IndyJay1234 Posted September 15, 2004 Author Share Posted September 15, 2004 Because he had a fumble in a game he's not deserving of some list? Then TO shouldn't be on any list, the guy fumbles and drops more balls than any WR in football. As for your second post, it makes aboslutely no sense. I was talking about QBs in the PAST, it had nothing to do with the current team...I didn't mention any other position on the field...you did. This team has plenty of talent, which is why you'll see a healthy Eric Moulds put up great numbers...just like he did 2 years ago and just like he did in the first 5 weeks last year. 31732[/snapback] You will see young Jedi. This team lacks talent. I am not looking foward to being right on this one. This is also not based on one game. This has been my banter all off-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Helllooooo.... Patriots : 1 very good QB 1 very good DE 1 very good K 1 very good CB 1 good RB Bills : 1 very good WR 1 very good RB 2 very good DT's 1 very good LB 1 very good P Not much difference there...Maybe even an edge to Buff It's not all about star players, it's about team. Just ask the Saints, who have a large group of "very good" players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 The problem with this logic is that it is circular. Other than pro player personnel scouts, we (fans, writers, etc.) are not qualified to rate the play of many players other than the skill positions. When teams play well, all of a sudden their players become "stars" or known commodities. For example, look at all the Carolina Panthers that weren't on the list last year. Did they all of a sudden all become top 100 players? Of course not. I'm sure there were not four Carolina Panthers on the list year. In fact, it looks like there were just two Patriots (Seymour and Law) on last years list and we all know what the Pats did. I don't have access to the list from last year, but if it was compiled after week 1 of the NFL season, as this years list is, the Bills on the list would have included Bledsoe, Moulds, Spikes and Henry and maybe even Ruben Brown. All I'm saying is that these lists are based on the current conventional wisdom. They don't prove what teams are good. They reflect what teams people think are good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 I thought it was a team game. How many superstars were on the Giants superbowl teams? The Bucs Superbowl teams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyJay1234 Posted September 15, 2004 Author Share Posted September 15, 2004 I thought it was a team game. How many superstars were on the Giants superbowl teams? The Bucs Superbowl teams? 31791[/snapback] ARe you kidding?? Bucs- John Lynch, Derrick Brooks, Warren Sapp.... Should I go on. 10 guys from that team made the probowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyJay1234 Posted September 15, 2004 Author Share Posted September 15, 2004 Helllooooo....Patriots : 1 very good QB 1 very good DE 1 very good K 1 very good CB 1 good RB Bills : 1 very good WR 1 very good RB 2 very good DT's 1 very good LB 1 very good P Not much difference there...Maybe even an edge to Buff It's not all about star players, it's about team. Just ask the Saints, who have a large group of "very good" players. 31776[/snapback] Not much difference? Pats- 1 Excellent QB 1 Excellent Kicker- Probowl 1 Excellent CB- Considered best in the game 1 Excellent DE-Probowl 1 Excellent OLB- Vrabel 1 Excellent Safety-Probowl Bills 2 decent DTs- Neither Probowlers 1 above average WR- Can be Excellent when healty 2 not 1 very good LB- I am actually defending you here. A punter- Yep need one because our offense cannot score. This team sucks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyJay1234 Posted September 15, 2004 Author Share Posted September 15, 2004 The problem with this logic is that it is circular. Other than pro player personnel scouts, we (fans, writers, etc.) are not qualified to rate the play of many players other than the skill positions. When teams play well, all of a sudden their players become "stars" or known commodities. For example, look at all the Carolina Panthers that weren't on the list last year. Did they all of a sudden all become top 100 players? Of course not. I'm sure there were not four Carolina Panthers on the list year. In fact, it looks like there were just two Patriots (Seymour and Law) on last years list and we all know what the Pats did. I don't have access to the list from last year, but if it was compiled after week 1 of the NFL season, as this years list is, the Bills on the list would have included Bledsoe, Moulds, Spikes and Henry and maybe even Ruben Brown. All I'm saying is that these lists are based on the current conventional wisdom. They don't prove what teams are good. They reflect what teams people think are good. 31782[/snapback] Here is what I want you to do. Look at the list. Look at every player. Our best player is rightfully 52. 