This entire post has been about how well I think the Offensive line has played and that it is the most underrated unit that this regime has fielded. Contrary to your argument that I am a glass half empty guy.

Thank you and I agree that the BBMB is a joke. This is the counter-argument I get from EVERY Bills fan that thinks the Oline is bad/garbage, which I truly dont understand. Some say that its chans offense that is the somehow hiding the Oline, while I feel that its chans offense that is protecting/hiding Fitzpatrick and his accuracy issues and his overall game in general. I think many people are enamoured by the "Harvard" stigma and just automatically assume because he went to Harvard he is "football smart". There is a giant difference between being Football smart and Harvard educated. If this were the case then why wouldnt teams strictly draft QB's from Ivy league schools? and forget the whole "natural talent" factor that goes into playing the most important position in ALL of sports? Trent Edwards was smart, doesnt mean he is capable of being an NFL QB. http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/31/pressure-and-the-2011-quarterbacks/ Done and done.

I find this post hilarious. Before Bell went down he was rated number 2 behind only Joe Thomas by PFF grading every starting LT in the league. Let me also add that Eric Wood has not played a single 16 game season in his entire career, should we be looking for his replacement? Chris HAIRSTON (no idea who chris harrison is) played the swing tackle better than anyone could have imagined. He was more then acceptable in his time on the blindisde. That 4th round argument is a terrible one and proves that you are reaching to support a 7th round QB on his 3rd team. You cant possibly convince me that the Giants have great tackles. They were amongst the worst in the league. Not sure where you get your statistics. Diehl started the season as a LG and was forced to move outside because of an injury to Beatty. Diehl was kicked inside to guard because he was no longer capable of holding up at the POA and is a liabilty on that line (as i stated that oline allowed 244 pressures this year). Dont even get me started on Kareem Mackenzie the Giants RT. He is among the absolute bottom feeders at his position and is likely going to be replaced this year. Furthermore, the best LT's in the league are probably Joe Thomas of Cleveland and Jake Long of the Dolphins, those guys combined for 1 playoff appearance in their careers COMBINED. LT is such an overrated position in todays NFL because offenses arent reliant on the 9 routes and verticals to move the ball. I am glad that you brought up the NO saints Oline. Here is a rundown of the player and their draft round: Carl Nicks - 5th round Jahri Evans - 4th round Jermon Bushrod - 4th round Those are the Pro Bowlers that you speak of, and NOT ONE of them was drafted before the 4th round. I am not sure what point you were trying to make, but an Olineman at 10 is about as ill-conceived a pick as another RB.

Couple things here: How can I be so "clearly" incorrect when he has never won more than the 6 games that he won this year? That is a fact. Injuries aside (because thats part of the game, see GB packers Super bowl season IR list) you cant project wins for him. I dont know how mentioning FACTS could have any relevance to my credibility? You say poor defense with a bad pass rush, I say wrong scheme for the players on the field coupled with the OFFENSE leading the league in 3 and outs, which again doesnt allow for defensive adjustments and scheme adjustments on the fly. Granted we dont have a "pass rusher" to help this team get off of the field on 3rd down, but that helps make my point. I guess I should have titled this thread "Just say no to a LT in the first 3 rounds". Eric Wood has yet to play a full 16 game schedule, and has done nothing to solidify the hype that Bills fans in general give the guy. Dont get me wrong, I like Wood and think he is an asset, but even healthy he isnt our best Olineman. I would give that to the multi-faceted Levitre. Wood cannot and should not be counted on as a 16 game center. He is as injury prone as Bell or anyone else you can mention. KW is a good player, but lets face facts. The guy made the Pro Bowl as an alternate. He wasnt a first Ballot pro-bowler and he only registered 5.5 sacks last year and has 13.5 in his entire career. Dareus, as a rookie matched that 5.5 number. In the 5 games KW played this year he had 0 sacks 9 tackles and only 4 of those were solo tackles. I like KW as well, and I am very excited about the possibilties with him and Dareus manning the middle of our 43 front, but he is far from outstanding. George Wilson is a converted WR who is a solid SS, but I think if Searcy is in the game instead you wouldnt notice a drop off in production from that position. Fred, you gotta love this guy, but CJ filled in admirably in his absence. He is on the wrong side of 30 and IMO shouldnt get any more than maybe a 2 year deal 3 years if its backloaded with incentives. Number 1 in the league in pass-pro (only allowing 135 pressures ALL SEASON) and number 12 in the running game despite Chans continued insistance to neglect our strongest assets (Spiller/Jackson) scream otherwise.

Yes, I agree 100%. With that said, I am in the small majority that would trade the proverbial farm for an Andrew Luck or a RG3. I believe with FA, the draft and Parity that no team is more than 1 offseason away from contention, which makes our now 12 year playoff drought all the more confusing. If we cant trade up I want one of Coples/Perry/Burfict (i can make a strong argument for him at 10).

