NastyNateSoldiers
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On 5/15/2024 at 11:28 PM, Shaw66 said:
Bills fans have spent the first five months of 2024 talking about receivers: Whom the Bills have and whom they should get. The longer I’ve listened to that discussion, the more I’ve come to the conclusion that fans haven’t really internalized what’s happening in pro football.
In short, I think that receivers are following in the footsteps of their cousins, the running backs. Fans, and the New York Giants, were late to realize that in terms of team performance, there isn’t much difference between having a great running back and having a really good one. And you almost always can find a really good one. There’s always a Singletary, a Cook, a Pacheco, or someone else. In earlier eras, if you had a Jim Brown or an Earl Campbell or a Barry Sanders, you were a contender. Not now. Now, you can have a Derrick Henry and, well, you have some great highlights, but highlights don’t get it done any more.
Why did that happen to running backs? Two reasons: First, young players keep closing the gap between what the great players can do and what the next level of really good players can do. They learn the moves of the great players, and they condition themselves to be nearly as strong and as powerful. Second, the defenses have matured – the players are bigger, stronger, faster, so that a guy with Jim-Brown talent now finds a defense full of big, strong, fast defenders, and the coaches have schemed their defenses in ways that allow their big, strong, fast defenders to close gaps and gang tackle in ways that just weren’t done in earlier generations. Maybe some 250-pound guy who runs like LaDainian Tomlinson will come along, but that’s unlikely.
(As an aside, the same thing is happening in the NBA. In less than ten years, the league has filled up with guys who shoot threes like Steph Curry, guys who are bigger, stronger, and quicker than Steph. And the defenses have gotten smarter. The Warriors of five years ago would be good today, but not dominant in the way they were.
(And, by the way, there’s a whole generation of pro golfers who have caught up to the greatness of the early Tiger Woods. They don’t stand out like Tiger because, well, there are a lot of them.)
And now we see it happening to receivers. Again, the difference between truly great and very good has gotten smaller, the number of very good receivers has increased. It’s happened for the same reasons that it happened to running backs. Receivers have gotten about as big and fast as they are going to get. The difference in speed between a 4.3 guy and a 4.4 or even 4.5 guy just isn’t very important – 4.5 is plenty fast enough. Kids in high school practice catching balls one-handed, practice tucking the ball away after the catch, etc. By the time receivers have gotten out of college, a lot of them have speed, route-running technique, and catching skills that rival what some of the best NFL players had ten years ago. In other words, it’s become almost impossible to get better physically in a way that makes any one receiver a dominant player.
In addition to the younger receivers closing the talent gap, the defenders and the defenses they run have improved, too, for the express purpose of stopping the physically dominant receivers. If you want to win in the NFL, you simply cannot let one player get 150+ yards against you, rushing or receiving, so you create defenses to stop them. You shadow running backs, you double cover receivers, and then you develop nuanced variations off your defenses to slow down the opponent’s star player. Quickly, other teams adopt your ideas. The result is that even the very best running backs and receivers are not stringing 150-yard games, back to back to back, all season long. Yes, every once in a while a Tyreek Hill comes along, a physical freak, and he does string great games for a while, but it’s just a matter of time before teams adjust.
What about all the great young receivers out there? Well, I think there’s an important distinction to be made between great receivers and great production. A guy like Julian Edelman was not a great receiver, in the classic Hall of Fame sense. He had great production because of the circumstances he was in, and because he was the right guy to take advantage of those circumstanes. Cooper Kupp is another. Amon-Ra St. Brown is another. These guys are all over the league, guys with excellent speed, very good ball skills, and brains. They have great production, but it isn’t so much that they create the production – they just fit the scheme and get production because they have the skill to take advantage of the opportunities that their offenses create.
I’m not saying those guys aren’t good football players. What I’m saying is that they are the Pachecos and Cooks and Singletarys of the receiving world. What I’m saying is that teams are discovering that the physical difference between OBJ and St. Brown does not translate into an important difference in production on the field, just like the difference between Saquon Barkley and Pacheco.
What about the true studs, the OBJs and the DHops of the world? The guys who actually create their production? Well, both of those guys came to greatness on their original teams, were true sensations and great weapons, and then were somewhat surprisingly dealt to other teams, where they never recovered their initial luster. Now they’ve been reduced to hired guns that teams hope can somehow reclaim their greatness or at least be reliable 4th receivers.
