true_blue_bill Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 And I believe something like 80% of Iraqis want us to leave, too http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/...em/itemID/13414 - More adults in the United States believe the coalition effort should come to an end, according to a poll by Gallup released by USA Today. 37 per cent of respondents think the U.S. should enact an immediate withdrawal of troops from Iraq, up six points since June. In addition, 30 per cent of respondents believe the U.S. military should stay the course, while 26 per cent suggest a gradual withdrawal of soldiers. The coalition effort against Saddam Hussein’s regime was launched in March 2003. At least 2,741 American soldiers have died during the military operation, and more than 20,600 troops have been wounded in action. In December 2005, Iraqi voters renewed their National Assembly. In May, Shiite United Iraqi Alliance member Nouri al-Maliki officially took over as prime minister. On Sept. 30, the Washington Post reported that, according to a new book written by Bob Woodward, White House chief of staff Andrew Card attempted to persuade Bush to fire defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld after the 2004 presidential election, and replace him with former U.S. state secretary James Baker. On Oct. 1, Rumsfeld said his relationship with national leaders has not been affected, adding, "They don’t seem to pay a lot of attention to it, mostly you do. That’s all you (reporters) do is read these books, you ought to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfanone Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Let the animals kill each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
true_blue_bill Posted October 11, 2006 Author Share Posted October 11, 2006 Let the animals kill each other. 801387[/snapback] Says the smiley face! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 That poll might be meaningful if foreign policy was like American Idol or Survivor. What's the phone number to vote America off the island? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 That poll might be meaningful if foreign policy was like American Idol or Survivor. What's the phone number to vote America off the island? 801409[/snapback] We live in a democracy. Foreign policy is like American Idol or Survivor, by definition. The problem is that people generally put more thought into American Idol than they do foreign policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 We live in a democracy. Foreign policy is like American Idol or Survivor, by definition. 801411[/snapback] Actually it's a representative democracy. Those we have elected to represent us formulate the policy. To change the policy we must elect representatives who will change the policy, which may occur within the next month The problem is that people generally put more thought into American Idol than they do foreign policy. 801411[/snapback] That's what I was hinting at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Actually it's a representative democracy. Those we have elected to represent us formulate the policy. To change the policy we must elect representatives who will change the policy, which may occur within the next month 801417[/snapback] Actually, it hardly matters. Bread and Circuses. Or am I the only one that noticed that New Orleans is "rebuilt" because they spent tens (if not hundreds) of millions getting the Superdome ready for MNF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Actually, it hardly matters. Bread and Circuses. Or am I the only one that noticed that New Orleans is "rebuilt" because they spent tens (if not hundreds) of millions getting the Superdome ready for MNF? 801432[/snapback] Yeah, and the Saints have a winning record!! What's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Yeah, and the Saints have a winning record!! What's your point? 801454[/snapback] Bread, dammit! I want my bread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Bread, dammit! I want my bread! 801458[/snapback] What about your gubbamint cheeze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 We live in a democracy. Foreign policy is like American Idol or Survivor, by definition. The problem is that people generally put more thought into American Idol than they do foreign policy. 801411[/snapback] Hell, a lot of that is because many people are incapable of putting more thought into foreign policy, whereas they can relate to American Idol. I'd argue that most people don't understand even an iota of what the democratization process accomplishes when its successful, and aren't capable of looking outside of the normal sources to investigate it. "I'd like to find out more about this whole democracy in the middle east thingamagiggy, I think I'll turn to the always-reliable sources at Fox News to understand it." Most people would walk into a bookstore and have a hard time discerning between different authors and books to the point of being able to find one where someone actually knows what they're talking about. Actually, it hardly matters. Bread and Circuses. Or am I the only one that noticed that New Orleans is "rebuilt" because they spent tens (if not hundreds) of millions getting the Superdome ready for MNF? 801432[/snapback] Go, go PR teams! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 What about your gubbamint cheeze 801461[/snapback] I had some...but my chicken jumped out of the pot and ate it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Bread, dammit! I want my bread! 801458[/snapback] You may have a point. Bread bounces better when slung from a helicopter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNRed Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 The problem is that people generally put more thought into American Idol than they do foreign policy. 801411[/snapback] As evidenced by these threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
true_blue_bill Posted October 11, 2006 Author Share Posted October 11, 2006 That poll might be meaningful if foreign policy was like American Idol or Survivor. What's the phone number to vote America off the island? 801409[/snapback] Yup, so true! We went into this thing that way. It was all going to be an easy job. The mob wanted a 'splendid little war' and got it. Let's face it, Saddam had personally flown all four of the planes on 9-11 and he had to be punished! But in all seriousness, staying accomplishes nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Yup, so true! We went into this thing that way. It was all going to be an easy job. The mob wanted a 'splendid little war' and got it. Let's face it, Saddam had personally flown all four of the planes on 9-11 and he had to be punished! Yeah. It was just that easy. People like you are why people like Mark Foley get elected. But in all seriousness, staying accomplishes nothing. 801492[/snapback] How so? Details, man, details. You're either arguing that leaving improves things, or changes nothing...which means you're arguing that staying either further devolves things or changes nothing. So please, expound. Share with us your insight on how the different options affect Iraqi and US security... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
