Upon further review... run defense

[ColdBlueNorth]

have a sick kid so I was bored enough to go back through the game and watch the jest running game.

 

Although our defensive line has some serious issues with cut-back runs, and we did have shoddy tacking on sweeps to the outside, what really hurt us were runs right up the gut.

 

I have always been a big Stroud fan but the Jet's center Nick Mangold totally dominated him 1 on 1, on the touchdown run I think it is Stroud that gets pancaked. The center Mangold and their right guard Moore created a lot of movement and some huge holes. Once in the secondary, it is asking alot for our smallish backfield to actually stop a runningback with a full head of steam.

[BadDad]

have a sick kid so I was bored enough to go back through the game and watch the jest running game.

 

Although our defensive line has some serious issues with cut-back runs, and we did have shoddy tacking on sweeps to the outside, what really hurt us were runs right up the gut.

 

I have always been a big Stroud fan but the Jet's center Nick Mangold totally dominated him 1 on 1, on the touchdown run I think it is Stroud that gets pancaked. The center Mangold and their right guard Moore created a lot of movement and some huge holes. Once in the secondary, it is asking alot for our smallish backfield to actually stop a runningback with a full head of steam.

 

Especially when our LB's are out of position or being taken on by OL blockers. Once the runners got past the DL there was no stopping them.

[ColdBlueNorth]

Especially when our LB's are out of position or being taken on by OL blockers. Once the runners got past the DL there was no stopping them.

You can tell this is a patchwork defense particularly against the run with Scott, and Mitchell out. Wilson has more range than Scott, but Scott is better against the run. I felt that Mitchell was our toughest LB and had the veteran experience to know how to play the run.

 

All that being said, if your best defensive lineman is getting thrown aside and pancaked that is simply a case of not being tough enough. Stroud has to play better, they really count on him to hold his ground.

 

It is nice to have Poz back, and he is a good all around linebacker, but we need some run stoppers. We also just need the DLine and the linebackers to be more responsible within their gaps.

 

This does not resemble much the "D" we put out there against NE, but at least we have enough defensive backs to stil play the pass.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

BTW, the Jets' guard, Brandon Moore, was a free agent this offseason. The Jets released him in February but re-signed him the next day. He is a bit undersized at 300 pounds but is considered an excellent guard. Seems like he was destined to re-sign with them but he was available, for one day.

 

If you get good leverage, it doesn't really matter how big you are.

[PDaDdy]

Especially when our LB's are out of position or being taken on by OL blockers. Once the runners got past the DL there was no stopping them.

 

Seriously.

 

When there are 5 offensive lineman + a TE + potentially a FB blocking 4 down defensive lineman LBs HAVE TO PLUG HOLES!!!! I definitely saw linebackers not filling holes more than I saw any supposed domination of Stroud or Williams.

[Zona]

Seriously.

 

When there are 5 offensive lineman + a TE + potentially a FB blocking 4 down defensive lineman LBs HAVE TO PLUG HOLES!!!! I definitely saw linebackers not filling holes more than I saw any supposed domination of Stroud or Williams.

 

just for the record. I saw lots times when the 7 offensive guys you mentioned blocking the front four and the 3 linebackers of the defensive Bills. Hence----Holes to run through. And on the off chance we had a free guy or two to try and plug the hole to meet the RB, the said players filled the wrong damned hole!!!

 

I NEVER thought i would say this, but i miss the days of Wade's 3-4 read and react defense that would shut down opposing teams run games week in and week out. We were near the top of the league defensively for a LONG time with Wade.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I NEVER thought i would say this, but i miss the days of Wade's 3-4 read and react defense that would shut down opposing teams run games week in and week out. We were near the top of the league defensively for a LONG time with Wade.

I think that success had a lot more to do with Bruce Smith, Ted Washington, Pat Williams, Sam Cowart, etc. being great run defenders than anything Wade Phillips did.

 

Part of the Bills present-day problems stopping the run has to do with scheme, but more of it has to do with talent (or a lack of it).

[Zona]

I think that success had a lot more to do with Bruce Smith, Ted Washington, Pat Williams, Sam Cowart, etc. being great run defenders than anything Wade Phillips did.

 

Part of the Bills present-day problems stopping the run has to do with scheme, but more of it has to do with talent (or a lack of it).

 

Just like everything else my friend, it is a combination of talent, and coaching and chemistry that achieves results. I think the cover two has run its course as a base defense here in Buffalo. Its time to make changes everywhere....

[BadDad]

I think that success had a lot more to do with Bruce Smith, Ted Washington, Pat Williams, Sam Cowart, etc. being great run defenders than anything Wade Phillips did.

 

Part of the Bills present-day problems stopping the run has to do with scheme, but more of it has to do with talent (or a lack of it).