The bottom line is, I think, that the game has moved on from the days when the ideal was to have a true stud skill player on offense (other than your QB). If you had a true stud, you gave him the ball every time you could. In fact, teams have discovered that having a guy who is so good that he demands the ball is a negative, not a positive. When you have a Derrick Henry or an OBJ, they’re only useful if you give them the ball a lot, and that limits your offense. Having a guy like Stefon Diggs, who is prone to sulking if he doesn’t get a catch in your first series, is a liability.
The Bills certainly seem to have adopted this thinking.
GO BILLS!!!
The Rockpile Review is written to share the passion we have for the Buffalo Bills. That passion was born in the Rockpile; its parents were everyday people of western New York who translated their dedication to a full day’s hard work and simple pleasures into love for a pro football team.
I agree with you too a degree Shaw66. Basically all teams and players have gotten bigger faster stronger and more intelligent no matter the position. What you're saying about RB and Wr can basically be said about any other positions.
The difference in every NFL game is just a couple plays and those couple of plays can come from anywhere and from nearly any player on the field. To me what makes the difference is coaching and philosophy as well as difference makers no matter the position.
Finding these difference makers are what truly makes that difference just look at the Chiefs how many plays did Chris Jones make at critical times during the Chiefs Superbowl runs or Hill , Kelce and Mahomes ?
If you do a comprehensive study on Superbowl winners u will start to see a common theme other then having a few difference makers on each team you also have these ultra aggressive playing styles and Mentalities from these teams.
Most champions have a physical identity and a mental edge and they play schemes that fit those styles . A bunch of NFL teams won Superbowls playing man to man clutch and grab defense in the secondary not many win playing predominantly zones except for a few. Looking at the Chiefs and Pats the Buccaneers a few yrs bk the Broncos I can go on and on talking about teams that played these physical styles that won it all
At the end of the day there's no true formula to winning but u can get an idea about what's needed to have a chance. Some teams get it some don't . I don't believe McBeane has the defensive schemes to be a champion neither do they have the difference makers to do so other then Allen. That's just my opinion hopefully McBeane can prove me wrong and get us over the hump .. Go Bills
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4 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:
Anyone who says that Beane hasn't tried to help Josh this offseason needs to stop trolling the board. While I'm not the biggest MVS fan he definitely is improved depth to what had previously. He could be a good #3/4 WR with speed on the outside.
We won't really know the answer until the season starts but on face value alone this wasn't the off-season the Bills fans wanted for our offense.
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On 5/9/2024 at 5:42 PM, Paup 1995MVP said:
That’s a lazy opinion. Everyone can run at the skill positions in the NFL. Do you think Shakir is slow? Ask the Steelers what they think of his movement. Samuel is fast also. James Cook is fast. Hell Josh Allen is fast at QB. We let Poyer and Hyde go because they got older and slower. Our LB’s can all move.
And don’t forget football is a physical game. You have to be tough in the trenches. That is how Beane has built the team. Good on both lines. Watch the way defenses play now. Teams keep their DB’s back to take away the deep ball. No one is overly successful throwing the deep ball now including Mahomes. It’s a lot of short and intermediate passing, and hope for good YAC. That’s why Kincaid will feast this year. And btw he can run also.
THE Bills philosophy has been super solid the past 5 years. We need to stay healthier on defense this year. And peak as the season heads toward the playoffs. Getting rid of Diggs will be good for the offense. He became a cancer last season and sucked in the playoffs all 4 years.
i am excited about the team with a lot of new players. As a fan going through the offseason and heading into a new season, all you want and hope for is a solid chance to win. Beane gives us that every year. How it goes once the season starts and plays out remains to be seen. But I love the organization and how we build a team every year.
Of course everyone can run at the skill positions in the NFL just like every Olineman can block or defensive players can tackle. Obviously there's some major context that goes into that. Calling Samuel a speedster when yds per catch is 10.7 for his career is misjudgement by you. He's a career possession WR never showed that speed your we're talking about which is game breaking speed. Shakir is average speed himself is that the end all be all no it's not but it doesn't mean the Bills are not lacking speed either because they definitely are.
