Shaw66 Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said: Living in Houston I , unfortunately watched a lot, lot of David Carr. His O Line was a joke and he often had no shot at success at all, The physical and mental toll on the man had to be enormous. Yes I understand the macho he isn't tough enough to play in the NFL crap but there are limits to the amount of punishment a man can take without having an impact. Listen to Aikman's (who you used as an example in your prior post) interviews sometimes about after his disastrous first year, he said he was close to quitting football. Is David Carr an extreme example, probably hwe is just the most painfully obvious, are their other "David Carr's" out these, that never had the chance to succeed, probably we just dont know who could have succeeded and didnt. Forget all the "tough guy non-snese, what about the injury risk, the concussions, those are REAL concerns and I dont care how "tough" you are mentally. You told me to ask Aaron Williams , why dont you ask him why he stopped playing at the age of 26. Ask Brady, yeah great analogy there. David Carr took more hits in his rookie year than Brady has taken in his entire career. Brady, Mr Tough guy in the NFL that often runs ways from players after they intercept his balls. Look, I'm not saying David Carr didn't take a beating. You saw it, I didn't. The question isn't whether he took a beating, the question is whether any quarterback who would have been a true franchise QB failed to become a franchise QB because he started in the NFL sooner than was good for him. There is no evidence that David Carr would have been a franchise QB. He is just another QB drafted in the first round who didn't make it. There are a lot of those guys. Now, your theory may be that he was so brutalized in his first season starting that he never recovered. Well, there's no evidence of that. What you're saying is that he was suffering from a form of post-traumatic stress disorder, that somehow his psyche was so damaged that after his first year he couldn't reach his potential. If that's true, why was he in the NFL for another TEN years. Wouldn't the coaches have given up on him sometime before then? Leinart didn't last 10 years. Vince Young didn't last 10 years. Losman didn't. Edwards didn't. The NFL doesn't keep guys around because the NFL feels sorry for them. In his rookie season, David Carr led the league in sacks. He also led the league in sacks in his third year and again in his fourth year. If he had been beaten silly in his first season, wouldn't you think by his third season he would have figured out how to throw the ball away? Or his fourth season? Or are you going to say that he was so emotionally damaged by then that he just couldn't do it? NO BILLS QB WOULD SURVIVE THIS BOARD LEADING THE LEAGUE IN SACKS THREE OUT OF FOUR SEASONS. Fine, if that's what you want to believe, but from where I sit it looks to me like David Carr is just like EJ Manuel - he couldn't figure out how to play QB in the NFL. There are dozens and dozens of guys like that. But let's assume you're correct. David Carr would have been a Hall of Fame QB but for the fact that he started as a rookie. Give us another example, a guy we all could agree was likely to be a franchise QB and had his career irrevocably derailed because he started too early. If Carr is the best example, then I see no reason to be worried that Allen will be ruined by starting as a rookie. Edited June 19, 2018 by Shaw66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Shaw66 said: Look, I'm not saying David Carr didn't take a beating. You saw it, I didn't. The question isn't whether he took a beating, the question is whether any quarterback who would have been a true franchise QB failed to become a franchise QB because he started in the NFL sooner than was good for him. There is no evidence that David Carr would have been a franchise QB. He is just another QB drafted in the first round who didn't make it. There are a lot of those guys. Now, your theory may be that he was so brutalized in his first season starting that he never recovered. Well, there's no evidence of that. What you're saying is that he was suffering from a form of post-traumatic stress disorder, that somehow his psyche was so damaged that after his first year he couldn't reach his potential. If that's true, why was he in the NFL for another TEN years. Wouldn't the coaches have given up on him sometime before then? Leinart didn't last 10 years. Vince Young didn't last 10 years. Losman didn't. Edwards didn't. The NFL doesn't keep guys around because the NFL feels sorry for them. In his rookie season, David Carr led the league in sacks. He also led the league in sacks in his third year and again in his fourth year. If he had been beaten silly in his first season, wouldn't you think by his third season he would have figured out how to throw the ball away? Or his fourth season? Or are you going to say that he was so emotionally damaged by then that he just couldn't do it? NO BILLS QB WOULD SURVIVE THIS BOARD LEADING THE LEAGUE IN SACKS THREE OUT OF FOUR SEASONS. Fine, if that's what you want to believe, but from where I sit it looks to me like David Carr is just like EJ Manuel - he couldn't figure out how to play QB in the NFL. There are dozens and dozens of guys like that. But let's assume you're correct. David Carr would have been a Hall of Fame QB but for the fact that he started as a rookie. Give us another example, a guy we all could agree was likely to be a franchise QB and had his career irrevocably derailed because he started too early. If Carr is the best example, then I see no reason to be worried that Allen will be ruined by starting as a rookie. 1) You state there is no "evidence" Carr would have been a franchise QB, the you ask for other examples, any example I bring you can state the same thing, there is no "evidence" so what is the point. Asking me to prove a negative. 2) I never stated or even intimated Carr would have been a HOFer but if you want to exaggerate my comments to help "prove" your point, carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said: 1) You state there is no "evidence" Carr would have been a franchise QB, the you ask for other examples, any example I bring you can state the same thing, there is no "evidence" so what is the point. Asking me to prove a negative. 2) I never stated or even intimated Carr would have been a HOFer but if you want to exaggerate my comments to help "prove" your point, carry on. Yes, I know I'm asking someone to prove something that's impossible. Not necessarily you, because you really weren't claiming that Carr would have been one thing or another. You were just saying he took a beating and that could explain a lot. I agree, it could. And I didn't say HOFer, intentionally. Oh, yes, I see that I did. But only in an assumption. Throughout what I wrote I intentional referred to franchise QB as the standard, which I think is less than a HOFer. Whatever, that isn't the point. I really wanted people to get back to the point, which is this notion that Allen shouldn't start because he needs to be protected. I don't get it. At best, people have given one example of a guy who's career MIGHT have been ruined by starting too early. As I've said, I'm not sure it's true in Carr's cased, but whether it's true or not I don't hear any other QB from the past 20 years even being nominated. That are a lot of stars who survived ugly first seasons, and there is one example - Carr - who MIGHT have been a star but for his first season. Based on that evidence, I don't see why Allen should sit if he's the best QB the Bills have. Edited June 19, 2018 by Shaw66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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