portisizzle Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Gentlemen, I have spent some time on this Board reading posts about your new head coach and Marv Levy. My brother, and diehard Buffalo fan had a one hour discussion about the dunderheaded remarks being made on this board. I felt compelled to remark on this discussion with a view from an outside fan. As I see it some posters consider past success and an indicator of future results. As a Redskin fan I can assure you that I am very satisfied with a one Gregg Williams. A past "unsuccessful" coach of you Buffalo Bills. Our front office is so satisfied that they have guaranteed Williams $1,000,000 if he is NOT selected as the next Redskin coach when Gibbs steps down. I don't know where all the hate is coming from with regard to past coaches of your team. I listen to this site blowing up on Marv, Jauron, the Blue Buffalo that runs around the field on an ATV dragging an opponents body, and everyone else who might listen. But then again, that is why you are all fans. What the hell else you going to do in the offseason; play tiddly winks? But let me interject a bit of information for you all to chew on. As a member of extremeskins.com we have the opportunity to chat with our coaches, players, and even the owner. These chats are extremely enlightening because it give the Redskins fans the chance to probe into the minds of the team in order to later have RATIONAL discussion amongst ourselves. I had the chance to ask Joe Gibbs the exact question that another thread started asked last night. See what you think of the answer from Joe.... Extremeskins Chat w/ Joe Gibbs You can scroll down to the question I ask about halfway down. And here is the question and answer..... From portissizzle Would you please give us your thoughts on the following quote by Marv Levy. "Systems don't win, players do." Do you think you have the players in place to make a run this year? Quote: Joe Gibbs I sure do like our players. I think we’ve worked hard to getting the right kind of guys. I think we got them. I think we have a good locker room. So, now how talented are we are going to be, how we’re going to play on the field ... (we'll see). But I agree with Marv that you do win with players and our goal here is to add the right kinds of guys to the Redskins. --------------------------- Keep in mind this question was posed before our season began and we were on the heels of a terrible season last year. A Redskin fan did not have much hope going into this season that we, of all teams, would make a push in the playoffs. But you could tell our coaches did their job and brought players in that they believed in and allowed them to perform. THIS is the important question of the day for a Buffalo fan. Who is going to play for the Buffalo Bills down the road? Are the Bills going to continue building a stout defense that already exists? The fact that they hired a defensive guru would suggest that, yes, you will have a great defense going forward. The only real question with regard to your team is if Losman is indeed the "man" in Buffalo. If you can get reliable performance from the QB position, who knows how far you team can go. But make no mistake, how far your team can go is NOT a function of how good/bad Jauron is/was. It has more to do with getting players to perform at a professional level. I think Marv is the perfect person to stabilize an organization so they can focus on performance and winning. Just like one Joseph Jackson Gibbs did for my team two years ago. My two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 can't you see people are going out of their way to be cranky and miserable here? quit trying to add a sober perspective to all the bellyaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalofan72 Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 can't you see people are going out of their way to be cranky and miserable here? quit trying to add a sober perspective to all the bellyaching. 579623[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregroland17 Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 great post. even though jauron wasn't who i would have liked to see he is a defensive guy, which i like. the bears d seems to be doing well now, wonder if he was part of building that. i am not a manager and apparently they had their reasons for hiring jauron. i would like to see the reasons behind it, hopefully it wasn't a friendly hire. we'll see how it pans out though. i am not too excited but all that means is that i won't really be able to be disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 My two cents. 579587[/snapback] So if the Skins had hired Jauron rather than Gibbs a few years ago, you'd be OK with that? Uh huh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dry martini Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Very nice. However, in 1991-92, Joe Gibbs took a team of 22, with, IIFC, 7-10 Plan B free agents (the old plan b, i.e., other team's cast-offs), around 6 of which started, the others playing key roles, and his third different no-name Super Bowl QB, and plastered the NFC and destroyed the Buffalo team of all talents. At almost every position on the field, Buffalo had a superior athlete. Yet Joe Gibbs and his "system" took the Bills apart like a house of cards. So, from my over 30 years of knowledgeably supporting the Bills, the last 15 from Washington, D.C., where I've had the opportunity to see Joe Gibbs close up, Joe Gibbs's systems do win championships. Nor is the success of Gregg Williams surprising. You'll not find