metzelaars_lives

Please find the thread I started about Josh Allen. For one, he was really good in 2016. I know way more about Josh Allen than you. So do these guys (see below). Also, his completion % is like 57% and he throws the ball downfield A TON but he misses "literally half his passes in the flat?" You need to look up the word "literally" in the dictionary.

Sure.

Almost ha. How do you know?

That is definitely not "clear."

Still amusing to me that in the TBD universe, Josh Allen sucks and isn't worth of getting drafted on Thursday or Friday but meanwhile, in reality, a lot of people have him going first overall.

I'm being 1000% serious. Who was the regular poster who was with me on the anti-EJ train and then split with me on Tyrod? I took a long time off so I'm having trouble recalling. He used to post on here all the time.

What do you disagree about? You said that if he was so good, he would have made guys around him draft-able. After his 2016 season, two of the guys around him got drafted, two more stuck on NFL rosters and played all season, and a fifth was eventually cut by the Saints. All of them offensive players, mind you. In no universe would FIVE players from a 2-10 team (their record prior to Allen arriving in 2016) have been on NFL rosters last year. So, like, I have checkmated you. This isn't a matter of opinion or something you can agree or disagree about. This is like me trying to tell you that Albany is the capital of New York, you trying to say it's Depew and then telling me it's just my opinion and you don't have time to debate me. It's OK for you to admit that I am right and you are wrong. Even Jerry would acknowledge I am right in this instance.

That's a reasonable post. I certainly understand the skepticism. Let me see if I can explain it a different way. He shows up in 2016- they had been a lousy program for a while and were 2-10 the year before- and takes the conference by storm. Here's this guy, who's 6'5" with an absolute cannon, running people over, beating a ranked Boise State team, beating a ranked San Diego State team, en route to a Mountain West Championship game- out of NOWHERE. Every game he plays in, he's all the talk from the announcers, he's the biggest guy on the field- he's almost like a man amongst boys out there. Literally the ONLY thing you would've liked to see different in 2016 from a stats standpoint is fewer INT's (he threw five in the season opener, his first game, at Nebraska) and a better completion % (I have gone over that part ad nauseam). Believe me when I tell you that, following the 2016 season, Josh Allen being thrown around as the #1 or 2 pick in the draft by MOST people was 1000% absolutely warranted. For a first year starter, with those tools, with all the highlight plays he made, taking over a 2-10 program and having that type of season- no one was questioning the hype whatsoever. No one. He had a great season. Period. The trajectory he was on after the 2016 season was absolutely pointing toward him being the guy. As far as 2017, I've said all that I can say. I knew his numbers would regress. If he had all those guys back, his numbers would've improved and he would've firmly cemented himself as the #1 guy in the draft. Alas, they didn't and he is viewed as a question mark by many. I totally get how you might look at his numbers in 2017 and say, "how can a guy put up THOSE type of numbers in the Mountain West Conference and be viewed as a top pick?" I totally get it. I would argue that there's way more to it than that. He did NOT get worse at football. The difference in the talent he had in 2016 vs. 2017 CANNOT be overstated. If you believe that Josh Rosen would've tore up the MWC with Allen's supporting cast last season, feel free to believe that. I don't believe he would have. All this being said, I still think Allen needs a year and would be best-suited going to the Steelers or the Chargers and I wouldn't be shocked whatsoever if he slips in the draft. But to suggest that he "wasn't good in college" is simply not true. He was REALLY good in 2016. REALLY good. And, again, look at what happened when he went out of the lineup in 2017! He was 8-3 last year- 8-1 against non-power 5 teams. I digress. P.S. Not sure where you're going with the "between the ears" thing. He is coachable, likeable, has an excellent attitude and scored the highest on the wonderlic of all the QB's at the combine.

That's easy to say (and so cliche at this point) but it's as good a barometer as any. If a guy's good, he's gonna find a way to a Pro Bowl. It's been so long, I can't even remember if you were pro or anti-EJ that summer of 2015 when a dozen or so of us spent way too much time on here arguing about the guy. I think you were with me on the anti-EJ train but then we became opponents as I was pro-Taylor and you were anti-Taylor. Do I have that right?

I see you have yet to respond to my post, responding to your post, where you said, "if he's so good then he would've made the players around him draft-able," to which I responded that he, in fact, had no less than FOUR teammates from 2016 in the NFL last season- three of whom never sniff the NFL if Josh Allen doesn't show up in 2016 (Tanner Gentry, Jacob Hollister and Chase Roullier). I'll hang up and listen. People who say that Josh Allen "stunk in college." For at least the 30th time, HE WAS VERY GOOD IN 2016. No animosity intended. In all seriousness, check out the thread I started re: Allen to read more about him.

You people have become a parody of a parody of a parody.

