TheLynchTrain
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T.O. is fast running out of opportunities, given his age and track record of being a poor teammate. However, he has actually shown that he will usually behave himself the first season with a team -- even in Philly and Dallas. Assuming that he is let go and assuming that there isn't much interest in him, I don't see the downside in signing him to a one-year veteran minimum contract (possibly with incentives). Yes, he has a tendency to drop passes and he's slid a little in recent years, but opponents still MUST account for him on every play. Imagine how that would finally free up Lee, not to mention open up the running game.
Yeah but think of how Eric Moulds was disgruntled when Lee Evans emerged in Moulds last year here. Now think of that times 100. That wouldn't even come close to how bad T.O could get if he couldn't get the ball in his hands, which I am certain the Bills offense would fail to do.
One the flipside, it would be pretty funny to see T.O. go on the national media in an interview with Dion Sanders badmouthing Turk Schoenert, Dick Jauron and most certainly Ralph Wilson. Can you imagine the shade of red Ralph would get watching T.O. call the bills front office "dysfunctional" or any other adjective? It would be truly classic.
For about a second.
And then we'd all here him trash the rest of the players, cause Trent to lose all confidence in himself, get in a fight with somebody in the locker room, and torpedo the season. But hey, where supposed to suck next year too right? What's there to lose, other than watching Ralph get called out by a primadonna?
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This is rumoured on ESPN too. Jerry Jones may not wanna eat that 12 mil bonus he handed out last year, though. Cutting TO leaves them a little thin at receiver and they don't have a 1st round pick.
But he should be cut anyway, he is the worst teammate in the history of sports.
For trading away the house to Detroit for Roy Williams, they still have some draft picks.
Still have their own 2nd, they gave away their 3rd but got one from Cleveland in a draft day trade, have 2 4ths (one from Detroit last year draft day trade), and 2 5ths (one from Tenn from the Pacman debacle). Sure, its not great, but he's still got 6 draft picks to work with.
You know Jerry Jones is a gambler and he'll probably turn some of them into more picks. We will see.
And you've got to say his back up plan with Pacman is pretty genius....he wrote into the contract that Tennesee had to give him back a 5th round pick. Yeah, Pacman crashed and burned in Dallas, and probably cost the team a game or two because of his antics, but Jones still got a pick in return. What other contract have you ever heard where a team gets a player for a pick and gets another pick if that player doesn't work out? Hilarious.
I hate the guy, but at least he tries.
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I have been a Bills fan for a long time. I don't want you to take this post the wrong way, I like Donte Whitner I think what he lacks athletically he makes up with passion and you cant teach that. For those of you that have been rooting for this team for a while will remember Henry Jones. He was a Bills safety for some time and IMO a very good one. He was originally drafted as a corner, but if my memory serves me well Marv gave every player in the secondary an IQ test and the player with the highest score was awarded the safety position (the internet was not accessible then so no link). With that said do you think it would be worth drafting that safety from Florida State that won the Rhodes Scholarship? I know he wouldn't be available until 2010 but his intelligence would be uncommon in this league and it seemed to work well for Henry Jones!!!!
Hey Dick, is that you?
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I have not seen Gross play, but assuming what you say about his skills is true, why would he demand less money than Peters ? It is close to a free market - better talent should get paid more.
Because most free agents are realistic in the amount of money that they could get....right now the highest paid guys are getting a little under 8 mil a year when their contract averages out.
But Peters seems to think that he is predestined to walk into Canton tomorrow. there were numerous articles last summer where Euguene Parker demanded nothing less than 10 mil. Thats obscene.
The difference between Gross and Peters is that Peters will accept nothing less than the highest paid lineman in the league while Gross will probably accept top 5 money.
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No, wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, just didn't understand your comparison. Instead of long shot would you accept risky investment?
yeah. If Peters was demanding the same money that other top flight FA LTs were demanding (no more than 8 mil), I'd say ok. But from what he said last year, him and Eugene Parker want to set the market. Peters said 11 mil last year. The Bills are obviously too cheap for that.
