Brewcity Cheesehead

Hey guys... I think my jaw hit the floor when I saw the Bills crushed/embarrassed the Chiefs today. Congrats, and enjoy it, because while I would reserve judgement for a few more weeks, it might be an indication of things turning around in Buffalo. I didn't watch the game, but it sounds like your offense had its way with the Chiefs. I know Cassel has had his share of stinker games, but the fact that the Bill forced one of those games (3.3 YPA is insane) shows that the Bills defense is legit, as the only team to hold the Chiefs to a single touchdown last year was the Ravens in the playoffs.

Here's a video of Ruvell Martin's biggest game of his career (4 rec, 57 yds, 2 TDs). Specifically, you're gonna want to skip to 0:37, 2:46, and 3:18. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR_3X7O6OAY

While he's nothing to get too excited about, I wouldn't write him off as a camp body yet. Remember, he's made an NFL roster 5 out of the last 5 years. I just wouldn't expect him to be an impact player. He'll be the type that will get maybe 1 or 2 targets most games he's activated, and then once a year he'll have one game where he'll have a significant impact because he's able to capitalize on a mismatch with smaller DB's... when he was in GB, for some reason those games were always against the Vikings. Though if you guys have a chance to pick up Chastin West... you SHOULD get excited about him... and then who cares whether Martin makes the team or not.

Only guy that could be cut that'd be worth a look is Ray Dominguez out of Arkansas. UDFA this year, and has shown some promise, but I wouldn't get your hopes up for him being better than who you have now... good for a project to develop and fill out the bottom of the roster for now. thanks... you guys are pretty cool yourselves because I like football. Every once in a while I read other teams boards just to see what types of things fans are talking about and to get a general sense of where the team is, but usually don't sign up for an account or post for that matter. Only other board I've posted on besides here and one of the Packer's boards is patsfans.com since I was planning on making a trip to Foxboro for their game against the Packers last December and had some questions (trip plans ended up falling through). With this board, I only signed up because I saw the topic about Jason Wied's comments at the Packer shareholder's meeting (which I attended) where he listed the economic impact on the community per capita of several teams including the Bills and thought I had some insight to add.

Ruvell Martin used to be with the Packers a couple years ago (2008 was his last year here I think) and I'm not sure where he's been the last couple years (I think the Rams signed him). He's a reliable receiver, not going to blow anyone away with his speed, but he has good size and good hands. The Packers used him in their 5WR sets which they used quite often when he was around. Aaron Rodgers always used to joke that Martin was his favorite target when most of their practice reps were on the scout team as backups. The Packers cut him in 2009 in favor of Brett Swain who is probably a worse receiver, but was better on special teams. The cut was one of the surprise cuts that no one expected, as he contributed to the team quite a bit and was well liked. BTW, if any of you guys like to scout who your team could pick up after final cut-downs, check out Chastin West, currently on the Packers roster. He's kinda got a little bit of everything, speed, crisp routes, hands, not too small... he's just a bit raw, and all he needs is a chance... I think he can be a quality starting receiver someday. He was an undrafted guy last year and spent the year on the practice squad. This preseason he's made some huge strides, but the Packers are 5 deep on WR's (Driver, Jennings, Jones, Nelson and Cobb) and while the Packers might hang onto 6 WR's just to keep West, they'll more likely have to let him go, and he won't make it through waivers and onto the practice squad this time. Check out his big play in their last preseason game. That play shows off his speed and hands, but he's been making other plays running routes across the middle of the field that show off his athleticism as well.

If you guys want to look into a QB that would help out the Bills, check out Matt Flynn of the Packers who's set to be a FA next season, and he'll want to seek out a starting job. We've seen him play very well in the preseason and in the one game he started last season @New England (and almost won). His biggest knock is that he doesn't have a very strong arm, but he seems to have the composure and the attitude that all the great QB's have. He's a very accurate passer, and makes smart decisions, and he's a proven winner since he led LSU to a National Championship title in 2008. The only reason the Packers haven't shopped him for a draft pick is because he's their only capable backup QB. I'm convinced he'll be an above average starting quarterback once he gets the chance... BTW, Packers drafted him in the 7th round in '08. EDIT: I think its also worth mentioning that its not only about DRAFTING good quarterbacks... its also about DEVELOPING good quarterbacks. If you draft the best QB but don't have the coaching staff to translate potential to performance, you'll have a mediocre QB. Which is IMO the case with Flynn. Mike McCarthy is a former QB coach, and Tom Clements is a very good QB coach, and every offseason (with the exception of this last one due to the lockout) the Packers put on a "quarterback school" where all quarterbacks will get together with McCarthy and Clements and go back to square one and work on the fundamentals of quarterbacking. Basically a dedicated mini-camp just for QB's.