many on this board who can question Williams's defensive abilities. The Bills had a great defense playing in his "system." And now the Redskins defense, which wasn't very good the past few years despite attempted talent upgrades, is now thriving in Gregg's "system." A "system" which, incidentally, thrived without the great Redskin talent that is Lavar Arrington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted January 23, 2006 Author Share Posted January 23, 2006 great post. even though jauron wasn't who i would have liked to see he is a defensive guy, which i like. the bears d seems to be doing well now, wonder if he was part of building that. i am not a manager and apparently they had their reasons for hiring jauron. i would like to see the reasons behind it, hopefully it wasn't a friendly hire. we'll see how it pans out though. i am not too excited but all that means is that i won't really be able to be disappointed. 579632[/snapback] When Joe Gibbs came back to coaching the Redskins who was his first hire? Redskin One FLEW to Buffalo New York and landed Gregg Williams. Joe took care of the defensive side of the football and picked up the best available defensive coach. There is a lot to the saying the Defense wins championships. Frankly? Our defense singlehandedly landed us two weeks into playoff football. Marv knows what he is doing here. IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 I sure do like our players. I think we’ve worked hard to getting the right kind of guys. I think we got them. I think we have a good locker room. So, now how talented are we are going to be, how we’re going to play on the field ... (we'll see). But I agree with Marv that you do win with players and our goal here is to add the right kinds of guys to the Redskins. 579587[/snapback] well, your entire post is contradicted by your 1st assertion. GW is the ULTIMATE system's coach. He has his way of implementing a defense and he will pound the crap out of that square peg until it is crammed into that round hole. That is one of the reason's he is despised around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Your making too much sense for most people around here. People just love to complain. In Marv we trust ! May next year be the start of something special ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dry martini Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 When Joe Gibbs came back to coaching the Redskins who was his first hire?Redskin One FLEW to Buffalo New York and landed Gregg Williams. Joe took care of the defensive side of the football and picked up the best available defensive coach. There is a lot to the saying the Defense wins championships. Frankly? Our defense singlehandedly landed us two weeks into playoff football. Marv knows what he is doing here. IMO. 579656[/snapback] This completely undercuts your point. The Redskins hired a guy with a great defensive track record, built off a great system. He comes in and transforms an average defense into world beaters, not by buying talent, but by getting the players to play his "system." Five year ago, the Redskins tried to build a defense based on talent, specifically Champ Baily and Lavar Arrington. This past year the Skins finally got that great defense, but Baily was gone and Lavar on the bench. The only great talent is Taylor, but if you know anything about a Gregg Williams defense, you would know that a head-hunting strong safety is the cornerstone. So, its all about the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 When Joe Gibbs came back to coaching the Redskins who was his first hire?Redskin One FLEW to Buffalo New York and landed Gregg Williams. Joe took care of the defensive side of the football and picked up the best available defensive coach. There is a lot to the saying the Defense wins championships. Frankly? Our defense singlehandedly landed us two weeks into playoff football. Marv knows what he is doing here. IMO. 579656[/snapback] Check back to us after Gibbs retires and Grego's your new head man. We'll keep the lights on for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted January 23, 2006 Author Share Posted January 23, 2006 So if the Skins had hired Jauron rather than Gibbs a few years ago, you'd be OK with that? Uh huh. 579635[/snapback] To me Jauron is the equivalent of Gregg Williams. When Gregg came onboard do you know what Redskin fans were saying? How in the heck can we have a good defense with no stars players on the team other than Arrington. The whole offseason Williams and Gibbs were picking up unsung heros, role players, and other potential talents. Going into Williams first season, we were worried that Williams defense would be able to keep up their end of the bargain with the vaunted Gibbs offense. What happened in reality? Those role players that Williams and Gibbs picked up did laps around the Gibbs offense. I was so proud of our defense full of no names because they played as a unit. Together. Tight. (Having Sean Taylor didn't hurt either, but that is another story) You ask if I would be OK with Jauron? In the end knowing what I knew of Williams when he was hired versus what he actually DID for our organization? I would say that I am in no positions to carry an opinion. All I can do is observe and analyze. Which is better that piss and moan in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted January 23, 2006 Author Share Posted January 23, 2006 well, your entire post is contradicted by your 1st assertion. GW is the ULTIMATE system's coach. He has his way of implementing a defense