bluv Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 No matter how much anybody wants to say that JP will never amount to anything, just based on stats and the eye test alone, anyone who watches the Bills on a regular basis can tell that the kid has gotten better. If you look at his stats from the game where he showed his first glimpse of potential, the KC game where he came off the bench for an injured KH until now he has gotten progressively better. His worse games have came against the Pats and Bears in that time period. If you compare his numbers to most QB's that have become good in this league he is right on par and that has come with subpar blocking and an average receiving corp with no TE passing threat whatsoever. Now while this doesn't guarntee greatness by any means or that he will get better but no one can deny that he hasn't. To the JP haters just get off his case and just open your eyes. To his apologist we can't make up every excuse for him and not place the blame everywhere but at him and admit that he still has a ways to go to be a complete QB. Bottom line: he is just an average QB right now which isn't bad for a young QB. He can't carry a team with his arm yet but if he was on a stronger team he could be a winner. I mean afew more plays made by his team mates and we'd be 4-3 or maybe 5-2 and we wouldn't be having such discussion. Who knows whether he (or the Bills for that matter) will get better but you can't deny that he hasn't in his 1st 16 starts! 2005 +----------+--------------------------+----------------+ | WK OPP | CMP ATT PYD TD INT | RSH YD TD | +----------+--------------------------+----------------+ | 10 kan | 9 16 137 2 0 | 4 3 0 | | 11 sdg | 20 36 168 1 1 | 2 30 0 | | 12 car | 16 29 197 0 1 | 2 2 0 | | 13 mia | 13 26 224 3 1 | 3 10 0 | | 14 nwe | 10 27 181 1 3 | 1 7 0 | +----------+--------------------------+----------------+ | TOTAL | 113 228 1340 8 8 | 31 154 0 | +----------+--------------------------+----------------+ 2006 +----------+--------------------------+----------------+ | WK OPP | CMP ATT PYD TD INT | RSH YD TD | +----------+--------------------------+----------------+ | 1 nwe | 15 23 164 0 0 | 1 0 0 | | 2 mia | 11 18 83 1 0 | 2 10 0 | | 3 nyj | 22 38 328 1 1 | 3 14 1 | | 4 min | 23 32 222 1 0 | 4 17 0 | | 5 chi | 14 27 115 1 3 | 3 8 0 | | 6 det | 21 34 207 2 1 | 3 16 0 | | 7 nwe | 16 25 193 0 1 | 3 13 0 | +----------+--------------------------+----------------+ | TOTAL | 122 197 1312 6 6 | 19 78 1 | +----------+--------------------------+----------------+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarthur31 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 What really scares me is that he continues to fumble the football. Another Warren Moon on our hands? Except maybe the HOF credentials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 What really scares me is that he continues to fumble the football. Another Warren Moon on our hands? Except maybe the HOF credentials. 816735[/snapback] That's what bothers me, too. I want this kid to succeed more than anyone....but he's gotta hold on to the football. Seems like he's getting a fair bit better between the 20s, but then he'll take a dumb sack and/or turn it over as we're approaching the red zone. It wouldn't be so bad if our defense could make up for that, but they aren't really making the sort of plays we expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generaLee83 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 That's what bothers me, too. I want this kid to succeed more than anyone....but he's gotta hold on to the football. Seems like he's getting a fair bit better between the 20s, but then he'll take a dumb sack and/or turn it over as we're approaching the red zone. It wouldn't be so bad if our defense could make up for that, but they aren't really making the sort of plays we expected. 816740[/snapback] I'm a big JP hoper (not a word) and his fumbling does concern me. I'll excuse several of the fumbles though because they were hits from his blind side (LT Gandy playing excellently as usual). He's had 3 good games and 4 rough games. I will not write someone off when they're near 50% when it comes to succeeding especially with a really terrible OL (there's no denying that) and WR's that appear to give up on their routes after five seconds (Price mainly but Reed is noticeable too). I'm definitely giving him this entire season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATBNG Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 The title of this thread would seem to describe the opposite of the text's argument. Three negatives = a negative. Stats don't mean that much. David Carr is having a fabulous statistical year because his bad team has dug themselves into a huge hole four times and he's spent the second half chucking it. It's nice to see the improved accuracy, but he's still not averaging enough yards per pass play to say that that improved accuracy is meaningful. The improved accuracy has seemingly come with a price in terms of scoring (.87 TD passes per game versus 1.6) and yards gained (40% less in '06 per game). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluv Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 The title of this thread would seem to describe the opposite of the text's argument. Three negatives = a negative. Stats don't mean that much. David Carr is having a fabulous statistical year because his bad team has dug themselves into a huge hole four times and he's spent the second half chucking it. It's nice to see the improved accuracy, but he's still not averaging enough yards per pass play to say that that improved accuracy is meaningful. The improved accuracy has seemingly come with a price in terms of scoring (.87 TD passes per game versus 1.6) and yards gained (40% less in '06 per game). 