It would be a sounder investment if the guy didnt miss games to injury (or at least the appearance that he didnt give up once we couldn't make the playoffs two years in a row). His attitude and behavior don't seem in line for a guy you'd pay so much, a guy you'd make the face of your franchise. I have a feeling (and I feel many more people inside and outside of One Bills Drive) that Peters might fold up the tents and be lazy once he gets paid. I would hope that this was a wrong assessment, but I feel that perception is still there.
Jordan Gross has no question marks surrounding him whatsoever.
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Serious ? Who is the sure thing and who is the long shot?
Are you serioius? C'mon now. Never said peters was the long shot. Peters had an allstar season in 2007. He looked like he could be the best LT ever to play the game. But he did get injured, and had an off-season this year, along with injuries, whining and the rest. Who's to say he wont care once he's paid.
Jordan Gross has been a top 5 top 10 LT since he came into the league five years ago. He can play almost any position on the line. He never gets injured. Great attitude. I dont see any drop off if he goes anywhere else. And he's not going to demand the ridiculous money that Peters will.
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I would bring him in (Leftwich) to see what he can offer.
Dont forget Jauron was the Jags DC while Leftwich was a starter. quote me if im wrong
So Jauron at least knows what he can do.
If they do bring him in make it an open QB fight. May the best man win but I do think Trent wins that battle. I hope they fix his shoulder in the meantime
Leftwich does have a slow release though but he still has a cannon of an arm
You're wrong. He was the HC of the Bears and DC of Detriot when Leftwich was in Jax
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This is fantasy. Go look at porn instead, it's equally unattainable but you'll feel better.
The bills are going to have to make a decision on peters sooner or later, so I don't know how its necessarily fantasy.
If by fantasy in the fact that the organization is too stupid or cheap to make any significant moves, then I understand your language.
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Think of this in terms of any investment.
Broker A calls u up and says you can invest in something, and that it might be the GREATEST THING out there, will make you a multi-millionaire, but theres one catch. Its going to cost you some serious money to just get to the table, and that while the potential is there to make ridiculous amounts of money, there is still potential that it will crash and burn and you will become worthless.
Now, another broker B calls u up and says that you can invest in something that is a PROVEN COMMODITY. It's a top quality product, never breaks down, ect ect. Youre going to have to pay, but not the amount as broker A says. Yeah, it might not be the greatest commodity ever, but its going to make you serious returns, every week, every year, without fail. You'll get rich but not the potential to make the ridiculous amount of money that broker A tells you.
Now which do you pick? If you're feeling rather lucky, you might want to go with the first guy and see who pans out. But I'm certain most people would go for the sure thing. It all comes down to how One Bills Drive is feeling....are they feeling lucky?
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The funny thing is that people want to spend all this money on flashy WR's, TE's, LB's and DB's.....when the time comes to invest in linemen, they want to go on the cheap- pay Peters or you'll end up paying somebody else more...who probably isn't as good.
yea but peters is going to demand a heck of a lot more money than gross. Why can't we land gross and then trade peters.
As I've said previously, this is only a suggestion if signing peters is irreconcilable...meaning he wants 11 mil and the bills say take a hike. I'm certain Gross isn't going to go higher than 8 mil a year. Peters is certain demand much much more.
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I could be wrong, but I don't think they would lose much on Walker. He has played 2 seasons of a 5 year/25 million dollar contract. His salary isn't guaranteed so it would depend on the sixe of his bonus.
They might even gain cap space, or at least break even. It would depend on the size of his bonus.
http://content.usatoday.com/sports/footbal...nterstitialskip
Looks like he already had two 5 mil signing bonuses and his contract has already eaten up about 12 mil. The rest of his contract probably isn't guaranteed, but I'm sure there is still some signing bonus money they have to give the guy.