32 teams. Next- If you believe in the talent. Ask yourself this. After the 2nd round since 1999. Name 2 quality starters. You cannot. Jonas Jennings. Coy wire- Ahhh no. Then look at our drafting Name one stud since the 2001 draft? No one. Look at our team and we have no talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfladave Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Not much difference?Pats- 1 Excellent QB 1 Excellent Kicker- Probowl 1 Excellent CB- Considered best in the game 1 Excellent DE-Probowl 1 Excellent OLB- Vrabel 1 Excellent Safety-Probowl Bills 2 decent DTs- Neither Probowlers 1 above average WR- Can be Excellent when healty 2 not 1 very good LB- I am actually defending you here. A punter- Yep need one because our offense cannot score. This team sucks! 31819[/snapback] Indy I see you're not happy with the Bills organization right now, but damn to say we down right suck??? I cannot even guess what your feelings were durring those 2-14 seasons. All other things aside, does this have anything to do with the Bills dropping Sape to the practice squad? Don't forget I am one of the 8 members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyJay1234 Posted September 15, 2004 Author Share Posted September 15, 2004 The problem with this logic is that it is circular. Other than pro player personnel scouts, we (fans, writers, etc.) are not qualified to rate the play of many players other than the skill positions. When teams play well, all of a sudden their players become "stars" or known commodities. For example, look at all the Carolina Panthers that weren't on the list last year. Did they all of a sudden all become top 100 players? Of course not. I'm sure there were not four Carolina Panthers on the list year. In fact, it looks like there were just two Patriots (Seymour and Law) on last years list and we all know what the Pats did. I don't have access to the list from last year, but if it was compiled after week 1 of the NFL season, as this years list is, the Bills on the list would have included Bledsoe, Moulds, Spikes and Henry and maybe even Ruben Brown. All I'm saying is that these lists are based on the current conventional wisdom. They don't prove what teams are good. They reflect what teams people think are good. 31782[/snapback] Giants 1990 Top 100 players William Roberts- O- Line Bart Oates- O- Line E- Howard- D line LT Pepper Johnson- LB Reyna Thompson- CB These are members of the Probowl that year. Does not include Otis Anderson Marc Bavaro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyJay1234 Posted September 15, 2004 Author Share Posted September 15, 2004 Indy I see you're not happy with the Bills organization right now, but damn to say we down right suck??? I cannot even guess what your feelings were durring those 2-14 seasons. All other things aside, does this have anything to do with the Bills dropping Sape to the practice squad? Don't forget I am one of the 8 members. 31830[/snapback] Suck is too strong. I am just so mad about how we have drafted. Pissed. We have no game breakers. No players. No one that people get excitted about. No one to look to for a play. I love the Bills. Let their be no question about that. I am pissed. This really has nothing to do with the loss. I am just sick of looking at the bright side and the spin. Sick of it! Thanks for the support on the fan club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyJay1234 Posted September 15, 2004 Author Share Posted September 15, 2004 Suck is too strong. I am just so mad about how we have drafted. Pissed. We have no game breakers. No players. No one that people get excitted about. No one to look to for a play. I love the Bills. Let their be no question about that. I am pissed. This really has nothing to do with the loss. I am just sick of looking at the bright side and the spin. Sick of it! Thanks for the support on the fan club. 31838[/snapback] I really am calling for Modrak head right now. Seriously review the drafts of the TD years and of the Butlers last years. Horrible. Every year I see a draft grade. B grade. Look at them now. F's The draft ends at round 2 for us. Seriously. I could not do worse. 25 picks after round 2 in 4 years. 1 starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Nate Clements, Takeo Spikes, Eric Moulds, Travis Henry, Lawyer Milloy, Aaron Schobel, Sam Adams, Pat Williams, London Fletcher could all be considered top 100 players in the NFL. I dont give a damn what some sportswriter thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyJay1234 Posted September 15, 2004 Author Share Posted September 15, 2004 Nate Clements, Takeo Spikes, Eric Moulds, Travis Henry, Lawyer Milloy, Aaron Schobel, Sam Adams, Pat Williams, London Fletcher could all be considered top 100 players in the NFL. I dont give a damn what some sportswriter thinks. 