 

 

I kind of agree with you on both statements. Yes Wade had some All Pro and HOF studs on that DL, but I also think that the 3-4 was suited for those DL's. In other words you can't take away from Wade the fact that he used a scheme that played to the strength of his talent, no square peg in a round hole. DJ is a good DC, but I think Wade is a much better DC, niether is necessarily a good HC.

 

As for present day, they decided upon a scheme, the cover two using a 4-3. This is a good scheme and does have it's merits but you need the players. Unfortunately we have not been able to come up with the talent in the front seven, especially the LB's and injuries have been killing us as well. As a result we are trying to force square pegs in round holes and it shows.

 

As for our pass defense being exceptional, it damned well better be after all emphasis that has been put on it in the recent drafts.

[PDaDdy]

just for the record. I saw lots times when the 7 offensive guys you mentioned blocking the front four and the 3 linebackers of the defensive Bills. Hence----Holes to run through. And on the off chance we had a free guy or two to try and plug the hole to meet the RB, the said players filled the wrong damned hole!!!

 

I NEVER thought i would say this, but i miss the days of Wade's 3-4 read and react defense that would shut down opposing teams run games week in and week out. We were near the top of the league defensively for a LONG time with Wade.

 

I suppose if there was indeed a FB involved in those plays which there rarely was. If the offensive lineman and TE were one on one blocking that statement would be more relevant. Usually you have guys in the interior double teaming a DT. They also have a TE matched up on a DE or a LB sometimes. Even if we can't hold at the point of attack it should provide our LBs with opportunities to make plays. They have been over running the plays, paying no attention to cut back lanes and plane old just not been in the right spot several times. On Thomas' first of second big run Ellis could have played more to the right side of the defense and plugged the whole and taken out Thomas. Instead he over ran the hole that Thomas ran through and got cleaned out by a Jets guard. Off to the races it was.

[ColdBlueNorth]

Seriously.

 

When there are 5 offensive lineman + a TE + potentially a FB blocking 4 down defensive lineman LBs HAVE TO PLUG HOLES!!!! I definitely saw linebackers not filling holes more than I saw any supposed domination of Stroud or Williams.

The supposed domination was a flat-out pancake of Stroud by their Center. Check out the Jones' run for the TD I think it is even in the "highlight" vid on the home page.

 

If the interior guys are doing their job you do not have runs like that up the middle - and we have given up too many. It is true that if our linebackers and safeties came up to fill the right gap that would be nice, but you expect Stroud to be that guy that takes on two blockers. When Stroud is on his game he can be that type of player, but he has not been.

 

Buffalo drafts pretty light on the defense, and it shows when teams get smash-mouth on us.

 

The really scarey thing about the running plays that worked for the Jets (most all of them) was that we were selling out to the run. We had no respect for a pass and simply had everyone crowding the line and they still were able to blow through our guys.

[ColdBlueNorth]

BTW, the Jets' guard, Brandon Moore, was a free agent this offseason. The Jets released him in February but re-signed him the next day. He is a bit undersized at 300 pounds but is considered an excellent guard. Seems like he was destined to re-sign with them but he was available, for one day.

 

If you get good leverage, it doesn't really matter how big you are.

He did look pretty solid, but then again our defensive linemen do not exactly strike fear into the guys playing across from them.

[PDaDdy]

The supposed domination was a flat-out pancake of Stroud by their Center. Check out the Jones' run for the TD I think it is even in the "highlight" vid on the home page.

 

If the interior guys are doing their job you do not have runs like that up the middle - and we have given up too many. It is true that if our linebackers and safeties came up to fill the right gap that would be nice, but you expect Stroud to be that guy that takes on two blockers. When Stroud is on his game he can be that type of player, but he has not been.

 

Buffalo drafts pretty light on the defense, and it shows when teams get smash-mouth on us.

 

The really scarey thing about the running plays that worked for the Jets (most all of them) was that we were selling out to the run. We had no respect for a pass and simply had everyone crowding the line and they still were able to blow through our guys.

 

We have light, presumably, fast DTs the can create penetration. They ARE NOT huge space hogging immovable objects. If you want that we should get Pat Williams and Ted Washington....Oh...wait....yaaaaa!

[Shamrock]

I kind of agree with you on both statements. Yes Wade had some All Pro and HOF studs on that DL, but I also think that the 3-4 was suited for those DL's. In other words you can't take away from Wade the fact that he used a scheme that played to the strength of his talent, no square peg in a round hole. DJ is a good DC, but I think Wade is a much better DC, niether is necessarily a good HC.

 

As for present day, they decided upon a scheme, the cover two using a 4-3. This is a good scheme and does have it's merits but you need the players. Unfortunately we have not been able to come up with the talent in the front seven, especially the LB's and injuries have been killing us as well. As a result we are trying to force square pegs in round holes and it shows.

 

As for our pass defense being exceptional, it damned well better be after all emphasis that has been put on it in the recent drafts.

 

Wade moved into the 4-3 that year when Sean Moran was around and we lost a stack of linebackers. I can't remember how that D faired against it's 3-4 system.