wardigital

I think you have a point to an extent, but what I would generally advocate wouldn't be G-rated, but PG-13 rated (maybe PG, if I'm being a particular hard ass). Earlier I mentioned that we saw a few young ladies flash cross-walkers at the Ralph last year. I wasn't about to run and find the nearest peace officer and demand that this terrible conduct be put to a stop. My wife wasn't too happy about it. And if I had a 9-year-old, or something, maybe I would have wanted to say something.

Yes, definitely. Also, thank you for understanding that when my sarcasm is sarcasm, and attempting to talk about this in a respectful manner. People who say that there is nothing left to gain from this forum miss out on a lot of that. There's a lot of pithiness that goes on, too, but I am able to respect your point of view much easier when communicate it as you have.

I have been to lots of games. I moved to Texas in May. I don't know how many games I've been to at the Ralph, over the years, I've lost count. I stopped going because the experience became less enjoyable. I don't think I would like Utah too much. I am not very big into religion. Sure, that's fine. I have no problem with people who want to drink then, I just don't understand it and wouldn't do it personally.

This is a good point. It does cut both ways. I, too, have observed security who it seemed like felt their only job was to make sure that no one in their section had a good time. The tough thing about this is that it's hard for it to be a judgment call. You don't want to be the guy who wants to drink and be crazy and be in a section where the security is being tight-ass, and you don't want to be the guy who brings his kids or his wife or something and be in a section where the security guard lets everything fly. So, in my opinion, there need to be hard and fast rules that they're making sure are being enforced. For me, I'd like to see them err on the side of caution. For others, they'd like to see them let it be a little looser. For whatever reason accounts from the last game appear to suggest that they're agreeing with me for the start of this season. But in seasons past they've totally gone the other way. They'll go with where they think the money is going. Drinking, as it turns out, is not the thing for me. On the other hand, I love football. I do wish you could go to a football game without being drunk. I don't see how that's a dig. I did not think you would find it insulting, or take it personally, if I suggested you might enjoy something without alcohol as much as you do with alcohol.

Well, I do stay home, because the game bothers me. Also because I love 1,100 miles away now. But before I did, I stayed home because the games bothered me, and when I come back, I think long and hard about going, and generally stay home. But I could just as easily say, "Tighten it up a little, if the rules bother you stay home". It's the same thing. It's what you view as a free experience at the Ralph versus what I do. And the Bills and league will chase the money. For whatever reason, this season the Bills and league seem to think that the money is in the people who are turned off by going, otherwise I don't think all of these people complaining about their tailgates being changed would have much to complain about. I don't know that, that's the case, but I'm glad for it. Who says I don't run a business? I obviously don't run an NFL team. And while I'd love to be an NFL GM, I don't think if I was in Buddy Nix spot, this would be something I'd deal with. I'd probably delegate. But I would like to see something happen. Anyway, like I've said -- there are colleges (with bad teams, too) that don't allow any drinking in their stadium. At all. Some have very strict tailgating policies. And these colleges still do very well economically. Football is going to be lucrative no matter what, especially at the NFL level. Buffalo is one of 32 lucky cities to have a team. I don't think that alcohol needs to be a part of the experience for it to be an experience, simply. Here in Texas, we have a place called the Alamo Drafthouse, which is a chain of theaters in Austin and other cities that serves alcohol and bar food at your table. I love them. I don't think drinking is, in and of itself the problem. I think that it is the behavior that occurs inside the Ralph that is the problem. If you can convince me that it's due to some other thing, that I'd rather get rid of that thing, and let people drink as much as they want. But my first, best guess would be that all of the alcohol people are consuming is a significant reason while so many people experience problems in their section during games. This isn't everyone, and shouldn't be treated as such. But the idea that I'm in the minority when it comes to *that* is wrong, lots of people, in this thread alone have voiced their displeasure. Maybe with my remedy to fix it, sure. But I don't have tolerance for the sort of behavior that, for instance, akm0404 display in regards to even entertaining the notion. It's not silly to consider it an issue. It's pressing. I want you to be able to enjoy the games too. And I wish you could without having to be drunk at the game. And if you can't, then I don't know, we're at an impasse, though I think there are plenty of reasonable solutions that could be worked into the game that would at least make it more of a compromise than it is now. Lastly, and this has nothing to do with you, or any other poster, but I simply don't understand the appeal of drinking at 9 or 10 or 11 AM, no matter what day it is. To me, that is just gross.