Most fans, pundits ,media and absolutely most coaches and GMs will agree the Bills don't have a blazer on this team. That in my opinion is doing a major disservice to Josh Allen. You say today's NFL teams are taking away the deep ball I agree with that but u need speed for teams to employ those deep safety shells and if u don't have it teams will use different schemes on defense taking away other things you do well.
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On 5/9/2024 at 5:42 PM, Paup 1995MVP said:
That’s a lazy opinion. Everyone can run at the skill positions in the NFL. Do you think Shakir is slow? Ask the Steelers what they think of his movement. Samuel is fast also. James Cook is fast. Hell Josh Allen is fast at QB. We let Poyer and Hyde go because they got older and slower. Our LB’s can all move.
And don’t forget football is a physical game. You have to be tough in the trenches. That is how Beane has built the team. Good on both lines. Watch the way defenses play now. Teams keep their DB’s back to take away the deep ball. No one is overly successful throwing the deep ball now including Mahomes. It’s a lot of short and intermediate passing, and hope for good YAC. That’s why Kincaid will feast this year. And btw he can run also.
THE Bills philosophy has been super solid the past 5 years. We need to stay healthier on defense this year. And peak as the season heads toward the playoffs. Getting rid of Diggs will be good for the offense. He became a cancer last season and sucked in the playoffs all 4 years.
i am excited about the team with a lot of new players. As a fan going through the offseason and heading into a new season, all you want and hope for is a solid chance to win. Beane gives us that every year. How it goes once the season starts and plays out remains to be seen. But I love the organization and how we build a team every year.
You think our Dline is good? I think it's average at best and considering all the assets they put into it we should be much better on the Dline.
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On 5/6/2024 at 10:13 PM, Logic said:
One interesting thing I read today is that, because of the way compensatory picks are calculated, the Bills may want to limit the snaps of Mike Edwards and Mack Hollins this year, because if they exceed a certain amount, it jeopardizes the two picks the Bills are scheduled to receive.
Similarly, to ensure the best chance at receiving the picks they think they'll be getting, the Bills have to hope that Tim Settle plays a lot of snaps for Houston -- but Houston is surely aware of this, too, and may limit Settle's snaps for their own compensatory pick reasons.
Just a fascinating aspect of the minutiae that goes into calculating compensatory picks. I have no idea whether or not the Bills care enough to actually limit Edwards and Hollin's snaps. To be honest, I bet they do.I never knew about the snap rate as accordance to comp picks until the NFL stiffed us from the 3rd Rd pk we should've gotten from losing Edmunds.
In my opinion it's a horrible way to factor the comp picks. A player can get injuries and still be great the rest of the yr or the following year. The NFL is not acting on good faith by adding these guidelines to the comp formula. Teams do base there entire off-seasons on these supposed comp picks and it's stupid in my opinion to have anything else in the formula other then what said player received in his contract. It's not the Bills fault that Edmunds didn't reach the threshold for snaps because he was hurt we still lost a big piece of our defense by not resigning him.
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5 hours ago, Mikie2times said:
Dorsey was the QB coach, McD was the defensive coordinator, Beane was Assistant GM. They went to the Super Bowl that year losing to the Broncos. Looking at the roster two thing concerned me. They seem to be constructed in similar fashion as we have been. Specifically the WR neglect seems pretty apparent in the make up of both teams. They seem to be MUCH more talented than any version of the Bills we have seen thus far. It's nearly at every position. Beane has had a good amount of time working on our roster. This was a very good Carolina team but I don't like that it appears we have a deficit against them in nearly every position.
QB - This was Cams MVP season, but still would rather have Josh
Cam Newton
RB - Both went to the Pro Bowl that year, Stewart was actually a really good back at that time. This is close but nod to Carolina.
Jonathan Stewart
Mike Tolbert
WR - It's possible our current WR room is better than the one they fielded in 2015 🤢. Ginn was very explosive but nobody had over 750 yards. Our WR units have been better the last few years which is really concerning as far as how Beane views the position.
