Kelly Holcomb

[Mikie2times]

Despite the fact that Kelly is not fully assimilated with the offense I think it's safe to say what kind of QB we have after 2 weeks.

 

What he brings to this offense is the ability to make third down more manageable by converting short passes. That ability means a lot to an offense that wants to control the clock. JP wasn't putting our offense in these types of situations, so yes Kelly has had a big impact on both wins. But at the same time don't discredit how important turnovers and the ground game have been the last two weeks. Kelly is not a game changing QB, but with good play elsewhere he is a QB that we can win with.

 

He seems like a player that would rather check down then take any chance downfield. Perhaps somebody at the games could comment on this, but he doesn't appear to have the arm strength to go downfield.

 

Unfortunately I also have noticed some things in his play that might not have killed us the last two games, but could haunt us down the road. Much like the last QB he doesn’t seem to have much pocket presence and doesn’t protect the football that well. He also has made some panicked decisions that led to INT’s, or potential fumbles on backward passes. The positive is he gets rid of the ball quick, so even though he will make some poor pressure induced decisions he usually has checked down before it reaches that point.

 

We can win with Kelly, and at this point we give ourselves a better chance then if JP was in the game. But Kelly is not a world beater, and for us to keep winning the other phases of our team must play well. This isn't as simple as saying Holcomb is 2-0 and JP is 1-3, Holcomb has gotten plenty of help, and when you figure in the Texans game all three of our victories have been games in which we won the turnover battle, and ran the ball 25+ times.

[bbills17]

Despite the fact that Kelly is not fully assimilated with the offense I think it's safe to say what kind of QB we have after 2 weeks.

 

What he brings to this offense is the ability to make third down more manageable by converting short passes. That ability means a lot to an offense that wants to control the clock. JP wasn't putting our offense in these types of situations, so yes Kelly has had a big impact on both wins. But at the same time don't discredit how important turnovers and the ground game have been the last two weeks. Kelly is not a game changing QB, but with good play elsewhere he is a QB that we can win with.

 

He seems like a player that would rather check down then take any chance downfield.  Perhaps somebody at the games could comment on this, but he doesn't appear to have the arm strength to go downfield.

 

Unfortunately I also have noticed some things in his play that might not have killed us the last two games, but could haunt us down the road. Much like the last QB he doesn’t seem to have much pocket presence and doesn’t protect the football that well. He also has made some panicked decisions that led to INT’s, or potential fumbles on backward passes.  The positive is he gets rid of the ball quick, so even though he will make some poor pressure induced decisions he usually has checked down before it reaches that point.

 

We can win with Kelly, and at this point we give ourselves a better chance then if JP was in the game. But Kelly is not a world beater, and for us to keep winning the other phases of our team must play well.  This isn't as simple as saying Holcomb is 2-0 and JP is 1-3, Holcomb has gotten plenty of help, and when you figure in the Texans game all three of our victories have been games  in which we won  the turnover battle, and ran the ball 25+ times.

477551[/snapback]

 

You may want to remember JP's only decent game was against (quite possibly) the worst team in football. The Texans are really bad.

[Mikie2times]

You may want to remember JP's only decent game was against (quite possibly) the worst team in football.  The Texans are really bad.

477553[/snapback]

 

I factored that in my logic, and again I think Kelly has brought things to the table that JP couldn't bring. He has been a positive factor in both wins, but he is not the reason for them both, and is not a good enough player to overcome the rest of the team playing poorly.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

I factored that in my logic, and again I think Kelly has brought things to the table that JP couldn't bring.  He has been a positive factor in both wins, but he is not the reason for them both, and is not a good enough player to overcome the rest of the team playing poorly.

True, but from my POV, and I'm a JP supporter still, without Holcomb the Bills probably lose. I think that the defense isn't nearly as dominant as it was last year but that the ST's are approaching it, and given that scenario, Holcomb is the right guy.

[IDBillzFan]

You may want to remember JP's only decent game was against (quite possibly) the worst team in football.  The Texans are really bad.