817187[/snapback] For one, Carr still hasn't passed for many yards though. Back to the subject, no matter what anybody says about JP, he is playing like an AVERAGE QB on a SUB AVERAAGE team that is rebuilding. For 16 starts under normal progression that is not too bad. I mean if Young or Matt Leinart have similar stats next year but their team start 2-5 ther wouldn't be as much pressure to replace a young QB. His biggest problem as of late has been fumbling but 99% of QB's who have gotten hit on the plays where JP has fumbled when he is hit blindside as soon as he sets up will fumble. Like I posted earlier, he is just not good enough to carry this or any team yet. He may never be able to; who knows? His play so far this year was what was expected of him last year: to be carried by a team with a strong running game and a top Defense. All of those including JP fell short of expectations. He has played as good as Drew did his last year when we rebounded from 0-4 to finish 9-7. IF we had the same D and running game as we did in 2004 we'd be 5-2 this year with the same play from JP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantankerous Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 He freezes up, can't make a quick decision it seems to me...Can't hold onto the football (even when it's just a referee making contact) I'm pretty tired of "waiting" for Losman to look like a real QB. Maybe someday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 He freezes up, can't make a quick decision it seems to me...Can't hold onto the football (even when it's just a referee making contact) I'm pretty tired of "waiting" for Losman to look like a real QB. Maybe someday. 817244[/snapback] not to say losman is great, but are you tired of waiting on gandy, villarreal, the TE (take your pick), the center (again, take your pick), and the left guard (again, take your pick)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 The title of this thread would seem to describe the opposite of the text's argument. Three negatives = a negative. Stats don't mean that much. David Carr is having a fabulous statistical year because his bad team has dug themselves into a huge hole four times and he's spent the second half chucking it. It's nice to see the improved accuracy, but he's still not averaging enough yards per pass play to say that that improved accuracy is meaningful. The improved accuracy has seemingly come with a price in terms of scoring (.87 TD passes per game versus 1.6) and yards gained (40% less in '06 per game). 817187[/snapback] Your numbers are off. The totals at the bottom of the '05 set are for the full year, not just the five games he cites. The rest of the data was truncated. For the five games cited in '05 versus the seven in '06 the statistics you refer to are actually: '05 7 TD 907 YDS in 5 games (1.4 TD/Game, 181.4 YDs/Game) '06 6 TD 1212 YDS in 7 games (0.85 TD/Game, 187.4 YDs/Game, +3.3% YoY) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haus Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 OF 13 games 8 have been under 200 yards passing. To me that spells trouble. Why not start one of the others until any possibility of playoffs are gone and then let JP back in to get his "practice". Sorry but starting to loose hope that JP is gona work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haus Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 whoops of 12 games, 4 been over 200 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swift Sylvan Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 No matter how much anybody wants to say that JP will never amount to anything, just based on stats and the eye test alone, anyone who watches the Bills on a regular basis can tell that the kid has gotten better. If you look at his stats from the game where he showed his first glimpse of potential, the KC game where he came off the bench for an injured KH until now he has gotten progressively better. His worse games have came against the Pats and Bears in that time period. If you compare his numbers to most QB's that have become good in this league he is right on par and that has come with subpar blocking and an average receiving corp with no TE passing threat whatsoever. Now while this doesn't guarntee greatness by any means or that he will get better but no one can deny that he hasn't. To the JP haters just get off his case and just open your eyes. To his apologist we can't make up every excuse for him and not place the blame everywhere but at him and admit that he still has a ways to go to be a complete QB. Bottom line: he is just an average QB right now which isn't bad for a young QB. He can't carry a team with his arm yet but if he was on a stronger team he could be a winner. I mean afew more plays made by his team mates and we'd be 4-3 or maybe 5-2 and we wouldn't be having such discussion. Who knows whether he (or the Bills for that matter) will get better but you can't deny that he hasn't in his 1st 16 starts! 