PushthePile
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Posts posted by PushthePile
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He wasn't injured during much of his second season was he? He started 15 games...
He played while injured alot of the season.
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and by leading his team to the playoffs, you mean riding on the back of a great defense? THe only reason the titans were even in 90% of their games was because the defense didn't allow the other team to capitalize on VY's gigantic amount of turnovers.
You are inaccurate and I question how many Titans games you have actually watched. I don't even like VY! I can't believe I'm even defending his play. Bottom line is he's not great but he's not terrible either. Clowns like you are incapable of putting together a reasonable conclusion, so you just spew the same garbage over and over again. The guy is not a bust yet and it's idiotic to try and prove he is.
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I hate to sound like a broken record, but I refuse to apologize for not wanting a QB with a 68.8 QB rating who's only gotten worse since his rookie year.
He played one year after his rookie season and was injured alot of it! What are you talking about?
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Vince Young, as he was in rookie year, is a hell of an athlete, but an absolute garbage passer. Which is why he'll never be anything more than a mediocre QB. Time and time again, it has been proven that you can't win consistently without a good passer. The titans may make the playoffs with him behind the helm, but they'll never reach the top unless VY becomes a passer.
9 TD, 17 INT seasons (22 TD and 32 INT's on his career) with a career 68 passer rating aren't going to take the titans anywhere. Sure he'll make the highlite reels, but if the titans want to win, VY will have to develop more into a passer and less of a scrambler. Collins is a huge reason why the titans did so well this year. He didn't turn the ball over. With young at the helm, chances are the titans go 9-7/10-6 instead of 13-3.
I might be crazy but the kid has only played two seasons. He makes mistakes sure but he makes up for alot of them with spectacular plays as well. Is it possible he could improve his passing? Vince Young never had to play in a traditional Qb role in college and I think he has adapted about as well as could be expected. IMO he was more about potential than he was polish coming out of college. I completely agree with you that he needs to be a passer first to have success in the NFL but that doesn't happen over night. Meanwhile prior to his injury he won games for his team with his athletic ability. You might be right that VY drops a couple more games than Collins this year. On the otherhand maybe the Titans aren't one and done in the playoffs and VY makes something happen where Collins couldn't.
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The guy wanted to kill himself and quit football 6 months ago. You call that a winner? I disagree with the poster that he's a draft bust, but he certainly isn't a solid QB and he hasn't played up to the level of the 3rd overall pick. That doesn't necessarily make him an all out bust, but he's not off to a very strong start in his career.
If he can overcome all the turnovers, his personal problems, and his inaccuracy, then he may be able to make it, but the people who think that he has some sort of all world talent or is a proven winner are mistaken.
I make my judgement that he is a winner based on his college record and NFL record. You can base it on his mental issues 6 months ago if you like. He does have all world talent and to deny it is foolish. All skill position players who get drafted in the top 3 have big time talent. Talent doesn't equal success but don't deny the obvious. Again, I'm not trying to say he's the next coming of Montana but take a break from the negativity people.
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I will get hammered for this post but the guy I would like to see Buffalo go after is...........DAVID CARR
I like this idea. David Carr is worth a look.
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I can only think of recent mistakes. I gave JP the benefit of the doubt way too much. I undervalued how good Fletcher was. I thought Lynch was going to be a mistake. I assumed everything Marv did was gold, until I looked closer ( as GM ). I undervalued Josh Reed for a long time. I overvalued Nate Clements. I laughed at the Flutie aquisition. I loved the Rob Johnson move. I believed Mike Williams was going to be one of the best ever.
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huh? Most of the titans wins were despite him. He almost lost many games because of his many turnovers.
He went 8-5 his rookie year, with four come from behind fourth quarter victories. He also scored on a long TD run in overtime that same year. He was awarded ROY and went to the pro-bowl. His 2007 season was effected by an array of injuries but he still led the team to the playoffs and engineered a handful of comeback drives. He was then injured in the beginning of the 2008 season and never returned. You can keep your stats! I prefer wins!
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But that's just the thing. Look at his stats, and there is absolutely nothing, nothing at all that you would define as success. He has not one redeeming quality to this point.
http://www.nfl.com/players/vinceyoung/profile?id=YOU617196
Those are his career stats, there is nothing impressive besides maybe his rushing yards, but that is negated by the fact that he's fumbled the ball 24 times.
http://www.nfl.com/players/vinceyoung/game...amp;season=2007
That's his game log for 2007, and the game log for his rookie season looks largely the same. He has 1 or 2 quality games in there, and nothing really points to any "flashes of greatness".
His numbers are comparable to some of the worst QBs in the decade, and (just for good measure) his career QB rating is 8 points below Losman's. He is simply not a good QB, and he won't be until he gets some arm accuracy.
I respectfully disagree. I'm not saying he's a worldbeater at this point but I get more out of watching him play than tallying up his stats. He was winning with the Titans before he got hurt and it wasn't despite him. His playoff team wasn't as good as this years team either. He's not going anywhere, so time will tell.
