Holcomb looks like a very smart guy!

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

I passed on posting this notion because it was clear that the Bills had put a laot of the fans marbles in the Losman basket and scared or not if I was gonna root for my Bills to dominate this meant rooting for JP to dominate.

 

I think JP has shown some great tools and though I do not expect any first time starter to dominate and he will have to go through a learning curve, I feel so good about our D (statististically top 5+ 2 years in a row) and our ST (#1 in the league under April or pretty close to it) that I think that the good news is that all JP needs to do is not make mistakes and play average to pull off the same trick RoboQB pulled off in Pitts last year. However, JP is just a youngster with potential and potential means you haven't done anything real yet.

 

Holcomb is a smart athlete because he is saying all the right things about looking forward to backing up and mentoring Losman, but he has really moved himself up in a big way coming from a Cleveland squad which is troubled at best, going into the first year with it HC, is and has been hamstrung by the accelerated cap hits fpr having to cut Couch, Garcia and likely additional draft errors, and instead Holcimb comes to a Bills team ready to make a move even if the QB doesn't lead the way.

 

I think JP will be the real deal, but this is as much hope as it is think because he is such a youngster. Holcomb is such an improvement over what Matthews promised as #2 it isn't even funny. I think that few players are in as good a position as Holcomb in terms of having a reasonable chance (though not the first chance) at playing QB for a reasonable team.

 

I really am impressed not only with his record of past productivity as a #2, but with him saying all the right things to avoid a QB controversy but if called upon he is poised to gain maximum advantage if JP proves not to be as productive as I think he can be and ends up riding the pines as many youngsters do in this league.

[IDBillzFan]

I agree with this assessment, but the pending issue becomes "How long do you let Losman fail before you put him on the bench for Holcomb?" Clearly JP has a massive learning curve in front of him, and while he talks the talk (for a rook, anyway) he will need to put some Ws on the board or the natives will get restless.

 

Restless natives means empty seats, and empty seats don't help anyone.

 

And keep in mind, I'm not talking about how long the fans will wait. I'm talking about MM and TD and company. If we go 0-4, do you sit him down? 0-5? One thing is for certain, if we go 0-4, it won't be because of the D or STs.

 

Holcomb should be a serviceable backup, but dammit, we need JP to produce early and often. Forget the fact that we need to get early wins on the board if we're going to have a chance down the stretch...we also need JP to show he can be and will be the future of this team. Heaven help us if he's not.

[Corp000085]

LA, you bring up an intersting point about being 0-4... Last year, this team was 0-4 and stuck with bledsoe. I guess the only way to find out their true intentions is for the bills to go 0-4 again next year. First of all, i do not see the team going 0-4 again. They learned the hard way last year. However, i do see MM as a really good coach to the entire team. He will not hesitate to pull losman if there's trouble. Holcomb is a much more viable option than matthews was last year. I just hope that the gameplan is set for a power running, timely passing gameplan so that JP can succeed and get a few W's in the process.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

I think there were a lot of factors which led to the Bills braintrust being solidly behind starting Bledsoe even after an 0-4 start and the same would be true for JP if this misfortune falls upon us again.

 

Among the reasons for sticking with Bledsoe were:

 

1. He was still the Bills best option for winning games unless you had some psychotic belief in Matthews or psychotic hatred for Bledsoe.

 

2. TD and the Bills had just stupidly over-invested in Bledsoe restructuring and resigning him after a putrid 03 and egos were on the line.

 

3. Bledsoe was not the sole or even the leading cause of the 0-4 start and simply changing QBs (particularly to Matthews) was not likely at all to reverse the Bills fortunes.

 

4. MM believed in his approach and his choices and stuck with them feeling that the teams results would turn around if they stuck with his approach.

 

There were probably other reasons of import, but the lesson to take for consideration of the leash on JP is that were the Bills to get off to a horrible start. a lot depends on how this happens. If the results occur because of Losman errors he is more likely to get benchhed. However, if we lose because of a last minute opponent drive when JP left the field with a lead, even though one could fault the QB for not leading the team to a 30 point lead so an aooponent could not pull off an upset like the Jags did in Buffalo last season JP will be stuck with.

[Bill from NYC]

I think there were a lot of factors which led to the Bills braintrust being solidly behind starting Bledsoe even after an 0-4 start and the same would be true for JP if this misfortune falls upon us again.

 

Among the reasons for sticking with Bledsoe were:

 

1. He was still the Bills best option for winning games unless you had some psychotic belief in Matthews or psychotic hatred for Bledsoe.