The fact is thought that we're not replacing Walker with Gross. The fact that somebody brought that up was pretty laughable. Again, it sounds like people are thinking about too much Madden plug-a-player in theory.
Now cutting Walker and drafting a stud tackle like Jeff Otah out of Pitt for Carolina last year might sound like a good idea. And if we decide we don't want to sign peters this year and we put it off til he's a free agent, the bills would have a plan of succession for their tackles.
But that is always too much to ask from One Bills Drive.
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I'd rather replace Walker with Gross and keep Peters......getting rid of one and bringing in the other is spinning your wheels. Now if we have Peters, Mack and Gross......now, you'd be on to something
Um, Gross plays LT. I'm certain he would think playing RT is a "demotion." And what, we're going to pay 8 mil for a guy to play RT while were paying 11 mil for a guy to play LT? And why would he ever go somewhere to play RT when any number of teams would pay him to play LT? What? And don't forget the money were eating on Walkers contract?
While were at it, can we sign Peppers and Suggs too?
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This story seems to be lacking some logic, like many of his stories. An outside observer would probably think that Kyle Orton had a heck of a better year than Trent. And didn't Chris Brown hear Lovie Smith say that Orton will go into the season as a starter last year? In my opinion, it would seem Orton is more "entrenched" than Trent.
Don't get me wrong, I'm pulling for Trent. I hope he has a great season next year.
But I don't think these other FA quarterbacks and their agents think in the same way. There's probably five QBs a year that started the season "entrenched" and lost their jobs by October. Its the NFL, it happens every year.
FA QBs and their agents know this, and they plan accordingly. I'm sure Leftwich and his agent have already compiled a list of all 32 teams and have rated which ones they believe have QBs on the hot seat.
And I would almost guarantee, in an agents eyes (regardless of what might come out publicly at One Bills Drive), the Bills are on that list of hot seat QBs.
Lefwich and his agent will, when they sign somewhere, even if they're a backup, say all the right things about how theyre there to help the team, blah blah. But if he gets his chance, you know he'll try his best to stay a starter.
It's the NFL, this is what happens.
I'm surprised Chris Brown would talk in such absolutes. But yeah, you can never trust state-run media, especially if its the Buffalo Bills.
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OK so you get the credit for being the first intelligent person to post about what do you do to fill the gap left when and if Peters is gone. Probably very best case the Bills get a mid round first and a third for Peters and they still have to win the derby for Gross. The odds of all of this coming together is very slim.
The list of reasons for trading players is very short:
You have great depth at a given position and can afford to let a player go in exchange for a valued pick(s) (Bledsoe to Buffalo for example)
The traded player is past his prime but there is enough value in the players name that some team would want him to address a need or to perhaps sell tickets (think OJ simpson trade to SF)
A team has a crucial need to fill and there is a role player that they are willing to slightly over compensate the trading team for (Perhaps Brett Faurve fits this situation or even Marcus Stroud)
There is a straight up trade of players that fills needed roles on both teams
A player's behavior or statements is so disruptive to your team chemistry that you are willing to let him go for whatever value you can get out of him (Willis MaGahee)
A player's perceived value is higher than the on-the-field contribution so the team giving up the player gets better value in return (this is where many people seem to argue Peters falls)
The problem with buying into this last point is that it potentially leaves a huge hole on the oline and I would argue even if we get a first and a third for Peters there is a one in four chance that you get nothing in return for him if your draft picks go bust. There is a one in two chance that you replace him on the roster with one player that may be average or below average. I repeat - I do not like those odds. You keep proven talent on your roster especially when that talent is entering their prime football years.
Hey I wasn't trying to be pompous or anything with the gross idea, it's just I've been telling every single person I meet that we should try this out and I haven't heard a single person talk about it or bring it up. Props to H20.