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Well that's how the majority of interceptions occur, and we rarely pressure the QB.
Sage you state the obvious. I'm suprised it's even being contested.
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Let me respond to your observations:
("Get a grip, your life shouldn't be dictated by who the owner of the Buffalo Bills)
Get a grip? So it is wrong of me to be upset or even disapointed with the Bills ownership. As a fan, I should suck it up and be content with losing season after losing season. As a smart fan, I realize that any success the Bills ever had was INSPITE of Wilson. Not because of Wilson. In fact Wison has run out of town anyone who knew anything about how to build a winner.
Again I am amazed that someone who is smart enough to type can not understand a simple point. My life is not dictated by Ralph Wilson. My loyality as a fan is. And that is because I supported this team for 28 years. The fact is I have a great life. Being a loyal fan does not mean that one whould follow a team blindly. Being a loyal fan is being patient during the rebuilding years. Spending the money during the down years to enjoy the product that is being developed in the future. Nothing is being developed for the future. Any talent the Bills have will leave the first chance they can. Why? because they want to be on a team that is competive and wins.
(you are a weakminded individual and bring shame to Bills fans)
A weak minded individual does not stand up for what is wrong. What Wilson is doing to the city of Buffalo is a shame. The Bills bring shame to the city of Buffalo. The people in Buffalo are hard working honest people. They care about thier town and about football. Wilson doesn't care about Buffalo. The difference between Ralph and myself is every week he looks at his bank account and looks to see how much money the team brought him. I look at my account every week and see how much money I have spent supporting the team.
I'm assuming you are a Bills fan. If you could give up following the Bills cold turkey then you haven't been a fan too long. Or you have not been a true die hard fan. I remember in the mid 80's walking down the streets of Silver Creek, NY and being laughed at for wearing a Bills jacket or hat. I was proud to be a Bills fan and I believed one day they would be a winner. I struggle with loving/hating the Bills because I have a history with the team. They are a part of who I am. And I don't want my loyality to be taken advantage of anymore.
I no longer believe in the Bills. Wilson has made is very clear he is content with the constant poor product on the field. DICK although he is a nice man and player freindly is not going to lead this team to a championship. Ralph knows this.. you know this. The media knows this. For any other team in the NFL (except Detroit) being a loser is unacceptable. For Buffalo it has become status quo.
What concerns me is that Wilson doesn't have to change the way he runs this team. Because of fans like you. You would love to see the Bills win. You'd even probably get excited if the Bills won the Super Bowl. But the reality is this: You are just as content to see them lose year after year after year. That is where you and I differ.
You and I differ in many ways my friend. I think it's obvious to most viewers how childish you are but I wish you luck in your quest and journey into manhood. It can be a longer journey for some.
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He hasn't been anywhere close to unstoppable since college. That's an insult to Cunningham. Cunningham was a great passer and Vince Young is not. The most important quality a QB can have is being an accurate passer, that's the most important physical tool...miles ahead of speed and arm strength, which are just complimentary.
You have a nasty habit of twisting words around. I said he has physical tools comparable to Cunningham. Cunnigham is obviously the superior player at this point. Vince Young has shown flashes of greatness in the NFL, whether you want to admit it or not and your a little quick to right off a talented player who has had early success.
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Until you provide a statistic that shows me the Bills had a significantly higher YAC rate as a team than the Ravens, that argument holds no weight. And Trent's first 5 games were MUCH superior to Flacco's. Are a QB's numbers down the stretch more important than his statistics at the beginning of the season? Clearly you trust QB rating as a grading system for QBs, and Trent had the higher QB rating this season. His was 85, Flacco's was 80. No bones about it.
In, one word yes. I want my quarterback playing his best down the stretch. Do you prefer he gets his best games out of his system early? Do you think it's significant that Trent beat out a rookie statistically in his first five NFL games? I think it's more telling that the rookie greatly improved as the season progressed and Trent completely fell apart. The Bills have arguably more weapons and better pass protection as well. The Ravens could barely let Heap leave the freaking LOS this year.
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No I'm 100% serious. I saw him play the Bills in a preseason game I think in 2007? and the guy looked like he was about to become the Michael Jordan of the NFL. Talent does not necessarily = results. He has shown flashes of brilliance ie. the Bills game in 2006 when he single-handedly beat the Bills in OP. Yes, he has struggled as of late, but to put him in the same sentence as those other jabronis is preposterous.
Vince Young is on par with Cunnigham as far as physical tools go. That's about as elite as you can get. He at times has been unstoppable.
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I happen to also have the opinion that the talent/youth of the team was a bigger problem than the coaching. I'm not going to tell you that the coaching staff was without flaw but I'm ok with giving them another chance. The fact that most people here blaim everything on the coaching staff shouldn't have any influence on your own opinion. I can respect any opinion out there but TSW has alot of sheep. With that being said, I disagree with your statement "great coachs take whatever talent they have and find a way to win". The NFL has "great" coachs get fired every year, did they forget how to be great?The patriots beat the Bills in the first game with a 4th string RB and a back up QB that hadn't played football since collage,that 4th string RB got over 100 yards rushing against the Bills.Great coaches take whatever talent they have and find a way to utilize them to produce wins,like the Patriots do.