I guess I will have to respectively agree to disagree. As far as FItz having or as you say not having time or the "pocket scrambling ability" of a Big Ben, I would have to point out that the Tom Bradys and Joe flaccos of the world dont necessarily need agility and quickness as much as lateral mobility and more importantly pocket awareness. A simple slide from the left to right or vice-versa in the pocket as opposed to quickly "bailing" at the first sign of trouble would go along way. Pre-snap reads and determing the "Key" defender is almost football 101. This is why motioning players is quintessential in determing man/zone coverage. Fitz severley lacks in these areas and again, I will have to point out that it is more then evident with his league leading INT numbers. As far as the Eli Manning in a vacuum, I would say that I use him as the example because he is the QB of the team that just won the SUper Bowl and his stats prove that his Oline is downright lackluster and he still is able to thrive. Fitz has IMO, a top 3-5 Oline in the league and still is a bottom feeder on all the stat lines that hold significant value. The Link is from Football outsiders and I am a premium member. I dont kow why it wont let me post the link and I have emailed them telling them about this situation and I hope to have it rectified soon. In the mean time you will have to take my word at face value but I will post this link as soon as possible. For what its worth, Fitz' number from snap to release is 4.6 seconds. Hardly the 2-3 that people who defend him have tryed pointing out. There is no possible way that I can agree with you that FItz accuracy has ever or will ever be considered of all things "stunning". He is a starter on an NFL roster (no matter how bad is immaterial to this point) who should be capable of making a nice throw from time to time (if not the talent evaluating from OBD is need of a serious over haul, but thats for another time and another post). The problem is the consistancy in which FItz makes "good" throws, and anything beyond 15 yards is a "close your eyes and pray" situation with him. Alot of the "fitz doesnt have time in the pocket" arguments can simply be dismissed by saying that Chan doesnt run a balanced enough offense to keep defenses guessing. As far as the "His accuracy suffers the most when he's pressured. Period." argument, I would have to say that is nothing more than hyperbole and goes without saying with EVERY QB in the league. If you or I had a clean pocket on every snap I am sure that we could run ANY NFL offense at a Pro Bowl level. I think that line of thinking is more along the lines something an apologist would say. Thats ok too, its our team and we should support them the best we can, but after a deceade+ of mismanagement and blunder I cant take that approach anymore.

Appreciate it. Let me ask you this: How much time does a QB need to go through his progressions and make the right read? Eli Manning (who just on the Super Bowl mind you) led the league for the shortest time in the pocket at 3.8 seconds from snap to release. Again, his team jsut won the Super bowl. Gaileys offense, hell the league in general is predicated on 3-5 step drops and YAC yardage, attacking the short and intermediate zones and having QB's who are capable of pin-point accuracy to run these offenses. Fitz accuracy is an abomination of epic proportions. He is completely reliant on his first read being his ONLY choice, which explains why he was the league leader in INTs. You cant possibly think that this team can win anymore than 6 games with this guy at QB?

Let me preface by saying Hello to all, I am a new poster to THIS particular Bills board, and I look forward to talking football with this board. I have been a regular on the BBMB on the official site for awhile now and the lack of knowledge there astounds me sometimes. I have been perusing this board and can safely say, that I am "in the right place". I sincerely hope that you enjoy my posts and I hope to have lengthy, knowledgable debates. To the point, there is a myth that this team is "lacking" along the Oline and in particular at the LT spot. To be honest, I have to find that laughable. The real problem with this offense is the Quarterback. Lets not forget the fact that the QB (I cant even say his name sometimes he makes me sick) was the LEAST sacked QB in the NFL this year, even after injuries at critical positions along the offensive front. Lets also add QB pressures to this equation, of which the Qb was ONLY pressured on 135 of his 569 dropbacks or a rate of every 4.2% of dropbacks. Lets compare that number to QB's who are considered to "have all day" behind great offensive lines. Drew Brees - 174 pressured dropbacks Tom Brady - 173 pressured dropbacks Aaron Rodgers - 158 pressured dropbacks Eli Manning - 244 pressured dropbacks (the WORST OLINE in the league, and they won a Super Bowl) There are 14 QB's who started every game this year (E. Manning/Brees/Freeman/Ryan/Rivers/Newton/Flacco/Dalton/Brady/Stafford/A. Smith/Rodgers/Sanchez). There are also Qb's who missed 1-4 games and their Olines surrendered more pressures than that of our Bills they are Vick/Grossman/Mccoy/Romo/Tebow/T. Jackson/Roethlisberger/Bradford/Gabbert. That is 22 Qb's who faced more pressure than Fitzpatrick and 9 of them didnt play 16 games. Of the remaining 12 QB's who started this year only Matt Hasselbeck threw more then 300 times. This Buffalo Bills Oline is one of the strongest units in the league, and they receive constant hatred from some that are too enamoured by a QB who is nothing more than a solid spot-duty BACKUP. Not enough to make some of you believers in this Oline, and non-Billievers in the QB? Well how about this: Fitzpatricks TD/INT ratio when under pressure ranked him 3rd worst in the league and only Curtis Painter (1 TD/ 4 Ints) and Carson Palmer (2 TD's/ 10 Ints) were worse. Fitzpatricks TD/INT ratio under pressure was 2 TD's/ 8 INts. How about his completion % under pressure? Well Fitz ranked at the bottom of the league at that as well at an abysmal 43.6%, hitting only 44 out of 101 attempts. ladies and Gentleman this is definitive proof of the QB being the issue and not the Offensive line. Let me also add that this team was dead last in 3 and outs this year. look, I realize the defense could benefit greatly from a pass rusher (in fact a pass rusher should be the pick in 2 of the first 3 rounds), but fans overlook that when your offense is giving the ball back to the opposing team after ONLY 3 plays that doesnt allow for the defense to properly make in-game adjustments and talk with the coaches about scheme on the sideline. We must address the QB situation with haste, if not this team will continue to be muddled in mediocrity.