2005 +----------+--------------------------+----------------+ | WK OPP | CMP ATT PYD TD INT | RSH YD TD | +----------+--------------------------+----------------+ | 10 kan | 9 16 137 2 0 | 4 3 0 | | 11 sdg | 20 36 168 1 1 | 2 30 0 | | 12 car | 16 29 197 0 1 | 2 2 0 | | 13 mia | 13 26 224 3 1 | 3 10 0 | | 14 nwe | 10 27 181 1 3 | 1 7 0 | +----------+--------------------------+----------------+ | TOTAL | 113 228 1340 8 8 | 31 154 0 | +----------+--------------------------+----------------+ 2006 +----------+--------------------------+----------------+ | WK OPP | CMP ATT PYD TD INT | RSH YD TD | +----------+--------------------------+----------------+ | 1 nwe | 15 23 164 0 0 | 1 0 0 | | 2 mia | 11 18 83 1 0 | 2 10 0 | | 3 nyj | 22 38 328 1 1 | 3 14 1 | | 4 min | 23 32 222 1 0 | 4 17 0 | | 5 chi | 14 27 115 1 3 | 3 8 0 | | 6 det | 21 34 207 2 1 | 3 16 0 | | 7 nwe | 16 25 193 0 1 | 3 13 0 | +----------+--------------------------+----------------+ | TOTAL | 122 197 1312 6 6 | 19 78 1 | +----------+--------------------------+----------------+ 816711[/snapback] I agree with you JP has progressed. I don't know why people are talking about anything else in this thread. It's pretty much a yes (I agree) or no (I disagree) question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotta Dream Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 Why don't they role him out more? Wouldn't taking him outside of the pocket give him a little more time? Traditionally everyone always wants a drop back passer. But when a QB is agile enough, and athletic enough, why wouldn't they role him him out? Especially with our line being as bad as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 Your numbers are off. The totals at the bottom of the '05 set are for the full year, not just the five games he cites. The rest of the data was truncated. For the five games cited in '05 versus the seven in '06 the statistics you refer to are actually: '05 7 TD 907 YDS in 5 games (1.4 TD/Game, 181.4 YDs/Game) '06 6 TD 1212 YDS in 7 games (0.85 TD/Game, 187.4 YDs/Game, +3.3% YoY) 817400[/snapback] When you present the numbers that way, it doesn't look like he's made that much progress at all. And when you watch him play, it just seems like there's something missing. Especially these last few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 When you present the numbers that way, it doesn't look like he's made that much progress at all. And when you watch him play, it just seems like there's something missing. Especially these last few weeks. 817432[/snapback] That's because the person who originally cited those statistics (incorrectly) omitted the statistics that would hurt his/her argument. The missing statistics: '05 134 Att 68 Comp 50.7% *(5 Games Cited Above) '06 197 Att 122 Comp 61.9 % (+23.47%) That's progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 whoops of 12 games, 4 been over 200 . 817413[/snapback] Remembering that this thread is about JPs obvious improvements......& it was in his first 15 starts not 12..... 3x200+ & 1x300+ games Last year JP started 8 games. The 1st 4 were.... 170, 113, 75, 75 The second 4 were.... 168, 197, 224, 181 In terms of yardage there was obvious improvement last season. This year JP has started 7 games....2x200+ games & a 300+ game 164, 83, 328, 224, 115, 207, 193 His last 5 games he has averaged 213.4. In comparrison to Roethlisburger..... In his first 15 starts.... 4x200+ & 1x300+ games In his last 5 games of those he had.....2x200+ games & a 300+ game.....just like JP......mind you, he was a rookie......but then again he had a top level OL & star tallent at the skills possitions around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneonta Buffalo Fan Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 What really scares me is that he continues to fumble the football. Another Warren Moon on our hands? Except maybe the HOF credentials. 816735[/snapback] I wonder if Brady Quinn is the new way of the future.....hmmm... He will be if Jp continues to play like this. I don't know if this is true or not but it seems like Jp fumbles 2 or more times a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 I wonder if Brady Quinn is the new way of the future.....hmmm... He will be if Jp continues to play like this. I don't know if this is true or not but it seems like Jp fumbles 2 or more times a game. 817487[/snapback] Why is Brady Quinn the "way" (sic) of the future? What has he shown you? That he has potential? Do you see anything about this team that tells you that he would be be able to use this current roster to capitalize on his potential any better than Losman has? I don't. And I sure as hell don't want to see another wasted high pick on a QB. We need to address our other problems next year and see if Losman can grow into the role. Pretense of being "only a QB" away is going to lead to yet more setbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOOOOOO Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 When you present the numbers that way, it doesn't look like he's made that much progress at all. And when you watch him play, it just seems like there's something missing. Especially these last few weeks. 817432[/snapback] Yea an OLINE maybe??? naw it couldnt be that now.. could it?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 That's because the person who originally cited those statistics (incorrectly) omitted the statistics that would hurt his/her argument. The missing statistics: '05 134 Att 68 Comp 50.7% *(5 Games Cited Above) '06 197 Att 122 Comp 61.9 % (+23.47%) That's progress. 817441[/snapback] His actual Comp last season....49.6%(entire year) This season 61.9% (+12.3%) Big Improvement. .....and in terms of yardage..... His first 8 starts last season......150.4ypg His 7 starts this season.......187.7ypg Improvement. .....and in terms of QBR...... Last season.....64.9 This season.....78.9 Big improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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