There is a section of the Fan Code of Conduct that refers to responsible alcohol consumption by fans, as well as the intention to continue to up the enforcement by the alcohol enforcement teams. However, there are a few things to mention here. Firstly, the Bills added things to the Fan C.O.C. as recently as Sept 11th, apparently through a news release and press conference, but throughout the countless times I've been to the Ralph I've never really observed their C.O.C being communicated properly. Secondly, the availability of the thing is very poor. The C.O.C is perplexing difficult to find on the Bills web-site, though I would assume as a ticket holder if you contacted your representative they would be able to give you an accurate layout of the stadium policies. This is, however, for the Ralph/The Bills no excuse. It is easy enough for internet savvy people such as you or I to find this sort of information if we want to find it, but I imagine that a significant portion of Bills fans causing the perceived problems wouldn't take the time or have the ability to find such information, even if they wanted to, which they don't.

I am referring to harassment, public disturbance and a litany of other transgressions that could serve to make a person's day less pleasant. These things would almost certainly not stand up in court, but it is, in my opinion, worth it to give the hassle to the people. Last year while crossing over into the Ralph I saw in a single crossing two women flash the crowd, as well as a 250 or so pound Browns fan pull down his pants and threaten to take a ****, right there on the spot. If it were up to me (and thank goodness for some of you that it's not), as the Bills I would encourage the police to cite these people for just about any infraction that they can think of as a matter of course, and then on the grounds, enforce a war-time like strategy against drunkenness. Limit, as best one could, the sale of alcohol to three alcoholic drinks per person per game (there are obviously ways to skirt this), and so on. Whoever mentioned that 95% of people in the stadium are great is, for the most part, correct. I would say it's more like 90%, but the point stands. And it's that 5-10% that ruin it for many more, and these are generally the same people who ruin the experience on the message board for others, and several people have talked about. I think the idea of having non-drinking and drinking sections would be a decent idea, in that I think the family section system and having family night as a pre-season is broken in a way and does not really allow families to have the experience that they'd like. Bills fans, interestingly, are incredibly cordial as a group nationally. I've never traveled anywhere, or seen a game on the road anywhere, where Bills fans were misbehaved. We travel extremely well. Interestingly, I'd say the opposite for the Sabres. I've had a very docile experience with Sabres fans at the HBSC, and have really been ashamed of the way some traveling fans or Sabres fans in other cities behave toward their fellow sport-goer. It's an interesting thing to think about.

Except that people are consuming so much alcohol that three hours is not enough time to possibly rid them of their uncontrollable urge to act like a buffoon! Hooray! And we know that people that drink do not always make the most logical or responsible choices, particularly in regards to their liver, or, you know, driving. Yipee!

I know you're literate, that's why I know you've read the Fan Conduct Policy, which is why I know you know that what you're advocating is not only a violation of the public laws outside of the stadium, but the rules your govern your conduct inside the stadium.

A security alert doesn't do particularly much, but thanks for giving it your best. What I need is you to fall back asleep in your bowl of pork rinds at the Extended Stay and give decent human beings an opportunity to watch a football game without being bothered by the "Does Not Play Well With Others" collective from Mrs. Jones 4th grade class. Do you magically become undrunk and not wasted when before and after the game? Edit: I also would refer you to the updated Buffalo Bills Fan Code of Conduct, available to all literate football fans.

No. Drunk and wasted is not fine. There are actual laws against this, you know.

Yes. This. The fact that people would try to hide behind "political incorrectness" or threats not to buy tickets so that they can behave like sub-evolutionary neanderthals not only is some form of emotional disorder, its also an upfront display of cowardice. "I DON'T HAVE TO ACT WITH DECENCY AND HERE ARE ALL MY REASONS. AMERICAAAAAAAA!!!!!"

Yes, they do. And this country will be as "PC" as it has to be until gorillas stop consuming their own young. I have absolutely no tolerance for fascist machismo. Do you know what hyperbole is?

