Daily Media Stupidity

[SilverNRed]

David Horsey won the 2003 Pulitzer Prize for editorial cartooning thanks to work like this:

 

LINK

 

Quick, give the man another award!

 

(I had no idea that our military actually labeled rooms "Torture Room 4" etc. but then again I'm not an award winning cartoonist.)

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

David Horsey won the 2003 Pulitzer Prize for editorial cartooning thanks to work like this:

 

LINK

 

Quick, give the man another award!

 

(I had no idea that our military actually labeled rooms "Torture Room 4" etc. but then again I'm not an award winning cartoonist.)

343505[/snapback]

 

Actually, his Pulitzer-winning stuff is pretty damned good. Since, though, it seems he's less concerned with pointing out the absurdity of our culture and politics, and more concerned with pointing out the absurdity of that half our culture and politics he disagrees with.

[Pac_Man]

Actually, his Pulitzer-winning stuff is pretty damned good.  Since, though, it seems he's less concerned with pointing out the absurdity of our culture and politics, and more concerned with pointing out the absurdity of that half our culture and politics he disagrees with.

343517[/snapback]

The cartoon I saw didn't point out the absurdity of anything. Or at least, not anything real. It accused American interregators of torturing a prisoner to death. A blatant lie.

[TheMadCap]

The cartoon I saw didn't point out the absurdity of anything. Or at least, not anything real. It accused American interregators of torturing a prisoner to death. A blatant lie.

343810[/snapback]

 

Some of his cartoons are pretty funny, others, that one included are just rubbish...

[Pac_Man]

Some of his cartoons are pretty funny, others, that one included are just rubbish...

343816[/snapback]

Maybe you're right. But once I catch someone engaging in one blatant lie (such as this cartoon) I become much more open to the idea that they may be engaging in other lies as well; in areas where it's harder to hold them accountable.

[Britbillsfan]

The cartoon I saw didn't point out the absurdity of anything. Or at least, not anything real. It accused American interregators of torturing a prisoner to death. A blatant lie.

343810[/snapback]

So the reports that 7 members of the intelligence unit handling the interrogations have been charged and that the official report into the interrogations indicated that Dilawar (the unfortunate taxi driver with no terrorist connections who died in custody) was beaten and hung from th ceiling by a chain for four days were wrong? And that a further 21 personnel were under investigation in the deaths of Dilawar and Habibullah and could face charges was also incorrect?

[philburger1]

So the reports that 7 members of the intelligence unit handling the interrogations have been charged and that the official report into the interrogations indicated that Dilawar (the unfortunate taxi driver with no terrorist connections who died in custody) was beaten and hung from th ceiling by a chain for four days were wrong? And that a further 21 personnel were under investigation in the deaths of Dilawar and Habibullah and could face charges was also incorrect?

343832[/snapback]

 

Yes, let's all cry for people who blow up a school bus or hijack and crash a plane.

Boohoo!

[Pac_Man]

So the reports that 7 members of the intelligence unit handling the interrogations have been charged and that the official report into the interrogations indicated that Dilawar (the unfortunate taxi driver with no terrorist connections who died in custody) was beaten and hung from th ceiling by a chain for four days were wrong? And that a further 21 personnel were under investigation in the deaths of Dilawar and Habibullah and could face charges was also incorrect?

343832[/snapback]

 

I had not heard of these reports. If you have a link, I would appreciate it.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

The cartoon I saw didn't point out the absurdity of anything. Or at least, not anything real. It accused American interregators of torturing a prisoner to death. A blatant lie.

343810[/snapback]

 

Oh, shut up, dumbass.

[Pac_Man]

Oh, shut up, dumbass.

343874[/snapback]

A comment like this takes a lot of nerve, considering the number of blatant errors you made about the Constitution, which I pointed out. For crying out loud, you made those errors just a few hours ago.

 

You:

The Constitution outlines government powers, not civil rights.

Ever hear of freedom of speech, or freedom of religion, or freedom of the press? They're all mentioned in the Constitution and its amendments. You made several other erroneous statements about the Constution--all while calling me an idiot. Anyone who wants to see this discussion can go here: http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?act=S...=60#entry343763

 

I realize not everyone is as smart as me, and that's fine. Where I have a problem is when people who aren't as smart as me--and let's face it, Monkey, you clearly fall into that category--start calling me an idiot. Perhaps you chose your name because your preferred debate style is to throw a lot of . . . feces and see what sticks.