2nd round: Kevin Kolb 6th round: Matt Hasselbeck 7th round: Matt Cassel UDFAs: Tony Romo

To be completely honest with you guys, reading this topic, no offense, but I want to slap some of you upside the head. I can't even believe this is a debate... you win every game you can, no if's and's or but's. The higher draft pick is only the consolation prize that isn't really worth as much as everyone thinks it is. Wins, even meaningless wins, are much more important, not only because they help establish a winning culture, but also because thats why you play the game... to quote Vince Lombardi "Winning isn't everything... its the only thing" Everyone knows the draft is a crapshoot, but consider this concerning the draft: -Most years the quarterback drafted first isn't the best quarterback in that draft. Its a bit early to compare QB's drafted in 2010, but you'd have to go back to Carson Palmer in 2003 to find a year that the best QB was the first QB selected (and look at where that's gotten the Bengals). -The quarterbacks picked with pick #1 turn out to be busts just as often as they turn out to be good QB's. The last 10 QB's picked #1 are Cam Newton, Sam Bradford, Matthew Stafford, JaMarcus Russell, Alex D. Smith, Eli Manning, Carson Palmer, David Carr, Michael Vick, Tim Couch. Only Vick (who's had his troubles), Manning (who the Giants didn't even pick, the Chargers did), Palmer (who's at odds with the Bengals) can be considered successes. Jury's still out on the latest three, but I think Bradford and Stafford are going to be good QB's, while I'm convinced Newton will be a bust (but that's another debate altogether). So that's 3 successes, 4 busts, 3 the jury's still out on. Not great odds if you're the GM with the first pick, when your job security will likely hinge on the success of that one player. Much less pressure picking in the middle of the pack, and the success rate isn't all that different when you consider that guys like Josh Freeman, Joe Flacco and Aaron Rodgers were all picked in the 2nd half of the first round. You can even get guys like Drew Brees, Matt Schaub and Kyle Orton in the 2nd to 4th round, and guys like Matt Hasselbeck, Tom Brady, Matt Cassel and Tony Romo past the 5th round. You guys even got Fitzpatrick who was picked in the 7th round, who hasn't looked too bad, but has been much better than Edwards who was picked in the 3rd round. -High draft picks are expensive. If they don't work out, they can kill a team's salary cap for years. There often isn't a huge drop off in talent from say pick #5 to pick #25, but pick #25 comes much cheaper and doesn't hurt the team as much financially if he's a bust. -The last guy that was hyped up as the sure-fire #1 pick as much as Andrew Luck was Reggie Bush. The Texans were smart enough to not buy the hype and take Mario Williams, but the Saints got a very solid 3rd-down running back instead of the unstoppable stud that they thought they drafted. -All of the successful teams in the league didn't get where they are by picking high in the draft. Lets just say the Bills ended up 6-10 and picked in the early teens. The Bills very well might have picked Nick Fairley, who's probably the 2nd best DT in the draft behind Dareus. Is there a huge difference between Fairley (I know he's injured now) and Dareus? I bet in a few years time we'll know but nothing is certain. But consider this... would the outlook be brighter coming off a 4-12 season and gaining Dareus or coming off a 6-10 season and gaining Fairley. I'd take the latter 100% of the time.

The Packers were tied for 4rd in Popularity without correcting for market size, and that number was calculated last September, prior to the Super Bowl win, while Brett Favre was still a Viking, and pressure was still on GM Ted Thompson because he once again neglected to sign any FA's during the 2010 off-season. I think you'd understand GB's rabidness better if you ever visited GB (maybe some of you who made the trip to GB last September can back me up here). I'd be happy with the #4 position if I was you, because its remarkable that the Bills have scored so well given their recent lack of success, and that's a credit to the Bills fans for sticking by their team through thick and thin.

Nick Barnett is not injury prone. Before the ACL and wrist injuries, he started 87 of his previous 89 games. One game he missed was his rookie season, and I forget what it was. The other missed game was in 2006 and it was a broken hand that he ended up playing the rest of the season with after missing the one game. Not exactly... Barnett watched the game from the sidelines at Cowboy's stadium

Thanks, and I would say all of those statements are untrue or at least misrepresented. He's 30 years old, which isn't that old for a LB, and he has plenty of good years in his future. In 2009 and 2010 after he was back 100% from the ACL, he didn't seem to have lost significant speed, and the wrist shouldn't have any impact on his play... in fact he wanted to play with the injured wrist last season, but the doctors talked him out of it as it could have ruined his entire hand for life. He's definitely not injury prone, and he was known for being extremely durable before tearing his ACL in 08... up to that point he started 87 of 89 games. The Packers would have liked to keep him, but they were right at the salary cap ($64,000 below the cap) before releasing Barnett or signing any rookies. It made sense for both sides to part ways. The Packers get cap room, and Nick gets to start. He'd still be a Packer if Desmond Bishop didn't play so well. EDIT: If you guys are interested in what we think of him, check out the comments on this packer forum. While a small minority were glad to see him go, most liked him and thought he was good player.