I agree with you on the fact that they should do everything they can to keep peters. But is he worth 11 mil a year? I don't think 8 mil is gonna cut it for him or Eugene Parker. The guy wants to set the market. 11 mil might be a steal a couple years down the road, just like I think Evans contract will be.
But does he really want to be in Buffalo, after all the fans "hated" on him? These are answers that only time will tell.
My logic is that if we can't get him to sign, if buffalo is too cheap, we should take a look at Gross. Yeah, theres gonna be a Jordan Gross derby for sure this spring, but I don't think Gross is going to demand the money that peters is going to demand.
Yea, Peters has more upside than Gross for sure, but Gross is a solid versatile player that is still in the top 5 at his position, and he won't demand 11 mil a year. If the bills want to give out a 8 mil a year contract, gross would probably accept...I don't see him going higher than that.
This way, we can take that extra couple of million we saved and use it for other positions on the line. Not to mention the draft picks we'd get from the peters trade.
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And since we donned our new duds, our records have been
2007 7 9
2006 7 9
2005 5 11
2004 9 7
2003 6 10
2002 8 8
42 54 RECORD
If theres any reason to change from the pajama/arena football/fairy uniforms we wear now, this would be one of them!
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Already brought this whole idea up a few weeks ago, halfway down the page
http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showt...=79776&st=0
"I'd like to agree with you about Peter's "lost year," but unfortunately the players and coaches did not agree with you. Him making a second pro bowl only hurts the bills at the negotiation table, and reinforces the fact to Peters that he would be coveted elsewhere, regardless of how undeserving he was this year.
The thing is, Peters COULD be the best tackle in the league for the next 10 years. COULD is the word that needs to be emphasized here. He still has not been able to stay healthy for a whole season since he's moved to left tackle, and his getting beaten the last 10 games numerous times is a far cry from 2007. He still has had only one good year so far, maybe add another 5-6 games if you're being generous.
And him missing the last game right after making the pro bowl sounds a little fishy to me. Is he really hurt, or is he just acting on his talk that "the reason why you play the game is to go to hawaii" (not the SB)? I don't know if you can question his work ethic, since he made it all the way from a UNFA TE to a pro bowl LT, but maybe somewhere along the way he got too full of himself and is on the glorious path to mike williams irrelevancy. Obviously, I go too far.
The problem here is that by not giving him his contract last year he's going to demand even more money. Last year I remember his jackass agent asking for 11-12-15 mil a year...by far the highest paid lineman money. He'll probably ask for more.
I said on this board a couple days ago that if the bills are really uncertain about Peters, and they are unwilling to mortgage their future of 11 mil a year on the guy, they should go out and get Jordan Gross. The Panthers aren't going to resign him because they have Peppers to deal with and they just spent a 1st rounder on a rising star Otah from Pitt. He's a real solid, athletic and versatile player whose started a lot of games, doesnt get injured, great attitude and just made a pro bowl (yea, I know we just established this doesnt mean much). I almost guarantee that he will go a few million less than Peters a year.
I would only advise this if we can get VERY GOOD return for peters...like more than a high first rounder...hopefully 2 1sts, maybe a package of 1st and 3rd or 1st and 2nd. But I think this might be a good plan to go for IF and ONLY IF the bills are unwilling to pay peters and can get good value."
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If the Bills were to find some quality veteran value by trading Peters, they could always draft an LT, God forbid, in the first round to play LT next year. Check with Kansas City and Denver this past season, their first round tackles they drafted worked out pretty well for them. Now I know the Bills have decided never to draft an OT in round one since Donahoe masterfully brought Mike Williams in with the 4th pick in the draft 7 years ago. But if they trade Peters, it will be time to draft one again in round one.
I dont know about this logic. So we'd get a 1st and 2nd or a 1st and 3rd for the guy, then go around and spend that 1st on an OT?
So we'd trade our blue chip guy for an unproven blue chip guy and a 2nd or 3rd? I don't know about that my friend.