31847[/snapback] That is loyalty talking. That is your blind love for this team. Nate Clements over who on this list? Lawyer over who on this list? Moulds over who on this list? Maybe 2-3 years ago. Pat Williams over who on this list? Schobel- Now that is funny. Spikes is on the list as is Henry. Fletcher just missed out. I think those are fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Nate Clements over who on this list?Lawyer over who on this list? Moulds over who on this list? Maybe 2-3 years ago. Pat Williams over who on this list? Schobel- Now that is funny. Spikes is on the list as is Henry. Fletcher just missed out. I think those are fair. I would most definately take Nate Clements over Sam Madison. I would rather have Lawyer Milloy then Donovan Darius but they are comprable Moulds over Derrick Mason or Steve Smith. Moulds is top 5 WRs in football. Not his fault his QB sucks and his oline cant pass block. Schobel over Andre Carter. Thats funny? Really? Check the stats Pat Williams and Sam Adams I would take over Warren Sapp. Pat and Sam are the best pair of DTs in the league. Even better then Buckner and Jenkins in Carolina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyJay1234 Posted September 15, 2004 Author Share Posted September 15, 2004 I would most definately take Nate Clements over Sam Madison.I would rather have Lawyer Milloy then Donovan Darius but they are comprable Moulds over Derrick Mason or Steve Smith. Moulds is top 5 WRs in football. Not his fault his QB sucks and his oline cant pass block. Schobel over Andre Carter. Thats funny? Really? Check the stats Pat Williams and Sam Adams I would take over Warren Sapp. Pat and Sam are the best pair of DTs in the league. Even better then Buckner and Jenkins in Carolina. 31861[/snapback] We will see at the end of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Colts -----Manning, Harrison, Vanderjagt , Freeney (a stretch for Freeney)Ravens ---Ray Lewis, Jamal Lewis, Ogden, Reed, maybe Boulware Vikings ---Moss, Culpepper, Birk, Chavous Packers --Green, Rivera, Favre Titans -----McNair, Hopkins, Bulluck Pats -------Law, Viniteri, maybe McGinest Chiefs -----Holmes, Shields, maybe Gonzalez Panthers --Jenkins, Sauerbrun, maybe Davis Eagles -----McNabb, Owens Seattle ----Alexander, maybe Jones, I just don't see that many top 5 guys on their teams. I see 1 team with 5, 2 teams with 4, 5 teams with 3 and 2 teams with 2 (if you count the maybes). My count for the Bills --Mooreman, Spikes, you might be able to make a case for Fletcher or Moulds and of course Bledsoe(just kidding). JMHO but only 2 of your teams meet the criteria of 4-5 top 5 guys in the league. edit to Miami ---Taylor, Thomas, Surtain 31529[/snapback] Forget that pole, these guys are also very good: Pats: Seymour, Brady, Tenn: Derrick Mason, Samari Rolle Chiefs: Willie Roaf Eagles: Brian Dawkins, David Akers, Jevon Kearse Bottom line is that this thread about the Bill's lack of playmakers and blue chip players is 100% accurate. Over the last decade management of this team has either traded away first round picks or flat out bungled them with the likes of Mike Williams and Erik Flowers. When was the last time we made a draft pick like Sam Cowart? It has been a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyJay1234 Posted September 15, 2004 Author Share Posted September 15, 2004 We will see at the end of the year. 31863[/snapback] Just to be clear on what I mean. Last year they blamed the losses on the coaching. That has been fixed right? You can only blame coaching so long. Then you have to look at the talent. 5 years since our last winning season 10 years since we won our last playoff game. This is not a very good team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 I didnt blame last years losing on coaching. Gilbride sucked and was a huge factor but Williams was a decent coach IMO. I blame last years losing on Drew mostly. He was just awful last year. He played great week 1 this year though and hopefully he has corrected his problems. Our game plan was solid at Jacksonville. Smashmouth football and a good defense wins. I would not give up on this team just yet-they will get better as the season goes on and there is alot of talent IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyJay1234 Posted September 15, 2004 Author Share Posted September 15, 2004 I didnt blame last years losing on coaching. Gilbride sucked and was a huge factor but Williams was a decent coach IMO. I blame last years losing on Drew mostly. He was just awful last year. He played great week 1 this year though and hopefully he has corrected his problems. Our game plan was solid at Jacksonville. Smashmouth football and a good defense wins. I would not give up on this team just yet-they will get better as the season goes on and there is alot of talent IMO. 31871[/snapback] Man, I wish you were right. We have a collection of nice players. With a few stars on both sides of the ball this would be a great team. We over value our nice players and dream them into stars. I like Schobel, Clements, Milloy, Adams, Williams. I think they are nice players. Quality. Not stars. Really do this. Look at our draft from 2000-Present. Then pick any other team. Let me know your thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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