[philburger1]

David Horsey won the 2003 Pulitzer Prize for editorial cartooning thanks to work like this:

 

LINK

 

Quick, give the man another award!

 

(I had no idea that our military actually labeled rooms "Torture Room 4" etc. but then again I'm not an award winning cartoonist.)

343505[/snapback]

 

 

I'd like to see the cartoons he did that show reporters and construction workers getting their heads cut off with a large knife, aid workers getting shot in back of the head, and people tossed off buildings with their arms and legs tied. And we know it happened, those darling islamo-terrorists video taped it for their viewing pleasure!

 

And ass-face the cartoon man thinks the US Army is the gold standard in the world for torture?

F**K him. And his drawing sucks too, I could do better when I was 10 years old.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

A comment like this takes a lot of nerve, considering the number of blatant errors you made about the Constitution, which I pointed out. For crying out loud, you made those errors just a few hours ago.

 

You:

 

Ever hear of freedom of speech, or freedom of religion, or freedom of the press? They're all mentioned in the Constitution and its amendments. You made several other erroneous statements about the Constution--all while calling me an idiot. Anyone who wants to see this discussion can go here: http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?act=S...=60#entry343763

 

I realize not everyone is as smart as me, and that's fine. Where I have a problem is when people who aren't as smart as me--and let's face it, Monkey, you clearly fall into that category--start calling me an idiot. Perhaps you chose your name because your preferred debate style is to throw a lot of . . .  feces and see what sticks.

343881[/snapback]

 

Let me be more clear: the Constitution specifically defines the boundaries beyond which the government may not go. For example, the government may NOT infringe on the freedom of speech of the populace.

 

What it does NOT do, contrary to your inimitably dense belief, is define the rules under which the populace may live. We are not entitled to free speech because the Constitution grants it, the government is forbidden to interfere with our speech because the Constitution denies it.

 

Jesus Christ, go back to high school and take a civics class, you numbskull.

[Pac_Man]

Let me be more clear: the Constitution specifically defines the boundaries beyond which the government may not go.  For example, the government may NOT infringe on the freedom of speech of the populace.

 

What it does NOT do, contrary to your inimitably dense belief, is define the rules under which the populace may live.  We are not entitled to free speech because the Constitution grants it, the government is forbidden to interfere with our speech because the Constitution denies it. 

 

Jesus Christ, go back to high school and take a civics class, you numbskull.

343902[/snapback]

You actually managed to get something about the Constitution right for once. As usual, your interpretation of my posts is incorrect, but going one for two is pretty good--at least for you.

[TheMadCap]

sigh....another thread down the tubes...

[Pac_Man]

sigh....another thread down the tubes...

343935[/snapback]

It's partly my fault for responding to Monkey's trolling. Sorry about that.

[Alaska Darin]

It's partly my fault for responding to Monkey's trolling. Sorry about that.

343949[/snapback]

Well Pacman has always had a rivalry with Donkey Kong. You probably just can't help yourself.

[Pac_Man]

Well Pacman has always had a rivalry with Donkey Kong.  You probably just can't help yourself.

343986[/snapback]

lol

[Adam]

The cartoon I saw didn't point out the absurdity of anything. Or at least, not anything real. It accused American interregators of torturing a prisoner to death. A blatant lie.

343810[/snapback]

 

I havent seen it, but could it be parodying a certain view of what happened.......a wrong view?

[Pac_Man]

I havent seen it, but could it be parodying a certain view of what happened.......a wrong view?

344014[/snapback]

You can see the cartoon for yourself by using the link in the first post of the thread.

[Adam]

You can see the cartoon for yourself by using the link in the first post of the thread.

344015[/snapback]

 

Just saw it- it looks to me as if they are mocking Newsweek's portrayal, although either way, it is in poor taste. The media must be taught that they are accountable for their actions, because they dont think they are

[Pac_Man]

Just saw it- it looks to me as if they are mocking Newsweek's portrayal, although either way, it is in poor taste. The media must be taught that they are accountable for their actions, because they dont think they are

344023[/snapback]

I saw it as an accusation against our interregators--that they are guilty of killing people through torture.