Of course he could. Even the most staunch anti-Allen people would agree on this. They wonder how and why but everyone recognizes it's a possibility if you're paying any attention to the draft. My whole point is that when the vast, vast majority of experts, analysts, scouts, etc. have Allen as a top four QB in this draft and you (not you per say) are thinking he should go in the fifth round and "he sucks," then maybe, just maybe, instead of spouting off about something/someone you know very little about, maybe try and understand why the people who know way more than you about the topic feel the way that they do. For instance, feel free to take a look at my Allen thread where I explain his completion percentage. And I'm not speaking to you directly.

You cited what he did in 2017 as if it were his only season as a college QB. I'm just tired man. I can't wait for this to be over. Did he look like a guy playing in week 1 with unheralded freshmen and sophomores who had never played college football before at every single skill position at a power 5 school in front of 90,000 people?

No. I never said I would. I'm saying that people claiming he "wasn't good in college" are wildly misinformed. He was very good in 2016. His 2017 numbers are extremely misleading. I'm not sure why the naysayers continue to ignore that he was very good in 2016, especially for being a first year starter. He did. He actually, literally, factually did. In 2016, three of his offensive weapons from that year are currently on NFL rosters (four if you include his center). The year before they went 2-10. Two of his offensive teammates literally got drafted in the 2017 NFL draft because of Josh Allen and the season he had in 2016. His tight end played in the Super Bowl for the Patriots last year. His #1 receiver dressed for the Bears a few times last year. His #2 receiver played in camp with the Saints. None of them (except his RB, he was already very good) would have sniffed the NFL without Josh Allen. Do facts matter anymore?

Josh Allen had 0 TD's against Iowa, right? Watch the play beginning at 3:58. This was his best offensive weapon in 2017, CJ Johnson. When I'm telling you he had no one, really believe me that he had no one.

Sure. He had a good offensive line, great receivers and a great coach in 2016. He was good in 2016. He had a decent offensive line, the worst running backs and receivers in all of division 1 and, still, a great coach in 2017. His numbers regressed. He didn't suddenly become worse at football. He was also 8-3 and 8-1 against non-power 5 teams. 2016 and 2017 were very different seasons for Josh Allen. The hype he garnered was a result of his 2016 season. Watch some tape of it.

Agreed. Jeff George did not have a successful career for a #1 overall pick. But he didn't suck. Josh Allen was really good in 2016. I watched every game he played that year and attended three of them. He played well enough to be named the MWC preseason player of the year going into 2017 and to have the Kipers and McShays of the world projecting him as the #1 overall pick last offseason. Again, that doesn't happen if you suck. I've now achieved broken record status. If you're so befuddled as to why he is garnering the type of he is, watch some highlights from 2016 and/or the three TD passes he made against Central Michigan in the bowl game this year.

He was the second-rated passer his first year, in 2016, when he had good players around him. He beat two ranked teams that year. It's a better conference than you think. It's a notch above the MAAC. Jeff George had a horrible attitude. Josh Allen couldn't have a better attitude. Jeff George didn't have a bad career.

EJ Manuel and Josh Allen, huh? You're talking about a guy who was projected to- and should have- gone in the third round in LITERALLY the worst QB draft (and worst draft overall) in NFL history vs. a guy who could go first overall in one of the better and deeper QB drafts in recent memory. That's OK though. Carry on.

He literally was chosen as the 2nd team all-MWC in 2016, his first year as a college QB, but that's OK, nothing matters anymore anyway.

Oh Jesus.

Definitely whichever QB they take in the first round.

1. I don't think how far Allen can throw a ball is relevant whatsoever. I do think how fast he can throw a ball is very relevant and most all experts would agree with me that there has been a correlation between MPH at the combine and NFL success. AGAIN, look at his first TD pass in his bowl game this year. I want your honest opinion: how may NFL QB's make that throw right now? Tom Brady doesn't. Peyton Manning could've never have dreamed of making that throw. It's at :33. Feel free to watch his other two beautiful TD throws as well. 2. Look at CBSsports.com and their mock drafts. Look at Charlie Casserley's mock draft. Look at Mike Mayock's rankings. Look at every mock draft on NFL Network. You really think that McShay and Kiper are the only two guys in the football world who anticipate Allen going toward the top of the draft? He's going to go toward the top of the draft. 3. I really don't care what Ralph from Dunkirk is saying in the other threads. That's precisely why I started this one.

Your record of knowing the difference between "their" and "they're" is slightly worse than mine when I was in second grade. I'm not saying they know who is gonna be good. I'm saying they know who the teams think are gonna be good. Don't forget, they are the ones who put out these mocks before anyone else. If you look at it from that perspective, they are really good at what they do. Every mock you see all offseason takes those two guys' mocks as a starting point and tweaks it from there.

Josh Allen was an A in his bowl game, an A at the Senior Bowl and an A+ at the combine. I implore everyone to watch the tape of the three TD passes he made in his bowl game this year. Each is impressive in its own way.