Ted Ginn Jr
Jerricho Cotchery
Devin Funchess
Corey Brown
TE - Olson was an absolute monster. Very high hopes for Kincaid but hard to put him in Olson's class at this stage
Greg Olson
OL- Two all pros and Michael Oher. Nod to Carolina
T Michael Oher
LG Andrew Norwell
C Ryan Kalil
RG Trai Turner
RT Mike Remmers
DL - Short was a pro bowler. This was the young version of Star. I would say DL is pretty close.
DE Charles Johnson
DT Star Lotulelei
DT Kawann Short
DE Jared Allen
LB - One of the best LB cores of the decade. Not close.
Shaq Thompson
Luke Kuechly
Thomas Davis
DB - When we had pre injury Tre and younger Poyer and Hyde we probably get that nod. That unit hasn't been intact for a bit though.
CB Charles Tillman
CB Josh Norman
SS Roman Harper
FS Kurt Coleman
I'm surprised Dave Gentleman hasn't been hired by the Bills he was the GM for those Panthers . McBeane probably offered him a job Gentleman probably wants to go into retirement.
The Bills are not top heavy talented other then Josh we have no real difference makers on this team. The Bills like hard working culture players and we usually have good depth that's why we've been successful up to this point ntm our division has been pretty much easy the last few years .
Beane doesn't put great priority on speed at the skill positions and that's a skill thats paramount in today's wide open spread game. I liked this draft I believe there's some good football players that have potential to start at some point in the near future. All in all I agree with you it seems like another early playoff exit coming in the future with the same talking points next off-season.
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On 4/28/2024 at 1:07 AM, Logic said:
I'll start by saying that this was far from my favorite Bills draft.
I'm usually Mr Optimistic when it comes to draft classes, but I thought this year's class was just...fine. It was like if you fed Brandon Beane's draft tendencies and the Bills' needs into ChatGPT and asked it to spit out the 2024 Bills draft class. It was completely on brand, it filled the needs we all knew the team had, and it'll probably end up producing a few average players and a couple good ones.
Ho-hum. Nobody in this class makes me stand up and say "that guy's really gonna help the Bills get over the hump and win a title".
Onto the picks:
1. Keon Coleman - I was not a fan of this pick. For a team whose WR corps needed more speed and separation, this guy made the LEAST sense to me of all the 1st/2nd round WR prospects. Josh Allen has historically thrived with fast, shifty WRs who separate well, and has not clicked with big-bodied guys who struggle with separation. So adding Keon Coleman? It feels like "Square peg, meet round hole". He does have great athleticism and RAC ability for a man his size. He's also young to the position, having played football full time for only two seasons and being only 20 years old. I have concerns about his ability to play X in the NFL, and I'll believe that he's a better fit as a big slot until proven otherwise. Here's hoping I'm wrong about Coleman. The absolute ceiling I see for him is "Solid WR2". Not what I was hoping for in a star studded WR class and with a crying need at the position.
2. Cole Bishop - Looks like he should be just what the doctor ordered at safety for the Bills. He seems to be more Poyer than Hyde, in that he's at his best in the box and playing the run, and he packs a wallop when he tackles. He appears to have untapped man coverage potential, with Dalton Kincaid saying Bishop usually got the better of him 1-on-1 at Utah. He also has freaky speed for the position and a great mental disposition. Should be an easy fit in the Bills' scheme. At the VERY least, I expect him to contribute from day 1 as a dime 'backer, but I'll ultimately be surprised if he doesn't wind up starting at one of the two safety spots by midseason.
3. Dewayne Carter - Good bull rusher, great motor, tons of experience, impeccable character. Seems like a 1T/3T 'tweener. Quickly apparent from his interviews that he's one of the smartest, most likable, easy to root for guys you'll ever see in the NFL. Should be a quality rotational tackle for the Bills and seems like, in time, he will provide quality leadership and a steadying presence on the D-line. May never be a big play guy, but may at least be a "dirty work" guy who allows others around him to thrive.
4. Ray Davis - Hard running inside guy with great vision, ability to get skinny, contact balance, and underrated breakaway ability. Had the most receiving TDs in 2023 of any SEC running back in 25 years. Should provide a nice change of pace to James Cook without the Bills necessarily losing anything in the pass game when he comes on the field. An older prospect, but I don't care, because he's a running back, and he won't be here past his first contract anyway. Another "likability" and leadership All-Star. Davis should provide steadiness and depth, but doesn't do anything that wows you, and I'm not sure he moves the needle much on offense.