[Britbillsfan]

I had not heard of these reports. If you have a link, I would appreciate it.

343844[/snapback]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4570631.stm

 

The bit from Chained to the Ceiling goes into some detail about the 2000 page report. Also that one of the dead was believed by most of the interrogators to be a poor innocent sap that was merely in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

Torture is occuring, it is wrong, and innocents are being caught up in it. And some people are dying (8 deaths in custody in Afghanistan alone that have been admitted to by the US, I would imagine that there would be more elsewhere).

 

The idea of the cartoon (IMO) was to highlight that bad things that should not happen are happening, and was not meant to be funny.

[Britbillsfan]

Yes, let's all cry for people who blow up a school bus or hijack and crash a plane.

Boohoo!

343837[/snapback]

Or how about a taxi driver who was just returning from a fare and passed by when an attack took place. Obviously he deserved the 4+ days of being tortured, beaten and then left to die without medical attention. Those scum taxi drivers deserve everything they get. And most his interrogators thought he was innocent too.

 

I do not really give a flying f**k about the guilty, but it is becoming increasingly clear that abuses are occuring, that they are more widespread than the Abu Graib incident, murder by torture is occuring and some of those dead are innocent of anything other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time or being pointed out as a terrorist due to faulty intelligence (some of which comes from tortured subjects who would say anything to get the torture to stop).

 

An in case you are wondering I am aware that abuses are occuring amongst British forces too, I am in favour of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan but both Bush and Blair both overstated their reasons for going to war in the former case (to put it mildly). I also see the probelms as fairly widespread but neither see it as a problem (at the moment) that is indicative of the conduct of the vast majority of the military in both places but if action is not seen to be taken soon the problems in Iraq at the moment will seem like nothing compared to what will occur in the not too distant future.

[RkFast]

sigh....another thread down the tubes...

343935[/snapback]

 

Thats PPP these days with its backwards laaahjik.

 

Where regular posters come to talk politics in good faith, even with an self-admitted novice knowledge of the subject are looked at as complete morons, but an old !@#$ who fashions himself as a sh---throwing primate and whose main contribution is whining about how "smart" he is while throwing high-school level insults at the afformentioned contributors is looked at as a forum elite. And even encouraged by the mods.

[KRC]

And even encouraged by the mods.

344090[/snapback]

 

bull sh--. Enjoy your vacation.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4570631.stm

 

The bit from Chained to the Ceiling goes into some detail about the 2000 page report. Also that one of the dead was believed by most of the interrogators to be a poor innocent sap that was merely in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

Torture is occuring, it is wrong, and innocents are being caught up in it. And some people are dying (8 deaths in custody in Afghanistan alone that have been admitted to by the US, I would imagine that there would be more elsewhere).

 

The idea of the cartoon (IMO) was to highlight that bad things that should not happen are happening, and was not meant to be funny.

344069[/snapback]

 

If it takes the torture of one to save the liives of hundreds, is it worth it?

[philburger1]

Or how about a taxi driver who was just returning from a fare and passed by when an attack took place. Obviously he deserved the 4+ days of being tortured, beaten and then left to die without medical attention. Those scum taxi drivers deserve everything they get. And most his interrogators thought he was innocent too.

 

I do not really give a flying f**k about the guilty, but it is becoming increasingly clear that abuses are occuring, that they are more widespread than the Abu Graib incident, murder by torture is occuring and some of those dead are innocent of anything other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time or being pointed out as a terrorist due to faulty intelligence (some of which comes from tortured subjects who would say anything to get the torture to stop).

 

An in case you are wondering I am aware that abuses are occuring amongst British forces too, I am in favour of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan but both Bush and Blair both overstated their reasons for going to war in the former case (to put it mildly). I also see the probelms as fairly widespread but neither see it as a problem (at the moment) that is indicative of the conduct of the vast majority of the military in both places but if action is not seen to be taken soon the problems in Iraq at the moment will seem like nothing compared to what will occur in the not too distant future.

344071[/snapback]

 

Right, the US army is far worse than the Islamic Terrorists. All they do is cut the head of construction workers who are there to rebuild the country. And then people in Iraq cry that the services are not being fixed quick enough. Let's not forgot the shooting of charity workers in the back of their heads. Where are the cartoons about those actions?