477553[/snapback]

The Texans aspire to be really bad.

 

And this may sound kinda doomsdayish, but unless Kelly Holcomb suddenly starts pulling superhero capes out his asss, he can't get us deep into the playoffs. Not to piss in everyone's Cheerios, but today he was better than a guy who three weeks ago was watching the games at home.

 

At least we're 3-3 and undefeated in the division. So the only one left is NE. Split with them and I'm a happy, albeit compromising, young man.

[bbills17]

True, but from my POV, and I'm a JP supporter still, without Holcomb the Bills probably lose.  I think that the defense isn't nearly as dominant as it was last year but that the ST's are approaching it, and given that scenario, Holcomb is the right guy.

477559[/snapback]

 

Someone mentioned they thought JP would have won these last 2 games as the starter as well. I disagree. JP looked ok against a bad Texans team, and he looked horrible against the Bucs, Falcons, and Saints. I'll bet Holcomb could have helped us win at least one of those 3 losses.

[BB2004]

You may want to remember JP's only decent game was against (quite possibly) the worst team in football.  The Texans are really bad.

477553[/snapback]

 

They're certainly proving it. After looking at their schedule it might be possible that they could lose all 16 games.

[Orton's Arm]

The Bills have a choice to make. On the one hand, they can go with the guy who has the big arm to make downfield plays. On the other, they can choose a guy who doesn't have the same arm strength, but is more aware of where his receivers are, is more accurate on the short and imtermediate passes, and is quicker at getting rid of the ball. Faced with the same decision, Bill Belichick chose Tom Brady over Drew Bledsoe.

[Dawgg]

3 Super Bowls later...

 

What was Belichick thinking?

 

 

 

The Bills have a choice to make. On the one hand, they can go with the guy who has the big arm to make downfield plays. On the other, they can choose a guy who doesn't have the same arm strength, but is more aware of where his receivers are, is more accurate on the short and imtermediate passes, and is quicker at getting rid of the ball. Faced with the same decision, Bill Belichick chose Tom Brady over Drew Bledsoe.

477612[/snapback]

[Mikie2times]

The Bills have a choice to make. On the one hand, they can go with the guy who has the big arm to make downfield plays. On the other, they can choose a guy who doesn't have the same arm strength, but is more aware of where his receivers are, is more accurate on the short and imtermediate passes, and is quicker at getting rid of the ball. Faced with the same decision, Bill Belichick chose Tom Brady over Drew Bledsoe.

477612[/snapback]

 

Easy with the Tom Brady analogy, Brady may not be known for having a canon but he still throws a great deep ball. Kelly has yet to show us that he has the particular attribute.

 

I'm not trying to rag on Holcomb at all, but if we lose this game he is the goat not the hero is being made out to be. He should be starting because he does give this team a better chance to win then JP would, but we all need to stay level with our expectations of Kelly.

 

He has a couple picks, and some questionable decisions, and has yet to complete a ball downfield. He's made up for that with great short throws that have kept the chains moving. That is certainly more production then JP would be getting, but not more so then your average NFL QB.

[Dawgg]

Nobody is saying that Holcomb is Brady, but the point Holcomb's Arm makes is a vaild one. From a talent evaluator's standpoint, Bledsoe would have won out in a heartbeat. Big, strong, cannon arm and extremely accurate. That's why the Rob Johnson experiment lasted 4 years in Buffalo.

 

But there comes a point where you have to rank a QB by his wins and losses. A lot of people ragged on Flutie while he was in Buffalo because he did simlar things... throw great short routes, horrible deep routes, and was often mediocre at best. However, he won games. That's what it's all about, isn't it?

 

Of course, you're right -- if we lost the game, Holcomb might have been the goat. But the point is... we didn't!

 

 

Easy with the Tom Brady analogy, Brady may not be known for having a canon but he still throws a great deep ball. Kelly has yet to show us that he has the particular attribute.

 

I'm not trying to rag on Holcomb at all, but if we lose this game he is the goat not the hero is being made out to be.  He should be starting because he does give this team a better chance to win then JP would, but we all need to stay level with our expectations of Kelly.