Turk Schonert tried to install a high powered passing offense and never backed off that even with a back up QB in the game.much to his and the Bills downfall.
Alphadawg, are you Turk Schonert ? or perhaps related to him somehow,otherwise I honestly don't understand your vigorous defense of the Bills moronic play caller. Look at the numbers on this board,most of them think it was the coaching that was at fault this season and not the ill prepared players.
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This is the same response I Gave you in another post.
Actually, that is what I'm trying to do. After 28 years I'm done with this team. I've boxed up all my Bills gear. Cancelled NFL Sunday ticket and took Two Bills drive off as my start page. I'm looking into season tickets for the Panthers. My goal is that by the time the season starts the Buffao Bills will be dead to me. I hope I have this attitude as long as Ralph is the owner or DICK is the coach.
I'm just finding it really difficult after 28 years to just quit. And that makes me very, very angry. I get excited about the draft and then I have to remember I don't want to care and I get so angry. This sucks, and I detest Mr. Wilson for not caring about the team I am tying my hardest not to love and not to follow
You seem to be 28 going on 14. Get a grip, your life shouldn't be dictated by who the owner of the Buffalo Bills is. What do you do log into TSW in between boxing up all your crap and cancelling your Sunday ticket? No one cares if you are struggling with a love/hate realationship with the Bills. In fact if it's true you are a weakminded individual and bring shame to Bills fans. Spare us all the dramatics please!
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I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Vince Young will not be out of the NFL anytime soon. He could be dropped next week and more than half the NFL would be trying to figure out how to get this guy on their team. Like alot of young Qbs he has been wildly inconsistent but the difference is, Vince has a much higher ceiling. The Titans sure as hell haven't given up on him and he's going to be their future starter. Obviously he has had his personal issues this year but don't mistake that for something it's not. He's a competitor and I'd take him on the Bills in a second. I'm not saying I like him better than Trent but neither are a sure thing. When Vince has played well, he has played at a level that Trent hasn't shown. As far as Hardy goes, what has he shown at all? I know the 3 year rule that everybody likes to live and die by, but I don't get the comparison. While I don't advocate calling him a "bust", I refuse to stick my head in the sand and ignore his play until the third season. Watching how all three of these guys play the game is the only way to get a feel on their potential. The stats don't mean half as much.
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I agree with you that the product on the field is not any better. However, I do think this group of players is younger and has alot of room to improve.
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How did pointing out that Warner put the Cards in a near impossible situation sink my argument that his play wasn't all that great?
Warner played about as well as any Qb played all year against the Steelers. Just because the touchdowns weren't scored when Simon preferred them, doesn't mean they don't count. Take away Big Ben's fourth quarter stats while your at it and tell me what you get.
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I had no rooting interest in the game that would matter to anybody else.
And my observation came from a game where Warner played like crap for 50+ minutes.
P'burgh had the ball at midfield up by two scores with about 10 minutes left; what was the Stillers record they showed in similar situations? Something like 142-1? The Cards were extremely lucky to have even gotten back into it.
Warner's poor play put his team into a position to lose, not win.
You sunk your own argument.
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If the Bills managed to complete the free agency period of signing players, and then complete the draft and undrafted free agency periods, and somehow didn't get a player better than Kelsay... well, I don't even see how that's possible.
Anything is possible. They made it happen last year!
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Probably not. He'll be another year or two older by the time the Bills get a real head coach. My FA strategy now with Jauron being retained would be to spend as little as possible on players and do everything I could to eliminate highly paid unproductive players from the team so that there is maximum cap space available for the next coach. The Bills are taking '09 off for the most part.
Ha Ha Ha! What a turd!
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It is about body type, and also style.
For instance, Big Sam Adams looked like a nose tack;e, but he wasn't. Guys like him and Stroud seem to play for that quick first step penetration.
Stroud is much more of an agile DT than a NT. He could really use someone next to him to tie up blockers, instead of getting bowled over ala Kyle Williams.
Thanks Bill, I never really picked up on that. It's easy to be fooled into just looking at size I guess.
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statement from ralph.......I think it would be very damaging, speaking just for Buffalo now, to move that team," Wilson said. "I think it would be crushing to the fans if they didn't have that team, win or lose.
"I think as long as a team is not losing a lot of money … if ownership can't afford to stay, then they should move. But if they can get some help from the residents, the taxpayers and other people, they should stay.
What's in the Jacksonville water?
Where Does Vince Young Rank...........
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
I guess the only difference in opinion is that I see more potential there than you. I'm not pretending to be a Qb guru or anything, so for all I know the kid could end up being a bust. He's shown me enough to believe he can improve. To me you give players with great potential and a winning pedigree the benefit of more than two seasons. He has also been a strong leader in the past.