[Thurman's Helmet]

Right, the US army is far worse than the Islamic Terrorists. All they do is cut the head of construction workers who are there to rebuild the country. And then people in Iraq cry that the services are not being fixed quick enough. Let's not forgot the shooting of charity workers in the back of their heads. Where are the cartoons about those actions?

344144[/snapback]

 

 

Islamic "Freedom fighters" - GOOD

 

US Military - BAD

 

Bush< Hitler

 

Anyone not left of Chomsky and Lenin - Nazis

[Adam]

I saw it as an accusation against our interregators--that they are guilty of killing people through torture.

344030[/snapback]

 

after looking at their other cartoons, I agree with you. Prolly a bunch of preschoolers doing that garbage

[Pac_Man]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4570631.stm

 

The bit from Chained to the Ceiling goes into some detail about the 2000 page report. Also that one of the dead was believed by most of the interrogators to be a poor innocent sap that was merely in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

Torture is occuring, it is wrong, and innocents are being caught up in it. And some people are dying (8 deaths in custody in Afghanistan alone that have been admitted to by the US, I would imagine that there would be more elsewhere).

 

The idea of the cartoon (IMO) was to highlight that bad things that should not happen are happening, and was not meant to be funny.

344069[/snapback]

Given that there is a report about the killing of two Afghans in custody, there was more credibility to the cartoon's accusation than I'd realized. I apologize for my words about the cartoon's author.

[Britbillsfan]

If it takes the torture of one to save the liives of hundreds, is it worth it?

344117[/snapback]

Short answer is No, ultimately, because torturing people, even the right people, will in the end cause more innocent deaths in the long term.

 

Consider that torture is efficient in getting the subject to say anything that he thinks will make the torture stop rather than any real facts, it is a very inaccurate way of gaining real intelligence, even from known bad guys the intel can prove to be inaccurate in the long run and always will need substantive supporting evidence.

 

And since the now widespread use of torture (since the US appears to be looking the other way more and more countries with REALLY bad records are taking advantage of the situation by basically saying that - well you are doing it, why can we not?) is only going to increase the amount of hate and vitriol towards the US (since the US is supposed to lead the way in human rights) then there is a case in saying that the use of torture will end up causing a lot more deaths of innocents than it saves.

 

Like I said I do not care about the terrorist scum but it certainly appears this is getting to be a provocation to many, making them more likely to attack America / the west rather than being of any real help to the longer term war on terror.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Consider that torture is efficient in getting the subject to say anything that he thinks will make the torture stop rather than any real facts it is a very inaccurate way of gaining real intelligence, even from known bad guys the intel can prove to be inaccurate in the long run and always will need substantive supporting evidence.

 

And since the now widespread use of torture (since the US appears to be looking the other way more and more countries with REALLY bad records are taking advantage of the situation by basically saying that - well you are doing it, why can we not?) is only going to increase the amount of hate and vitriol towards the US (since the US is supposed to lead the way in human rights) then there is a case in saying that the use of torture will end up causing a lot more deaths of innocents than it saves.

 

Like I said I do not care about the terrorist scum but it certainly appears this is getting to be a provocation to many, making them more likely to attack America / the west rather than being of any real help to the longer term war on terror.

344428[/snapback]

 

You may be right. But, and this is a huge point, what incentive do these criminals and murderers have to talk without coercion?

[Britbillsfan]

Given that there is a report about the killing of two Afghans in custody, there was more credibility to the cartoon's accusation than I'd realized. I apologize for my words about the cartoon's author.

344277[/snapback]

Which is a fair statement. Unfortunately a lot of media are obsessed with the dramatic and the trivial and tend not to highlight underlying problems (the US press in its chase for ratings has never been that good) then it is no surprise that important stuff like this needs a cartoonist (for Pete's sake!) to get some attention to it.

 

What is scarey, to me, is the belief in some quarters that torture, long term, can solve anything. And the refusal to think that US personel can do this is astounding, even with Abu Ghraib. The mere size of the US (or even the much smaller UK) military means there are going to be individuals in it whos' character is, shall we say, less than ideal, despite the fact that I believe that the vast majority of servicemen and women are decent people who have to deal with some pretty awful things in their chosen career and deserve the utmost respect.

[Ghost of BiB]

Does anyone consider sensory deprivation followed by the use of sodium pentathol to be torture? Or a technique?