As someone who's watched Nick Barnett since he entered the league, I'll say you guys are getting a great player. The real reason that Barnett was released was because he lost his job because of injury. When he injured his wrist last year, two things happened for the Packers. First, Desmond Bishop finally got on the field after being stuck on the bench despite wowing people during the preseason but was always blocked by Hawk and Barnett. Second, Hawk moved over to strong side LB and took over as the guy that calls the plays in the huddle. Both guys thrived with their new roles, Bishop became the playmaker that everyone thought he'd be, and the defense thrived under Hawk's leadership (which was actually less intense than Barnett, but was described as being the same whether they were getting drove on or whether they were shutting a team down). So, Barnett wasn't released from bad play, but rather because of a log-jam at the position, and he had the highest cap number and injuries in two of the last three seasons. So here's my off the cuff scouting report on Nick Barnett for you guys: The Good: He moves well sideline to sideline with good speed, and plays through the whistle. He's a very good tackler, assignment-sure and he's versatile as he's descent in pass coverage, can blitz the QB fairly well, and has even gotten the occasional pick. He's high intensity, and he loves football and will interact with fans (through twitter). Great personality and a team leader. With the exception of the ACL in 08 and the wrist last year he's been extremely healthy. The Bad: He can be beat on deep passes up the middle if he's matched up against a tight end (which is probably true for most ILB's). He uses his Samarai sword celebration way too often, like after tackling the running back after a 1-yard gain on 1st and 10, one play before they give up a 20-yard pass. Will sometimes get in trouble by saying too much on twitter. He's pretty consistently been that guy who's always come just short of a pro-bowl in several of his years. He was first team all-pro in 07. An above average LB who became the odd man out after his injury. If you want to see a bit of his personality,

Jason Wied's Bio. Seems to have a background in law. The $34/person does seem incredibly low, and the only way I could see such a small number is if there is almost nothing in the community in the form of Bills-themed restaurants and bars in the area surrounding RWS, and very few people come in from out of town for the home games... I'm not familiar enough with the Bills to say that it does or doesn't sound right for the franchise. As far as the total economic impact, I know you can measure the impact as "gross" or "net", of which net would be a much lower figure... don't ask me how its calculated though and which one was reported at the shareholder's meeting (I don't know).

I stumbled across this thread when I was googling for something that Jason Wied said at the shareholder's meeting two days ago, and thought I could add some insight. For one thing, I am a Packer fan and I was there at the Green Bay Packers Shareholder's meeting when Jason Wied threw out the numbers you guys are talking about... I'm not a shareholder, but a good friend of mine who is, invited me to attend (each shareholder gets up to 4 tickets). The numbers he was talking about was the economic impact the team has on the community, so that would include the direct impact from tickets and merchandise as well as money spent at hotels and restaurants brought in as a result of the Packers. He said the Packers have an economic impact of $280 million (I forget the exact number, but within 10 mil), so that would mean that its divided by about 250,000 people or roughly the population of Brown County where Green Bay is located. I'm not sure what the source is for the other numbers that Wied quoted, and I don't know enough about the Bills or the other teams mentioned to comment on those numbers, but here are the main factors IMO for the high economic impact per capita in Green Bay: -They play in the league's smallest market leading to a small denominator as BearNorth mentioned. -Lambeau Field, ever since the 2003 renovation, is a year-round destination that's open 365 days a year. The Packer pro-shop has taken in the most revenue of all 32 teams (and thats not just this year). The Green Bay Packer Hall of Fame underneath the Lambeau Field Atrium has more visitors each year than the Pro Football Hall of Fame in Canton, Ohio. So, while all NFL teams draw in out-of-towners for home games, as mrags mentioned, the Packers have a huge impact every day of the year. -They don't have a small market fanbase. They have a huge Statewide and National fanbase that rivals even the most popular franchises. Just as an example, at the shareholder's meeting Thursday, I talked to guys from Arizona, Nebraska, Massachusetts, Virginia and another from Nebraska... 3 of which came in solely for the shareholder's meeting. So they'll fill the hotels, restaurants and casino in the area year round. On gameday? .adlts=4&strf=7&search=Continue&hotel.chkout=09/09/11&type=hotel&hotel.keyword.key=green%20bay,%20wi"]If you go on orbitz and search for a hotel room in Green Bay the night of the regular season opener, it'll give you a list of 40 hotels that don't have any rooms available. In fact the closest hotel with rooms for that day is 25 miles from the stadium. -The fans support the team very well. The media covers them year-round. During the season they have a separate Packers section in the local paper. My favorite radio program "Green and Gold Today" aires year round. I also usually make it to one training camp practice a year, and almost always meet people from across the country that are visiting to see the stadium. For their training camp practices they'll typically have a couple thousand spectators every day. They have permanent stands installed at their practice field that hold 1,500 fans (which they fill). Next week, the Packers have their annual "Family Night", which is basically a glorified practice where they sell tickets for $10 each, and they consistently sell out the Stadium, because for some fans, Family Night is their only chance to see their team in Lambeau... and they televise it on local TV... for a practice. So Green Bay is crazy when it comes to their Packers and it shows in these economic numbers. Also... here's an article that I saw a while back about the impact that the lockout would have on local businesses in Green Bay. They said that Edgeworth Economics estimated a loss of $20 million per game if games were lost due to the lockout. Which would be $200 million over the course of the season (including 8 regular season and 2 preseason home games). That makes up a large portion of the $280 million economic impact.