5. Sedrick Van Pran - Tons of starting experience at Georgia. Has some traits reminiscent of Mitch Morse in terms of quickness, twitch, and ability on the move. Stop me if you've heard this one before -- lauded for his leadership. Should provide a good backup plan to Connor McGovern at center and/or provide competition at that position. It will not shock me if this guy is starting by year two. Seems like a great value at this point in the draft. One of my favorite picks.
5. Edufuan Ulofoshio - What do you want me to say? You didn't think the Bills would let a draft pass them by without selecting a late round special teams linebacker, did you? The room is starting to get a bit crowded with Milano, Bernard, Williams, Morrow, Spector, and Ulofoshio. However...the Bills lost ST stalwarts Dodsen, Matakevitch, and Neal, and needed some reinforcements there. That's what Ulo seems to be. I'll be surprised if he ever amounts to more than that, but at this point in the draft, that's what you're getting.
5. Javon Soloman - Undersized speed rusher (though he does have a great wingspan for the position) who had absolutely eye-popping production at Troy, where he out-produced Demarcus Ware and Osi Umenyoira. He can be a designated pass rusher and special teams guy and can learn from his idol Von Miller, after whom he says he models his game. Very much a boom/bust prospect, with seemingly equal potential to be the steal of the draft or an outright bust. I liked this pick a lot, and I'm betting on the former over the latter.
6. Tylan Grable - What do you want me to say? Did you think the Bills were gonna let a draft go by without taking a project offensive tackle late? I don't have much to say about this guy. He's just like Tommy Doyle or Luke Tenuta before him: a developmental tackle prospect who's a long shot to make the 53-man roster. With VanDemark and Collins already in place as backup OTs, it's hard to see this guy making the roster.
6. Daequan Hardy - Special teams guy. Standout punt returner and gunner. I usually look to Bills' late round corners with excitement, because they're usually big-bodied guys with zone eyes who only dropped due to underwhelming athleticism. Hardy does not appear to fit that mold. He appears instead to be a punt return candidate and, beyond that, I'm not sure where he'd fit in. His only hope is as a nickel, but the Bills are obviously set there with Taron Johnson.
7. Travis Clayton - At least this one's fun. A guy from the International Pathways program who has never played a down of football in his life. But he's 6'7", 301 lbs and runs a 4.79. The hope is that he turns into the next Jordan Mailata. A fun story and will be fun to track, but obviously a longshot and likely a practice squad guy at best.
Overall, it was clear that leadership, maturity, and experience were high priorities for the Bills this year. Again and again, they picked guys who were team captains and lauded for their leadership abilities. Given all the leadership that walked out the door this offseason, that certainly makes sense. Again and again, they picked guys with lots of starting experience, guys who shined at the Senior Bowl, and guys who have their heads screwed on straight. Given that they will be counting on some of these guys to contribute from day one, and given that they seem to be doing a bit of a locker room reset, this also makes sense.
The reason that I am ultimately unexcited by this year's draft class is this: I wanted the Bills to prioritize building around Josh Allen. I wanted them to either take a swing for the fences by trading up for a star receiver, or -- failing that -- to go the Packers route and draft a handful of skill position players to surround him with. If they were unable to acquire great quality, then I hoped they would at least acquire quantity. I fear that in choosing Keon Coleman, they may have failed to achieve the "quality" goal, and in refusing to draft any other receivers, they also failed to achieve the "quantity" goal. And Ray Davis is the definition of "uninspiring" at running back. He'll be a fine depth player and grind out tough yards, I'm sure, but he doesn't move the needle much on offense. Neither Coleman nor Davis seem like they upgrade the offense. Just...status quo at best.
In a year where I felt the very TOP priority was to improve on offense, I feel the Bills failed to meaningfully do so. In an offseason where I hoped they'd make a bold move or two to try to find an elite player for this offense, they failed to try. After hearing "Josh needs more weapons" for a couple years running, he now seems to have less. The WR corps seems to have regressed, and seems to lack any true downfield explosiveness or viable deep threat.
