LongLiveRalph Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 A strikeout is just another out. Not true at all. A strikeout is the worst possible out, because nothing can happen. At least on a groundout, a fielder has to scoop the ball cleanly and make an accurate throw, which has to be caught by another fielder. There's several opportunities for a mistake. Also, on other types of outs, runs can score or runners can advance. Not so on a strikeout. Production-wise, it is the absolute worst thing you can do in a baseball game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Not true at all. A strikeout is the worst possible out, because nothing can happen. At least on a groundout, a fielder has to scoop the ball cleanly and make an accurate throw, which has to be caught by another fielder. There's several opportunities for a mistake. Also, on other types of outs, runs can score or runners can advance. Not so on a strikeout. Production-wise, it is the absolute worst thing you can do in a baseball game. I agree with you in certain situations, but power hitters tend to have more K's than other types of hitters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLiveRalph Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 I agree with you in certain situations, but power hitters tend to have more K's than other types of hitters. Yes that's true...The strikeouts are easily dealt with if their production is abnormally high when they do make contact. However, even for a beast like Howard, it takes some serious numbers to offset 225 K's. The classic example is a team down by one run gets hitters 1 thru 3 on, and the bases are loaded. Hitter 4 comes up and strikes out. How many times has hitter 5 come up and grounded into an inning-ending double play? If hitter 4 can put the ball in play, the likelihood of a run scoring is extremely high. If he can fly out, it's a run, and likely one (or both) of the other runners can advance. Even if he grounds into a 6-4-3 DP, one run will score. Even if it's an easy defensive play, there is always the chance of an error. The strikeout is absolute zero as far as baseball stats are concerned. However, like you said, you would hope if hitter 4 is your power hitter that he will occasionally crush one when hitters 1, 2, and 3 are on base, and that will balance out the times that he wiffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Yes that's true...The strikeouts are easily dealt with if their production is abnormally high when they do make contact. However, even for a beast like Howard, it takes some serious numbers to offset 225 K's. The classic example is a team down by one run gets hitters 1 thru 3 on, and the bases are loaded. Hitter 4 comes up and strikes out. How many times has hitter 5 come up and grounded into an inning-ending double play? If hitter 4 can put the ball in play, the likelihood of a run scoring is extremely high. If he can fly out, it's a run, and likely one (or both) of the other runners can advance. Even if he grounds into a 6-4-3 DP, one run will score. Even if it's an easy defensive play, there is always the chance of an error. The strikeout is absolute zero as far as baseball stats are concerned. However, like you said, you would hope if hitter 4 is your power hitter that he will occasionally crush one when hitters 1, 2, and 3 are on base, and that will balance out the times that he wiffs. Ryan Howard 2006 313 AVG, 425 OBP, 58 HR, 149 RBI, 659 SLG, 181 K (Won MVP) 2007 268 AVG, 392 OBP, 47 HR, 136 RBI, 584 SLG, 199 K 2008* 236 AVG, 325 OBP, 29 HR, 87 RBI, 512 SLG, 132 K * Through 377 ABs, not including AUG and SEPT, traditionally his best months. My guess is he finishes this year with 255/365/55/145/590/210 Serious numbers indeed...numbers unlike any other major league player (except perhaps Josh Hamilton this year) has put up over the same time period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLiveRalph Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Ryan Howard 2006 313 AVG, 425 OBP, 58 HR, 149 RBI, 659 SLG, 181 K (Won MVP) 2007 268 AVG, 392 OBP, 47 HR, 136 RBI, 584 SLG, 199 K 2008* 236 AVG, 325 OBP, 29 HR, 87 RBI, 512 SLG, 132 K * Through 377 ABs, not including AUG and SEPT, traditionally his best months. My guess is he finishes this year with 255/365/55/145/590/210 Serious numbers indeed...numbers unlike any other major league player (except perhaps Josh Hamilton this year) has put up over the same time period. The guy is a horse, no doubt about it. If steroids were still legal he'd be my pick to hit 75. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopsGuy Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 I can't believe I'm just seeing this thread now. I, personally, can't stand Howard. It seems like he can do no wrong, and the fans will always love him. Burrell is a much more solid hitter. Howard usually hits his homeruns when they are either winning by 5 runs or losing by 10. He is Daryl Strawberry all over again, except much worse at the plate and in the field. Almost every time he comes to bat in a clutch situation he strikes out. Its amazing how Howard - lovers come out with these numbers that make him appear to be one of the best hitters in the league, but if you watch the games, he is a joke. Do you have something to support that or are you just winging it? I'm just asking. Howard is hitting .322 with RISP. .291 with men on and 2 out. That's nearly 90 and 60 point better than his overall average respectively. I'm just sayin'. I like Howard, but I hate his strikeouts/fielding. I wish he was Albert Pujols, but he's not. That BA needs to improve and it has been lately, but I don't think we'll ever see that 2006 form again. That was crazy. Nobody would pitch to the guy in September. I've been a Phillies fan for over 30 years and I have to say that I actually like this team almost as much as the '93 team and that's saying something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 I can't believe I'm just seeing this thread now. Do you have something to support that or are you just winging it? I'm just asking. Howard is hitting .322 with RISP. .291 with men on and 2 out. That's nearly 90 and 60 point better than his overall average respectively. I'm just sayin'. I like Howard, but I hate his strikeouts/fielding. I wish he was Albert Pujols, but he's not. That BA needs to improve and it has been lately, but I don't think we'll ever see that 2006 form again. That was crazy. Nobody would pitch to the guy in September. I've been a Phillies fan for over 30 years and I have to say that I actually like this team almost as much as the '93 team and that's saying something. Here we go, I knew I'd snag one of you. I do have something for support, me watching the games lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopsGuy Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Here we go, I knew I'd snag one of you. I do have something for support, me watching the games lol. Great answer. Reminds me of the survey of ML players of whom they thought the best "clutch" hitter was. David Eckstein was the choice. But the stats proved otherwise. Here's a blog about it. 8-6 comeback with a 6 run rally in the in the 9th. So Taguchi with the big hit. He's So Taguchi (which is "clutch" in Japanese). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Great answer. Reminds me of the survey of ML players of whom they thought the best "clutch" hitter was. David Eckstein was the choice. But the stats proved otherwise. Here's a blog about it. 8-6 comeback with a 6 run rally in the in the 9th. So Taguchi with the big hit. He's So Taguchi (which is "clutch" in Japanese). Yeah, and what did Howard do in the 8th inning during their push with runners in scoring position? Pop fly I wish we had our closer last night. But doesn't it get annoying, it seems like the Phillies always come back to win in the end, why can't they do that in the beginning and middle of games? Reminds me of the Sabres I'm still on my Werth campaign. I really think that guy needs to be an everyday player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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