and he will pound the crap out of that square peg until it is crammed into that round hole. That is one of the reason's he is despised around here. 579661[/snapback] You are so wrong. What good is the system if you do not have the players willing and able to run it? It all starts with the players. I don't care if you are running Ray Rhodes defense, Gregg Williams defense, Dick LaBeus (Sp?) defense. It is all about the players and getting them to buy into the system. What do you think Marv was saying? That you could go out on a field with an all Pro team and play sand lot football and win? No, you still need a plan and system. It starts with the players first and foremost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dry martini Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 You are so wrong. What good is the system if you do not have the players willing and able to run it? It all starts with the players. I don't care if you are running Randy Rhodes defense, Gregg Williams defense, Dick LaBeus (Sp?) defense. It is all about the players and getting them to buy into the system. What do you think Marv was saying? That you could go out on a field with an all Pro team and play sand lot football and win? No, you still need a plan and system. It starts with the players first and foremost. 579700[/snapback] Despite the fact that Kelly's offense looked a lot like a sandlot team, "Marv's" offensive team of the 90s thrived in old Teddy's "system." Too bad Walt Corey didn't have a system (o.k., a good system) or we might have a few SB banners hanging at the Ralph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 To me Jauron is the equivalent of Gregg Williams. 579686[/snapback] Unfortunately, we don't have a HOF HC coach with four SB rings to run the show while our DC does his thing right now. DC's, even very good ones like GW, are still DC's. We're talking about HCs here. Look at the HCs in the playoffs this year and tell me that experience as the head man -- both in terms of longevity and track record -- doesn't count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted January 23, 2006 Author Share Posted January 23, 2006 This completely undercuts your point. The Redskins hired a guy with a great defensive track record, built off a great system. He comes in and transforms an average defense into world beaters, not by buying talent, but by getting the players to play his "system." Five year ago, the Redskins tried to build a defense based on talent, specifically Champ Baily and Lavar Arrington. This past year the Skins finally got that great defense, but Baily was gone and Lavar on the bench. The only great talent is Taylor, but if you know anything about a Gregg Williams defense, you would know that a head-hunting strong safety is the cornerstone. So, its all about the system. 579673[/snapback] Wrong again, He did not transform and average defense. He rebuilt the defense from the ground up. As far as Arrington? He sat the bench because he did not have what it takes to play disciplined football. Arrington went for the Sportscenter blow up for personal glory. Williams insists upon discipline and gap assignment. So I ask you what is better 1) An All Pro explosive talent that blows people up 70% of the time SPortscenter style but misses the three runs that cost the team the game? or 2) A disciplined super smart player who understands what to do on the field. Players in Levys eyes does not equal buying a team of all pros....... No, the Redskins defense example reinforced Levys point. You get the right players and they can play in any system. The right player, BTW, is not always the superstar talented free agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dry martini Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick in* england Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 To quote Goldie Lookin Chain: Guns don't kill people, Rappers do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted January 23, 2006 Author Share Posted January 23, 2006 Unfortunately, we don't have a HOF HC coach with four SB rings to run the show while our DC does his thing right now. DC's, even very good ones like GW, are still DC's. We're talking about HCs here. Look at the HCs in the playoffs this year and tell me that experience as the head man -- both in terms of longevity and track record -- doesn't count. 579723[/snapback] No, but you do have Marv Levy who went to an unheard of four straight Super Bowls. Why does the bling bling matter? I would argue that Joe Gibbs has been somewhat of a detriment to our offense. After two years he agrees and we hire Al Saunders. Gibbs greatest gift to this organization is bringing pride, discipline, and the players needed to the Nations Capital. Marv can, and will despite all the haters in Buffalo, bring the same results. Just because he is not on the field with a clipboard signifying does not mean he is not making "techtonic" changes to your organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinandjokin Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 50.1% players 49.9% system 100% coach's ability to adjust his system to his players strengths. A coach will not be successful if he thinks he can buy the best athletes and have them make plays on the field, regardless of the defense they play in. At the same time, a coach will not be successful if he thinks 'his' system is the best, and stubbornly refuses to adjust to the strengths and weaknesses of his players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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