This draft class was not a disaster, by any means. it seems FINE. Just fine. Keon Coleman doesn't scream "Alpha WR1" to me. Ray Davis seems like an average NFL backup. Cole Bishop and Javon Soloman seem to perhaps have playmaking potential on defense. Beyond that -- meh.
When the Bills decided to go young and start a roster reset, I had hope that Beane was gonna try to do things differently, since the old way he was doing things didn't get the Bills over the hump. They've been hitting too man singles and doubles over the years and not enough home runs. Instead, he appears to be doing things exactly the same way this time around. He seems to be content to collect character/culture guys, whose ceiling is "good, solid NFL player", rather than taking any risks or big swings for potential stars. He hasn't really taken those swings, to my estimation, since the Allen/Edmunds class. THAT'S why I'm disappointed in this draft class. It seems fine, solid, steady, and logical, but it doesn't seem like it'll move the needle much.
I will move on to hoping that the post June 1st money infusion brings us a quality veteran receiver and maybe a pass rusher either via free agency or trade. Failing that, it would be hard for me to conclude anything other than that it looks like the Bills are poised to take a step back this year. 2025 looks promising in terms of cap space and draft capital, but if it's gonna continue to be "business as usual" for Brandon Beane, then I'm not sure how excited I should allow myself to get for that.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.The Bills #1 priority in the draft is BCA - Best Character Available .
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On 5/6/2024 at 3:01 PM, Kirby Jackson said:
I understand that. They were okay going from 28 to 32 not knowing if Coleman would be there. What is the Pats went to 31? What is SF took him instead of Pearsall? There’s layers to this…
I understand that. See above ^. When they went from 28 to 32 there was no guarantee that Coleman OR Legette would be there.
If the 49ers took Coleman Leggette would be a Bill and we would have the better player.
Just now, NastyNateSoldiers said:If the 49ers took Coleman Leggette would be a Bill and we would have the better player.
Looks like the Bills love to draft BCA , Best Character Available.
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7 hours ago, gjv said:
It's common knowledge that Pittsburg native Gamar Hamlin grew up a Steelers fan, and has dreamed of wearing the Black and Gold. Sure, I know many NFL players never get the chance to play with their favorite team. But I think Hamlin's case is unique.
Just cut him and let him sign there. Why would Pitt give us anything for Hamlin? He's a bkup
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Coleman Prediction for season
Targets 100
Targets per game 5.8
Catches 60
Catch Rate 60%
Per Catch 14.1
Yards 850yds
TDs 8
I have the catch rate even under average numbers at usually 63.3% I believe this is a floor for a full rookie season from Coleman especially if he starts all 17 games . If he doesn't reach this threshold I close to it that's gonna be a problem.
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On 4/28/2024 at 1:12 AM, Meatloaf63 said:
With all the offseason moves, and adding just Coleman in the draft, did we do enough or will Beane look to trade or add a free agent after Trey’s money frees up?
I for one can’t believe we are finished, how about you?
On Paper it doesn't look like enough but I think some people here are underestimating what Shakir role will be in this offense.
I got Shakir
Targets 130
Targets per game - 7.64
Catches 95 Catches
Catch Rate 73%
Per Catch 14.5
Yards 1377 yds
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On 5/3/2024 at 1:44 AM, Buffalo_Stampede said:
Too bad we never went after DJ Moore.
Also McC & Chinn and last but not least Brian Burns. Seems like we only want the Garbage the Panthers have.
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21 hours ago, Pete said:
Eric Moulds
Ted Washington
If it's prime definitely TO and Evans why because nobody will stop are offense they will average 45 per game.
If it's prime and players that played in the playoffs at one pt
Moulds & TO
If it's strictly drought players u have to go Peters and Evans or u know what if it's pre injuries Sammy I'm taking I'm at Wr over Evans .
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On 5/3/2024 at 5:51 PM, Ben said:
Worth a shot right? Guys got all the talent in the world but has been immature. Maybe he's grown up some and been humbled?
He needs to be converted to TE! He can possibly be the next Darren Waller if he works hard enough.
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11 hours ago, strive_for_five_guy said:
I would LOVE if Carter is the next Aaron Donald. Don’t see it happening though, especially in his rookie season.If he's a Pat Williams I'm happy! 😄
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1 hour ago, Wizard said:
When Beane said the team is "in transition" what does that look like for you in 2024-2025.
