Moose Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 No women on the beaches isn't nearly the worst of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yall Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Hooray! Chalk up another victory for the religion of peace! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 You dont need to go to the Middle East or Africa to see Islam's very real attempt to force us ALL into Dhimmitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Hooray! Chalk up another victory for the religion of peace! 859365[/snapback] It's not as simple as pointing a finger at Islam. ANY religion, allowed to go unchecked by reality, would be doing exactly the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 It's not as simple as pointing a finger at Islam. ANY religion, allowed to go unchecked by reality, would be doing exactly the same thing. 859390[/snapback] Religion is pabulum. It's the one thing Marx was RIGHT about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yall Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 It's not as simple as pointing a finger at Islam. ANY religion, allowed to go unchecked by reality, would be doing exactly the same thing. 859390[/snapback] But this IS the religion that is operating violently, and unchecked right now. If this were the 16th century I'd be making the same complaints about Catholicism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 It's not as simple as pointing a finger at Islam. ANY religion, allowed to go unchecked by reality, would be doing exactly the same thing. 859390[/snapback] I challenge that assertion. Do you really thing Judiasm and Christianity is looking to force non-beleivers into submission (and would) the way Islam is right now? Is the Vatican looking to militarize? Yes, other religions are forced to stay "in check", as you say. But NONE is going as far as Islam is right now. All you need to do is listen to Muslim leaders, many of whom are calling for this very Country to become an Islamic one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 I challenge that assertion. Do you really thing Judiasm and Christianity is looking to force non-beleivers into submission (and would) the way Islam is right now? Is the Vatican looking to militarize? Right now? Nah. They don't have the power required anymore because THEY ALREADY GOT SMACKED DOWN. Thank goodness. Yes, other religions are forced to stay "in check", as you say. But NONE is going as far as Islam is right now. All you need to do is listen to Muslim leaders, many of whom are calling for this very Country to become an Islamic one. 859442[/snapback] Let me know when the Christians or Catholics have complete control of any country again (as Islam does with an entire region of the world). Within a couple of generations, they'd be pulling this crap too. But we can pretend they'd be different because pointing the finger at ourselves or those who theoretically believe as we do is wicked hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yall Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Right now? Nah. They don't have the power required anymore because THEY ALREADY GOT SMACKED DOWN. Thank goodness. Let me know when the Christians or Catholics have complete control of any country again (as Islam does with an entire region of the world). Within a couple of generations, they'd be pulling this crap too. But we can pretend they'd be different because pointing the finger at ourselves or those who theoretically believe as we do is wicked hard. 859449[/snapback] Cosidering the amount of Christians/Catholics in Italy and South America, and the fact they aren't pulling this crap, I'd say your point isn't valid. Islam needs it's reformist period. And when you take the history of Islam into consideration you must include it's violent past as well as the violent history of it's founder. Monkey see, monkey do...(and please folks, that's just an expression, not to be interpreted as a slight towards anyone's skin color or ethnicity). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 At least Christianity doesn't have a history of violence or forced conversions. Oh wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yall Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 At least Christianity doesn't have a history of violence or forced conversions. Oh wait. 859535[/snapback] But that isn't really going on now, or at least it's a miniscule percentage compared to what is going on in the present. I'm not worried about the ghost of Pope Pious coming to convert or behead me. I am worried about the amount of people that want to force Shira upon the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 But that isn't really going on now, or at least it's a miniscule percentage compared to what is going on in the present. I'm not worried about the ghost of Pope Pious coming to convert or behead me. I am worried about the amount of people that want to force Shira upon the world. 859577[/snapback] I think one of the points that AD was trying to make, or at least how I interpreted it, is that this struggle has already been played out in Christianity and they don't have the power to do such things anymore. Islam, on the other hand, maintains enough power in the Middle East to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Cosidering the amount of Christians/Catholics in Italy and South America, and the fact they aren't pulling this crap, I'd say your point isn't valid. Really? Which country is ruled by clerics citing strict interpretations of the Bible? Venezuela? Guyana? Give me a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 I think one of the points that AD was trying to make, or at least how I interpreted it, is that this struggle has already been played out in Christianity and they don't have the power to do such things anymore. Islam, on the other hand, maintains enough power in the Middle East to do so. 859746[/snapback] Bingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yall Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 I think one of the points that AD was trying to make, or at least how