What about the multiple fights, vomiting, beer throwing and other asinine behavior that goes on? If we don't want to see that (even adults), then should we stay home too? It Ralph Wilson Stadium basically just a lawless hell zone where the lowest common denominator can piss on each other for their own amusement? \ There is nothing about a football game or stadium that precludes people from acting like civilized human beings, and I refuse to accept that "if I just don't like it, that's too bad." The NFL is marketed to anyone who has money, including families. Do you honestly believe that the Bills or NFL executives are sitting in their offices going, "Boy, I really wish that family of 5 would buy 5 tickets and come to the game, but I'd rather have the 3 drunk individuals buy 3 tickets and come to the game, because I hate money and I love freedom." Now if you want to tell me that the only people in Buffalo who have the sort of money to go consistently are those who have terrible drinking and behavioral problems. Maybe you've got a point. But that's a sad reflection on the city and the citizens, and its nothing to be proud of.

I don't think Nix will part with draft picks this season, and in that case I don't think we have anything to give for him. The Chargers wouldn't want Lynch and probably wouldn't do that deal straight up anyway. Besides, there is some belief that Vincent Jackson isn't nearly as good as some think.

Then don't buy tickets. I would rather it be that way. There are plenty of sports and stadiums in this country that enforce no-drinking rules that fill the stands every single game. Many college teams, who are never particularly good, do it on a weekly basis. Tons of professional teams do. And it's not a very good point. I promise you that families outnumber drunk individuals who are dropping money to drink in a parking lot and behave inappropriately "because the real game is before" or *boring* or whatever. It's football on Sunday, not misbehave at a sporting event on Sunday. No issues? That's rich. Furthermore, it's an empty threat. Just like the smoking drinkers who alleged that they would leave bars in a mass exodus when the no-smoking laws came into play. That lasted about two whole weeks. Look: If you love football, you'll be there. For football. And if you don't... if you love something else, if you're there for something else. Then you won't be there, and good riddance.

Agree with this completely. I've said this before, and I know it can't be a full comparison, but I think part of the hindering experience for people is that many of the idiots/drunks simply can't leave other people alone. We have gone to hockey games and never been talked to by anyone the entire game, which is a different experience, but sometimes a good one. Sometimes we simply want to enjoy the game. I think that, the fact that it has been harder to enjoy Bills games in recent years plays a large part in what has happened, but it isn't all of it. The team is responsible for letting it get to where it has gotten, and so are the fans. I'm glad they're cracking down. And what if the security doesn't do anything? What difference does it make if its at a daycare, a sporting event, a restaurant or the park? Unless there is an age limitation on people entering the facility, I think there is some expectation that people will observe common decency and act appropriately. It's not your prerogative. At least it shouldn't be. Adults who are in the company of other adults who can't keep themselves from cursing like a sailor without a reminder, or, "being called out" are essentially overgrown children. This *is* an issue for you. This how is children learn than violent or aggressive behavior is appropriate so long as no one corrects you. You're an adult, you shouldn't need a compass on how to act like one.

I went to games in the 90s when I was a kid. During some good years and bad. I don't remember things ever being as bad as they are now. There was drunkenness and rowdyness, and the Dolphins game was always particularly awful, but for the most part people were respectful, especially if/when they noticed kids in their section. I think the difference now seems to be that people notice kids in their section and still don't tone it down. I've never seen so many combative football fans. I wouldn't take a kid to a game right now. Maybe when the team is winning, things will tone down a bit, but right now I think it's way too much. It's too much for a casual adult, let alone a child.

We lose. A lot. And everyone is bitter about it. No one quite knows who to blame, but people have some pretty good ideas (The Quarterback, the Owner, the Front Office). The team might move eventually, but it might not, and everyone is very afraid about that, because the owner is very old, and non-committal to any local ownership group. We have three running backs. One of which who is pretty good, another who will probably some day be outstanding, and a third who was, once upon a time, good, and has lately been not-so-good. Lee Evans is the #1 Receiver, and no one quite knows if he is actually good enough to be a #1 receiver, or if he hasn't played well because we have had bad quarterbacks. "Poz" is the anchor of our defense, except he's hurt all of the time, in fact, he's hurt right now. Quick, name a random month and year. He was hurt then, too. Our Special Teams are actually special. We have an above average kicker in Rian Lindell, one of the best Punter's in the game in Moorman, and an exciting and dynamic return game featuring Roscoe Parrish, CJ Spiller and sometimes Leodis McKelvin. Ralph Wilson Stadium is notoriously windy and in a perfect spot off the lake for bad weather. So it's very, very important that we run the ball, and do it well. Except we haven't really been doing it as much as you'd think despite it being one of the few things we're good at. Finally, people at the stadium can be a bit rowdy and ridiculous. With things being bad, there are a lot of belligerent drunks abound. And people on here will tell you it's not okay to wear a certain jersey, to cheer or boo for a certain player, to observe or ignore a particular part of football fan etiquette (I refer to the Bills as "we" for instance), but these people make up a relatively small but squawky section of football fans. For the most part, Bills fans are some of the greatest in the world.