 

New scenario. You are the father of a 14 year old girl. She turns up missing. You suspect somebody. On him is a videotape showing him sodomizing her, with four other guys in the background you don't recognize. You know he knows them, and also exactly where she is.

 

But he won't tell...

[Gavin in Va Beach]

Does anyone consider sensory deprivation followed by the use of sodium pentathol to be torture? Or a technique?

 

New scenario. You are the father of a 14 year old girl. She turns up missing. You suspect somebody. On him is a videotape showing him sodomizing her, with four other guys in the background you don't recognize. You know he knows them, and also exactly where she is.

 

But he won't tell...

344466[/snapback]

 

 

If I may quote Marcellus Wallace, I'd "go midieval on his ass". He'd tell or would soon be contemplating life as a puddle...

[Ghost of BiB]

If I may quote Marcellus Wallace, I'd "go midieval on his ass". He'd tell or would soon be contemplating life as a puddle...

344470[/snapback]

 

Well, it should be pretty easy to extrapolate from that. You have in custody a fellow that you know has full operational knowledge of an upcoming mass casualty terror attack.

 

He won't tell.

[Campy]

New scenario. You are the father of a 14 year old girl. She turns up missing. You suspect somebody. On him is a videotape showing him sodomizing her, with four other guys in the background you don't recognize. You know he knows them, and also exactly where she is.

 

But he won't tell...

344466[/snapback]

 

IMO, your scenario is a perfect example of why interrogation should be done by those devoid of an intense and personal interest in the case/suspect/interrogation. Due to my interpretation of God's will, I am against the death penalty. Does this mean that I wouldn't want to shoot someone who (God forbid) raped or killed my wife? Hell no. But that's why I shouldn't/wouldn't be involved, other than just being granted the opportunity to speak during sentencing.

[Pac_Man]

Which is a fair statement. Unfortunately a lot of media are obsessed with the dramatic and the trivial and tend not to highlight underlying problems (the US press in its chase for ratings has never been that good) then it is no surprise that important stuff like this needs a cartoonist (for Pete's sake!) to get some attention to it.

 

What is scarey, to me, is the belief in some quarters that torture, long term, can solve anything. And the refusal to think that US personel can do this is astounding, even with Abu Ghraib. The mere size of the US (or even the much smaller UK) military means there are going to be individuals in it whos' character is, shall we say, less than ideal, despite the fact that I believe that the vast majority of servicemen and women are decent people who have to deal with some pretty awful things in their chosen career and deserve the utmost respect.

344446[/snapback]

You are right about the long-term disadvantages of torture. Unfortunately, torture is nothing new for the U.S. military. Torture and the threat of torture were used on various prisoners to extort confessions during and after WWII.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

IMO, your scenario is a perfect example of why interrogation should be done by those devoid of an intense and personal interest in the case/suspect/interrogation.  Due to my interpretation of God's will, I am against the death penalty.  Does this mean that I wouldn't want to shoot someone who (God forbid) raped or killed my wife?  Hell no.  But that's why I shouldn't/wouldn't be involved, other than just being granted the opportunity to speak during sentencing.

344476[/snapback]

 

And who would this Christ-like person be?

 

I would be suspicious of anyone who interrogated a terrorist that wasn't a representative of the US government.

 

Sodium Penethol is hardly torture in the classic sense.

[Ghost of BiB]

IMO, your scenario is a perfect example of why interrogation should be done by those devoid of an intense and personal interest in the case/suspect/interrogation.  Due to my interpretation of God's will, I am against the death penalty.  Does this mean that I wouldn't want to shoot someone who (God forbid) raped or killed my wife?  Hell no.  But that's why I shouldn't/wouldn't be involved, other than just being granted the opportunity to speak during sentencing.

344476[/snapback]

 

The point, Chris-is not that-it's having a finite period of time to prevent something bad from happening. From what I gather, many people here would rather see the Sears tower blow up and kill a few thousand people rather than accept the fact that it can be prevented by using some fairly forceful measures.

 

I'm frankly pretty disgusted that there are so many here, and elsewhere who are firmly convinced it is better to allow their own family, friends and neighbors die in the impression that whatever else happens, we have to show the world how nice we all are. that, after all is what is truly important.

 

Me, I'll be charging the cattle prod if you need me for anything.