 

He has a couple picks, and some questionable decisions, and has yet to complete a ball downfield. He's made up for that with great short throws that have kept the chains moving.  That is certainly more production then JP would be getting, but not more so then your average NFL QB.

477619[/snapback]

[Buftex]

That is certainly more production then JP would be getting, but not more so then your average NFL QB.

477619[/snapback]

 

 

Isn't an "average" QB what most of us, trying to keep our expectations real, hoped for from Losman? We didn't get that, so now we have our average QB, and we have won back to back divisional games with him. Why all the gloom and doom?

 

It has been proven, over and over again the last decade or so, that teams can win with QB's with average skills. I still think, as the season wares on, the O-line will become more effective (especially if the five starters can stay healthy) and that the defense will right some of its' wrongs.

[Mikie2times]

Nobody is saying that Holcomb is Brady, but the point Holcomb's Arm makes is a vaild one.  From a talent evaluator's standpoint, Bledsoe would have won out in a heartbeat.  Big, strong, cannon arm and extremely accurate.  That's why the Rob Johnson experiment lasted 4 years in Buffalo.

 

But there comes a point where you have to rank a QB by his wins and losses.  A lot of people ragged on Flutie while he was in Buffalo because he did simlar things... throw great short routes, horrible deep routes, and was often mediocre at best.  However, he won games. That's what it's all about, isn't it?

 

Of course, you're right -- if we lost the game, Holcomb might have been the goat.  But the point is... we didn't!

477621[/snapback]

 

Sure that’s the bottom line, and that’s why he's playing. Like I said in the original post his ability to complete short passes is critical to our offense. I just hope our expectation on how a QB should play has not fallen so low that we call Holcomb’s play excellent.

 

It was good enough to win against the Jets, and Dolphins, but it must get a lot better to really consider this team a playoff contender. Either that or the defense needs to play like last year, and I don’t see that happening at this point

[Mikie2times]

Isn't an "average" QB what most of us, trying to keep our expectations real, hoped for from Losman?  We didn't get that, so now we have our average QB, and we have won back to back divisional games with him.  Why all the gloom and doom? 

 

It has been proven, over and over again the last decade or so, that teams can win with QB's with average skills.  I still think, as the season wares on, the O-line will become more effective (especially if the five starters can stay healthy) and that the defense will right some of its' wrongs.

477622[/snapback]

 

Average is fine if the rest of the team is good enough to pick up the slack. The ST is very good again, and a healthy line makes a big difference, but an average QB will not win with the way the defense is giving up rushing yards.

 

These last two games felt great and we needed them both to have any chance this year. But I'm looking for an expectation level with this team, and ultimately if the move to Holcomb was the correct long term decision. If we stay in the hunt and finish 8-8 or better then I believe it was the right move.

 

But many aspects of this team were not playing well for JP, and still aren't playing well for Kelly. The jump from Losmans play to Kelly’s play, and the ground game was enough to overcome the aspects of this team that continue to under perform. But the schedule isn’t getting any easier, and an average QB will not be enough to overcome these things against better teams.

[Orton's Arm]

Average is fine if the rest of the team is good enough to pick up the slack.

477626[/snapback]

Thus far, Holcomb has had a high completion percentage but a low yardage total; so you're correct in saying his production here in Buffalo has been average. But Holcomb has had big yardage days with Cleveland, and I feel he can do the same in Buffalo given more aggressive playcalling.

 

Look at what's been expended on the QB position in an effort to replace Kelly. A 2nd round pick on Todd Collins. A 3rd rounder on Billy Joe Hobart. A first and fourth rounder on Rob Johnson. A first rounder for Drew Bledsoe. Picks in the first, second, and fifth rounds for J.P. Losman. If the other areas of the team are worse than last year, maybe it's because of all the investments at the QB position. Where would we be right now if we'd have invested the Losman first rounder on a DT, the second round Losman pick on an offensive left guard, and the fifth round pick on a backup right offensive tackle?