Thanks guys. I appreciate the kind words. I love to do this stuff. Maybe I can do it more often.

Are you using the phrase "welfare" because you think that it has a negative connotation associated with it?

I'd like to know who "The Rook from ATL" that one of the commenters is talking about is.

That would be a horrible plan. Maroney went with a 6th for a 4th, which is essentially a 5th. If you consider that Lynch is slightly better than Maroney (he probably is), than Lynch for a 4th straight up is not unreasonable. That could turn into a third dependent on how Lynch performs. Then it depends on *who* the player is. If it's a no-name LB (or AJ Hawk) or a no-name Tackle, then its not a big deal. Maybe a slight over payment, but not a huge one.

People seem to think that whatever Trent Edwards had, he lost either after being concussed against Arizona or in his meltdown the same season against Cleveland. I am bored, so I decided to break down some averages to see if there is anything to either thought. Comparing Before and After Arizona (*** Neither will include the AZ game) Completion Percentage Before: 58.78% Completion Percentage After: : 62.99% Attempts Before: 27.7 Attempts After: 26.1 TD Passes Per Game Before: 0.85 TD Passes Per Game After: 0.77 INTs Per Game Before: 0.71 INTs Per Per Game After: 0.83 Yards Per Pass Before: 6.63 Yards Per Pass After: 6.25 Comparing Before and After Cleveland (*** All games included. In order to be the QB of record for a game, a QB must have the most attempts for his team, as well as at least 14 attempts. There are three games in Edwards career in which this is not the case. I have included these anyway, for further disclosure. The Cleveland game will be included in the "before" under the assumption that he hadn't been impacted yet by the game, because he hadn't played it.) Completion Percentage Before: 62.64% Completion Percentage After: : 61.85% Attempts Before: 27.0 Attempts After: 24.6 TD Passes Per Game Before: 0.75 TD Passes Per Game After: 0.77 INTs Per Game Before: 0.90 INTs Per Per Game After: 0.54 Yards Per Pass Before: 6.67 Yards Per Pass After: 6.01 -- So, can anything be reasonably deduced from these numbers? Well, firstly, Trent Edwards was never a particularly good Quarterback. I think some of us (myself included) fell into the trap that he was the answer because he was A) Winning games early in his career B) Not turning the ball over or taking sacks like Losman was towards the end of his time in Buffalo. Now, it doesn't look like Trent became more tentative of "Captain Checkdown" after Arizona. In fact, he had a tremendous game against a tough San Diego team after being concussed by Arizona, and he was taking chances in games all the way up to the Cleveland Browns Monday Night game. But it appears as though something happened at the Ralph that night against Cleveland. Edwards Attempts and Yards are both down slightly, and here's a thing -- he has thrown Interceptions at almost half the rate! So? Well, when you're completion percentage, attempts and yards per pass all drop and you're throwing less picks, it doesn't mean you've suddenly become a better quarterback, because your production, not just your negatives, are decreasing. What it means perhaps (only perhaps), is that after that Cleveland game, Trent Edwards stopped taking chances, maybe all together. I was a Trent Edwards fan. I was a total believer that he looked like an NFL Quarterback in a way that Losman and other QBs simply did not. But now I've got to say, not only has Trent sucked after Cleveland, he sort of sucked before -- things have just gotten demonstrably worse since. Thoughts?

I had this all charted out for you, and then accidentally closed my browser, because I'm brilliant. So here: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/EvanLe00/gamelog/ Of Lee Evans top ten performances, based on receiving yards, JP Losman was the QB for 7 of them. Edwards, Bledsoe and Kelly Holcomb were each QB for 1. What does this tell us? Not much, necessarily, except Losman was good for Evans career, but perhaps bad for everyone else in Buffalo. And, at Losman's worst, he still threw the ball down field. Trent Edwards actually had a second game in the top 10 of Evans most productive, except JP Losman threw Evans TD reception in that game, and since scoring is the name of the game, I rewarded that game to Losman. So it could be 6-2-1-1, or 6-1-1-push, however you want to look at it.