For me, it means four (4 things).
1. Bills will be 10-7 and get a Wildcard
2. Bills will offload Miller and Knox and will have more cap space heading into 25-26 season
3. Bills will focus on finding a new punter, kicker, and a #1 DE and #1 WR with their top 3 2025-2026 draft picks.
4. With Bills having more cap space and and younger platers, Bills will extend Allen by 3 years.
5.
Sounds like 2 yrs of transition.
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2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:
Samuel. Hamlet. Isabella. Three guys on the roster right now with speed. I am sick to death of this stuff. Why assume there was a guy on day 3 that offers more?
I can imagine this is the exact way Beane would reply.
So your gonna say an oft injured Hamler and a journey man in Isabella is gonna all of a sudden become weapons in the NFL? or a career long possession wr in Samuel is all of a sudden going to become a deep threat? I don't know what football your watching . These are definitely not the answers and you will witness that come September and if I'm wrong I'll admit it.
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21 hours ago, The Jokeman said:
Bombs away isn't consistent. Yes, Allen can throw it 65 yards down field but to ask a WR to get open on that route or time things perfectly is no easy task as we saw with Diggs' playoff drop. Instead you play small ball to keep moving down field until get a TD or hopefully get a FG aka put points on the board. Sure you can throw a deep pass every so often to take a chance and/or keep the defense honest but to think you're going to hit one with any form of consistency is just foolish. I'll admit Coleman wasn't in my short list of WRs I wanted to us to draft. Yet I've been wrong before as I admit I never expected Josh Allen to be a top 5 NFL QB and even muttered Wrong Josh when he was drafted because watching the clips in college he wasn't always taking the way throw to move the chains and seemed like a guy who threw it long or a ball that most of the time wouldn't get completed. The more you watch the more you realize the best way to beat an opponent is don't beat yourself. As most games nowadays are won and loss by a handful of plays.
Obviously u can't throw the ball deep on every play but u do need the threat of being able to if it's not covered. As of right now this roster doesn't have that explosive speed threat on the outside. Teams are going to flood the short to intermediate passing lanes and dare us to hit them deep . By the very least the Bills needed to draft a speed wr after they selected Coleman and they failed to do so. It's a smack in the face of Bills fans when Beane mentioned players futures contracts for the reason why they didn't double dip. Tyrell Shavers are FN kidding me!
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15 hours ago, ShakAttack said:
I have to admit, this video is indeed a bit disappointing.
Especially if you compare it to the same video of Xavier Leggette.
It’s disappointing because Coleman is billed as the “contested catch guy” but if you watch all of Leggette’s targets, he has a higher success rate of coming down with those catches, and seems to be better at just about everything else as well.
For all the buzz about the trade KC, it’s the trade with Carolina that leaves me with more questions.
Do we know for sure that Leggette was not our guy?
For all those that say we wouldn’t have made the trade if Panthers were coming after our guy, ok, then what is the point of trading up one spot for either team in that case? Why would the Panthers make this trade if they weren’t worried about us taking Leggette??? They could have just had him with the next pick after we drafted Coleman if this was true.
Not sure I’m convinced we didn’t get screwed.
I think Coleman won the Character game over Leggette and he's 2 yrs younger then him plus he's a menacing blocker . Otherwise Leggette is better all around player in my opinion and has superstar potential.
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5 hours ago, YodaMan79 said:
I've been trying to think of a comp that we could hope to compare K. Coleman to. What do you guys think of Brandon Marshall as a comparison? He had a very good career, his stats surprised me. He's 24th in all-time yardage. Not bad for a 4th round pick. Look at the physical similarities (yes I know Coleman is a little lite):
Marshall:
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/brandon-marshall/32004d41-5237-0922-7f60-5556d0dc6ec1
Coleman:
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/keon-coleman/3200434f-4c29-5571-54fa-77236b775ae1
I heard this comp and would love for Coleman to be anywhere near as good as Marshall. The thing is Marshall was a 4th Rd pk for a reason and that was because of his measurables. With that all being said if Coleman puts up Marshall type numbers he will definitely exceed his draft position.
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12 hours ago, ShakAttack said:
Sorry if this was already posted, but here is a good video. While it does confirm that Coleman struggles with separation on deep routes, you can see him doing very well in creating separation on other routes.