I must admit I still am on the fence about this whole thing. And no, Peters isn't going to demand 8 mil, he already said last year he wanted TEN OR ELEVEN MIL, and that was before a "supposedly glorious PRO BOWL SEASON." Can you imagine the dollar bills signs running through him and Eugene Parker's head at this moment?
From what we saw in his comments to the media, Peters sounds like a selfish, disgruntled player that doesn't want to be in Buffalo. But I wonder if we can judge the guy from just what he says in the media? We obviously know its not the whole side of the story, maybe a glimpse, but not the whole side. And you can't tell me half the guys in the league are like this, but say differently in the spotlight.
I think if we can get the guy for a while at 7-8 mil (with not much guaranteed after a few years to protect investment), do it. If he sucks after a few years, cut him or trade him and ensure that the contract won't bite you in the arse.
But if he is hell bent on claiming 10-11 mil a year, and never wants to set foot on Buffalo's soil again, I say the Bills trade him for nothing less than two 1sts or tell him he can sit til the contract is done.
I know a lot of people are concerned about throwing the bank on a guy that underachieved this season, who disparages the fans, and acts like the pro bowl and his contract is the only concern, but he has in the PAST shown that he COULD be a HOF 10 year LT....something that is as hard to come by as a HOF QB. We need to take a little risk if we want it to pan out.
Now people that saying Walker could replace him as a LT? Give me a break. He was a stopgap til peters came back. I think too many people don't understand football. This isn't madden. There is a difference between a RT and a LT. LT's for the most part defend speed rushers, they are quicker more agile guys. RT's for the most part defend bull rushers, they are more bulky and immobile. Walker was serviceable as a LT, but nothing more than that. His position is RT. Don't use him anywhere else.
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Was Jim Kelly really that much worse than some of these guys?
I don't remember Kelly ever given a chance to be a color guy. Was he? And even if he ever was, he was never given the chance to sit on a prominent show like E. Smith or have the prime time game color commentator post like Aikman.
And yeah, if Jimbo did, he probably would show the same level of competence (in my opinion) as Aikman. Thank God Jimbo stays otta that limelight and avoids any such criticism. I like his ESPN and Man Law commercials better than anything Aikman has done in his post-career.
Now when we talk about Emmit Smith, I think you can pluck almost anyone out of the crowd at a football stadium and they would be more knowledgeable than him. As long as the replacement has never seen a speech therapist in their lives, they could probably put on a competent show. Yes, its that bad.
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Funny how everybody on here has a different opinion on almost every announcer...to each his own I guess.
Shannon Sharpe: says some pretty intelligent stuff every once in a while, but I laugh everytime he talks because I think I'm watching Mr. Ed the horse talk on Sundays. Does he have peanut butter stuck in his mouth? Pretty entertaining stuff.
Chris Carter: He's the worst kind of idiot. Everybody does it on television, but Carter "hedges" his comments more than any other. Remember that stuff that was posted here a couple months ago about him calling out Charles Rogers and how stupid the Lions were to draft him? How he trained with the guy and said all the Lions had to do was "talk to him?" Then reports came out about how he said what a wonderful young man Rogers was at the time, ect ect? Yeah, case in point, Chris Carter sucks.
Troy Aikman: Maybe it is my anti-Cowboys bias showing through, but I just can't stand listening and seeing this guy get the prime time game with Joe Buck every week. I don't care for Joe Buck in football that much either, baseball he's ok. But I think together the two of them have the droning boring voice that you can't tell whose talking. When the camera pans to them, Aikman always has that expression on his face that shows he's had too many concussions in his lifetime. And I dont think he ever offers any inside or unique analysis EVER. Take this weekend: McNabb clearly got his foot stepped on by his center. Aikman rambles on for a few minutes about how every once in a while the center will take a step back and step on the QBs foot...OK, thats fine! All he had to say was repeat the one line I stated above. Don't go into a 2 minute analysis of how a Center might do that to his QB. Keep it at a minimum. And I don't want to even go into Aikman's slobbering all over his Cowboys. Yeah, I don't think Jim Kelly could help it either, but Jim Kelly never called Bills games. If the guy is going to do color with Joe Buck, don't give him Cowboys games every week! Especially on prime freaking time! In front of the whole country! Does fox really hold to the fact that the cowboys are "america's team" garbage?