I interpreted it, is that this struggle has already been played out in Christianity and they don't have the power to do such things anymore. Islam, on the other hand, maintains enough power in the Middle East to do so. 859746[/snapback] But he implies they would if they could, which I feel is probably untrue, because there has already been a reformation period. Without some kind of reform, it (edit : Islam) will continue to be an oppressive and violent religion. Where is Mohammed Luther when you need him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 But he implies they would if they could, which I feel is probably untrue, because there has already been a reformation period. Without some kind of reform, it (edit : Islam) will continue to be an oppressive and violent religion. Where is Mohammed Luther when you need him? 859785[/snapback] Right, because there's no way the zealots (like the ones who bomb abortion clinics in the name of God) could ever make their way back to the top of the chain. Sorry, mate. History doesn't agree with you. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The phrase exists for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yall Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Really? Which country is ruled by clerics citing strict interpretations of the Bible? Venezuela? Guyana? Give me a break. 859783[/snapback] You never said anything about religious control. You said "when the Christians or Catholics have complete control of any country again" which does describe a lot of South America. Considering the bulk of the South American populus considers itself Christian (including elected officials) I'd say it's pretty firmly in control of Christians. But once again, a thread pointing out major problems with modern Islam, it's interpretation and practice, has involved an inexplicable comparison to Christianity. The two are very different religions from their roots, with one being prone to inciting violence due to the violent nature of it's founder. It needs to be discussed and I'd like to see some Muslim leaders address this issue in particular. The problem then becomes that any percieved criticism of the prophet seems to get someone killed somewhere. edit:poor grammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yall Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Right, because there's no way the zealots (like the ones who bomb abortion clinics in the name of God) could ever make their way back to the top of the chain. Sorry, mate. History doesn't agree with you. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The phrase exists for a reason. 859788[/snapback] Jeez dude, get your story straight From BlueFire: "I think one of the points that AD was trying to make, or at least how I interpreted it, is that this struggle has already been played out in Christianity and they don't have the power to do such things anymore. Islam, on the other hand, maintains enough power in the Middle East to do so." To which you replied: "Bingo" So which is it: "Struggle already played out" or "zealots back on top of the food chain?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Jeez dude, get your story straight From BlueFire: "I think one of the points that AD was trying to make, or at least how I interpreted it, is that this struggle has already been played out in Christianity and they don't have the power to do such things anymore. Islam, on the other hand, maintains enough power in the Middle East to do so." To which you replied: "Bingo" So which is it: "Struggle already played out" or "zealots back on top of the food chain?" 859803[/snapback] I'm not sure what you're having difficulty understanding. While Christianity may have a stronghold on certain populaces (meaning the majority of citizens are believers), they don't control governments or policy ANYWHERE in the manner they used to OR Islam does NOW. You may believe that's because of the some kind of reform. I don't. I have little doubt if the Christians were ever to gain such control again (like the Muslims have in Iran as one example), it wouldn't take more than a couple of generations before they started going off the deep end again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 I'm not sure what you're having difficulty understanding. While Christianity may have a stronghold on certain populaces (meaning the majority of citizens are believers), they don't control governments or policy ANYWHERE in the manner they used to OR Islam does NOW. You may believe that's because of the some kind of reform. I don't. I have little doubt if the Christians were ever to gain such control again (like the Muslims have in Iran as one example), it wouldn't take more than a couple of generations before they started going off the deep end again. 859810[/snapback] Perhaps. But its happenning NOW with Islam...and they arent even in control yet. Therein lies the difference. From an Article by Larry Elder, "War is not the answer." Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad speaks to Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan (not pictured) during an official meeting in Tehran December 3, 2006. REUTERS/Morteza Nikoubazl (IRAN) Osama bin Laden's 1998 fatwa urged Muslims to target American civilians as "a religious duty." Michael Scheuer, who created and ran the CIA's bin Laden unit, says that in 2003 bin Laden got a Saudi sheik to issue a fatwa authorizing the use of nuclear weapons against Americans, to retaliate for Muslims killed in the "holy war." Jordanian journalist Fouad Hussein, for his book "Al-Zarqawi: Al-Qaeda's Second Generation," interviewed several of bin Laden's top lieutenants, including the late Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. Hussein outlines al-Qaeda's strategy of seven phases -- the first one beginning as an "awakening" for Muslims worldwide following the September 11 attacks. The plan culminates with the "definitive victory" of "one-and-a-half billion Muslims" and the establishment of a global Islamic caliphate by 2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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