The film of his struggles to separate vertically starts around 6:20.
After that, you will see some impressive route running in which Coleman is successful in separating from DBs.
Enjoy.
The problem is really not the player its that this team lacks a bonafide burner on the outside. If we signed Hollywood Brown instead of Samuel this pick would make alot more sense. Right now we're lacking speed on the outside in a big way.
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18 hours ago, DJB said:
This fixes everything
edit no it doesn't
Cephus ran a 4.73 so he’s slower than Coleman .
For F sakes
While Andy Reid and Brett Veach talk about Speed in Football Brandon Beane talks Basketball!
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6 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:
Lol, this is the saddest thread on here in a while. There are people on here that think this WR room is good. We are now suggesting ways to make it even better!! People are talking about adding (in no particular order): Chase Claypool, Kenny Golladay, washed Michael Thomas, washed OBJ, and washed Allen Robinson.
What are we doing here? The Bills needed to upgrade the WR room. They needed 2 boundary receivers at the top of the depth chart. They added one guy that was the most polarizing WR prospect, in arguably the greatest WR draft ever. That’s a massive failure. You aren’t going to dig yourself out by adding Kenny Golladay. As it stands the Bills have the worst WR group in the NFL. The TEs are good and the backs can catch but the WRs are last IMO.
I think it's the 2nd worst on paper #1 is the Pats.
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1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:
Every blue moon, an intrepid crime podcaster breaks a criminal case. But imagine your daughter was kidnapped and you had a binary choice: (A) You can have the FBI, with all its trained investigators, forensic scientists, labs, subpoena power, police connections, and other resources handle the investigation. (B) You can have Debi from Depew, who views herself as an investigative reporter because she podcasts from her mom’s basement, search for your daughter. I don’t know about you, but I’d choose A.
It's part of fandom to stand by our unfounded opinions, call the GM a moron, and generally spout nonsense. But, if we want to be honest about it, we’re all - to varying degrees - Debi from Depew.
Fans are notoriously lousy at assessing draft picks. Many of us criticized Beane when he picked Josh in the draft while few of us offered up flowers when he chose Milano. And, look, talent evaluation is hard. Go back and look at what sportswriters said five years ago about the draft. Their hit rate isn’t high. Even the analytic guys, armed with their algorithms and statistical analyses, aren’t good. They told us that if Josh became a successful NFL QB, it would shake the very foundations of all math, science, and human knowledge.
I doubt if there’s anyone on this board who knows as much about scouting college players as Tyler Pratt who starts researching and evaluating players at 5:30 am each day and keeps at it until 8pm. Tyler is an area scout for the Bills Personnel Department which includes 18 dedicated fulltime professionals, not including the admin folks, and is aided by 7 equally dedicated professionals in the Analytics & Football Research Department. While none of us matches Pratt hours and expertise, we don’t hesitate to act like we’re smarter than Beane and his entire, fantastically resourced organization.
So when someone starts spouting that Beane is an idiot because he drafted a slow wideout, a lineman with short arms, and a guy who never played football before, I just yawn. Debi from Depew doesn’t interest me. Beane and his team have spent millions of dollars, studied thousands of hours of tape, conducted hundreds of interviews. I just hope the Bills FBI (Foot Ball Investigative) unit is better than the FBI units at our rivals. Time will tell. But I trust Beane and his team of experts far more than Debi from Depew.
Study long study wrong! 😂 Jk
Actually I agree with u to an extent there's much more to it then just measurables and stats . Obviously there's scheme fit character fit and other things we don't know about .
Do u know who is the NFL version of Debi from Depew ? It's the Cincinnati Bengals I believe they have like 3 scouts only and they always seem to take the players rated highly by the media or the guys that are dropping due to character concerns and let me say the Bengals are damn good at drafting especially recently. Its just funny how that works and they are basically the admiration of all Debi from across the globe! 😂.
I'll be honest I'm definitely a Debi from Depew and have been one for nearly 30yrs. 😂
$23 million in CAP in 2025 if no more moves as of 5/14
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
I really hope your right about Allen having a decade left in him . I can see another 3-4 good yrs then the Cam Newton type decline kicking in due to injuries.