true_blue_bill Posted October 11, 2006 Author Share Posted October 11, 2006 Yeah. It was just that easy. People like you are why people like Mark Foley get elected. How so? Details, man, details. You're either arguing that leaving improves things, or changes nothing...which means you're arguing that staying either further devolves things or changes nothing. So please, expound. Share with us your insight on how the different options affect Iraqi and US security... 801498[/snapback] Ya, it was that easy. Bush stirred up the stupidest among us[American Idol Crowd?] and said we were in mortal danger if we didn't invade. He still says is was a necessary war. LOL, that's funny, and sad. Has he found those WMD under the table he was joking about the same day men died actually looking for them? You remember that joke by the President? Probably not. Mark Foley? Go drink another one. The American people are right, this war was a mistake and those who wanted a war so bad, just to have a war, because it made them feel good at the very least should feel ashamed, but of course they don't. They are happy with the war. Its a war and that just makes them happy. The Iraqis will have their Civil War, we had ours, God bless them, just get our boys out of there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 This is going to be fun. Ya, it was that easy. Bush stirred up the stupidest among us[American Idol Crowd?] and said we were in mortal danger if we didn't invade. Yeah, he just magically stirred up the support by appealing to stupid, American Idol people? I guess that would explain why the NY Times, Tom Friedman, and others in the "American Idol" crowd supported it, to name a few common agenda-setters in the media. He still says is was a necessary war. LOL, that's funny, and sad. Has he found those WMD under the table he was joking about the same day men died actually looking for them? You remember that joke by the President? Probably not. Mark Foley? Go drink another one. So if you want to debate the President on whether it was a necessary war or not, how about not focusing on WMDs? While the whole WMD thing might HAVE been a non-issue to go to war, that doesn't automatically discredit the war effort. If you want to debate whether or not this war is necessary you have to look at the other effects/consequences of what fighting this war meant. The American people are right, this war was a mistake and those who wanted a war so bad, just to have a war, because it made them feel good at the very least should feel ashamed, but of course they don't. They are happy with the war. Its a war and that just makes them happy. The Iraqis will have their Civil War, we had ours, God bless them, just get our boys out of there. 801501[/snapback] lol, they wanted a war because it made them feel good? Yeah, I'm sure the Prez feels happy every time someone dies in Iraq. I don't like the guy and I think he's a phony on a lot of his compassionate conservativeism junk, but jesus man, do you really think that war makes him feel good? If you want to debate whether this war was a mistake or not, it might be helpful to take a look at the Wilsonian era of foreign policy, what we knew of Iraqi civilization and its effects on nation building would be, and other such topics, like the effect of democratization on Middle Eastern and other countries in the world. Oh yeah, and you might also want to look at it from the intelligence we had at the time, since hindsight is 20/20. Now you want us to just leave Iraq? What purpose does that serve, really? At this point whats really necessary is a revamp of our attempt to build democracy in Iraq and strengthen the government there. Just up and leaving is going to do *nothing* for us in the future. The military has done a good job recently of making headway in this issue. I had been critical of them in the past, but I read a great story in the NY Times that provided plenty of encouragement. They are completely reworking their strategy on the ground in post-war Iraq, and it had many, many positives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicot Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Supposedly the US is only going to be in Iraq for as long as the Iraqis want them there. If that is the case, the obvious thing to do is to hold a referendum on whether the troops stay or go (or at the very least a definite timetable be set for their departure). Of course, there's always the possibility that that's just so much bs and the US will stay in Iraq for as long as it damn well pleases, whether the Iraqis like it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
true_blue_bill Posted October 11, 2006 Author Share Posted October 11, 2006 This is going to be fun.Yeah, he just magically stirred up the support by appealing to stupid, American Idol people? I guess that would explain why the NY Times, Tom Friedman, and others in the "American Idol" crowd supported it, to name a few common agenda-setters in the media. If you want to debate whether or not this war is necessary you have to look at the other effects/consequences of what fighting this war meant. lol, they wanted a war because it made them feel good? Yeah, I'm sure the Prez feels happy every time someone dies in Iraq. I don't like the guy and I think he's a phony on a lot of his compassionate conservativeism junk, but jesus man, do you really think that war makes him feel good? If you want to debate whether this war was a mistake or not, it might be helpful to take a look at the Wilsonian era of foreign policy, what we knew of Iraqi civilization and its effects on nation building would be, and other such topics, like the effect of democratization on Middle Eastern and other countries in the world. Oh yeah, and you might also want to look at it from the intelligence we had at the time, since hindsight is 20/20. Now you want us to just leave Iraq? What purpose does that serve, really? At this point whats really necessary is a revamp of our attempt to build democracy in Iraq and strengthen the government there. Just up and leaving is going to do *nothing* for us in the future. 801525[/snapback] You obviously were not following the thread. I was mocking the notion that now the American people are stupid, but when we started this mess they were somehow enlightened. I don't have a lot of time right this second, but you are wrong about the NYTimes. Friedman may have supported this fiasco, but the Times editorial board did not. Judith Miller obvioulsy did also, but she is another story. And Wilson's foreign policy doen'st help us on this war now. Sure it adds insight into how the nation was coupled together but so what? I think you are simply trying to sound pedanic. And does a president want to wage war? Did Bush? If you think people don't enjoy war on some level then the study of human history has been lost on you. You see his Saddam trophy? How much fun he had being the 'Wartime President.' Ya, he wanted a war to make himself feel tough. Go listen to some country music songs that were written before the war and how this was all about revenge, then tell me people don't enjoy war. And that comes back to my point, if the people are stupid now for wanting to leave as a previous poster said, then they were just as stupid during the rush to war in 2003. Have a good day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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