Emmit Smith: I don't even think I have to say anything about him. He's just an idiot, and its sad that a guy that was so good as a pro could be tarnishing his name with all the porky pig or elmer fudd soundbites he puts in every week. My favorite, during the Bills Cleveland pregame: "Turk Sherman" instead of "Turk Schoenert." Now that was a classic. He clearly doesn't put any preparation into his analysis, and I can't fathom how producers don't see this. Then again, producers aren't football people, so maybe they have no idea, just like Smith. And if you have this much stuff on youtube making fun the way you talk, you're not a good analyst: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZsJrFf5lj8...feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZsJrFf5lj8...feature=related
Jaws: Don't have any complaints. A step up from Theismann, who was only there to be made fun of by Kornheiser last year.
Everybody's always going to have a different reaction to different announcers, but that makes us human. I personally like watching these guys just so I can laugh at them. Again, to each his own.
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Missing the OTAs, minicamps and training camps are a serious deal, especially with rookies. You hear all the second year players say something to that effect - an extra year in the weight training program and running through those camps...its all very valuable when it comes to reps.
IF (and him missing training camp is a big IF) he does, then 2009 will most likely be a wash. If you don't believe me, see Kevin Everett's second year after his ACL tear. Yeah, he missed his whole rookie season, but he wasn't ready to compete during the second training camp.
Look at John McCargo...yeah he sucked, but some of the reason he sucked was probably because he was injured going into that second training camp.
Look, they need the reps, especially second year players. It's a critical time for their development.
If he misses some serious time this offseason, which serious ACL injuries do, its gonna be a hard road for him to recover and contribute during the season.
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its only when you've hit rock bottom, you have no where to go but up.
It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything
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I dont see how Niagara Falls is that much closer than it would be to build a stadium in downtown buffalo. Google maps says its like 5 min difference from downtown Toronto to buffalo vs niagara falls.
Sure, the sight lines for a stadium in Niagara Falls would be cool, but if they were ever able to build a stadium, I think it would need to be built downtown.
The only question: Would tailgating be the same? My guess is no, but I think we could make it work.
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I figured he was gone the minute they traded for Roy Williams. Yeah, thats a big contract that they signed him to 7 months go, but only 12.9 mil is guaranteed. And guess what? He got all that in a signing bonus this year, and his salary was 13 mil.
What does that all mean? Contracts in the NFL aren't guaranteed! The Cowboys can cut the guy in March, and they won't feel a bit of pain. They may have to dish out a little more dead money, but not much. And hey, its the Cowboys, they have plenty of spare money to throw around.
I'm suprised Werder wasn't smart enough to see that the contract was front ended and the COwboys wont have much pain
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The idea of "character players" is only an excuse by Ralphie and the front office to not pay star players.
stroud contract
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
I agree 100%. Jenkins was a monster through the first 8-9 games. IMO, he was the AFC MVP, at least defensive MVP. Remember the first bills game? He was in the backfield every other play.
But around game 10, he fell flat. Probably conditioning, maybe ill suited to the scheme. Whatever it was, he was downright terrible in the second half of the season. It was night and day between the first and second Jets-Bills games for him.
For all the blame that was heaped on Brett Favre for the meltdown (deservedly so), I think Jenkins should have bore as much or more blame than Favre. We will see if he can rebound or not.
Good thing about the Stroud/Jenkins comparisons: yeah they both came with the same trade value, but remember Jenkins got a 5 year 31 mil contract before he even came on board with the Jets. Stroud did not.