 

2. TD and the Bills had just stupidly over-invested in Bledsoe restructuring and resigning him after a putrid 03 and egos were on the line.

 

3. Bledsoe was not the sole or even the leading cause of the 0-4 start and simply changing QBs (particularly to Matthews) was not likely at all to reverse the Bills fortunes.

 

4. MM believed in his approach and his choices and stuck with them feeling that the teams results would turn around if they stuck with his approach.

 

There were probably other reasons of import, but the lesson to take for consideration of the leash on JP is that were the Bills to get off to a horrible start. a lot depends on how this happens.  If the results occur because of Losman errors he is more likely to get benchhed.  However, if we lose because of a last minute opponent drive when JP left the field with a lead, even though one could fault the QB for not leading the team to a 30 point lead so an aooponent could not pull off an upset like the Jags did in Buffalo last season JP will be stuck with.

267389[/snapback]

 

Great post FFS!!!

Early in 04, MW was out of shape, CV was dinged up, WM was off the field (meaning Travis Henry was on it). These factors weighed heavily on the 0-4 start. It will remain impossible for some to grasp, but the 0-4 certainly was not all the fault of Drew.

As for JP, assuming he can win the job, he deserves a fair chance to show what he can do. I would not wanted to see him pulled out unless he is the primary reason for the Bills losing games. It would be unfair to expect the kid to be great overnight.

That said, he should not be allowed to kill the season for us if his performance is dreadful.

[Corp000085]

Bill, 0-4 was not the fault of drew, but he sure didn't help anything. FFS hit the nail with the ego comment. Drew was the guy last year, period. This could have led to drew playing poorly because he knew he wouldn't be yanked. Who knows. The best thing to happen to the bills this year is to get a QB who doesn't know any better. The pieces are pretty much set on offense for success. Ok, when is the draft? i'm getting excited for the camps and the season.

[OnTheRocks]

not that this is important...but do the Bills now not look to bring Matthews back at all?

 

do they draft someone to be #3?

do they watch NFL Europe for someone to fill the spot?

Or do they bring in another washedup vet to carry the clipboard?

[JoeF]

Great thread.

 

A couple of observations on JP. He historically has been at his best when things break down and he has to create on the fly. We have not had that skill since Flutie. This is somewhat a talent that cannot be learned but is a combination of natural athletic ability and an innate ability to sense pressure. The danger is to rely on this too much and you end up missing out on some big plays that would have worked but the QB gave up on them early. I don't know whether JP's "play on fly" skills will translate to the pros--but it will be fun to watch if they do.

 

As much as Flutie was reported to be a cancer--it was fun to watch things like the underhanded pitches and jump passes on the run--JP has this kind of ability.

 

I think this skill protects us somewhat from long stretches of losing--there is always the opportunity to will out a few wins because we minimize the three and outs and negative plays. Interceptions probably increase but so does time of possession and other things as we convert some 3 and 5 + yards using a QB's legs and improvisation ability....

 

To the original point of the thread--we are immeasurably better than we were a week ago at backup QB. I really like the downhome guy from Fayetteville, TN...welcome Kelly Holcomb...

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

not that this is important...but do the Bills now not look to bring Matthews back at all?

 

do they draft someone to be #3?

do they watch  NFL Europe for someone to fill the spot?

Or do they bring in another washedup vet to carry the clipboard?

267517[/snapback]

 

I actually shouldn't rag on Matthews too much (it's a by-product of folks seriously considering him as our #2) because though I do not think he is capable at all of being made our #2 when our #1 is a hopeful but risky choice, I think he would be a great choice as our #3.

 

1. He has seen a lot at QB in his 11 years and the ability to see things on the sidelines and in film that the #1 cannot see as easily in the heat of battle is a big part of both back-ups jobs.

 

2. He has played under Clements/Wyche and in the Bills O for a year.

 

3. He has built whatever chemistry he has with our back-ups as he ran the scout team for us.

 

4. He has experienced some success for us in a come-off the bench role last year in blow-outs as MM worked to give him a good swan song.

 

While, it would be foolish in my opinion to rely on him to play the Frank Reich role (give you a credible chance to win 3 games or so if your #1 went down), I think he could play the disaster QB role well of watching and being a virtual QB coach for the #1 and 2 QBs and might even be able to play the AVP role of coming in and being productive in one game as the opponents totally let down their guard after knocking 2 Bills QBs out of the game.

 

I think the mistake many Bills watchers make is to measure the quality of our #2 QB or our disaster QB by the same standards they apply for choosing a #1 QB. I can see how this happens, but this view fails to realize that under the salary cap, your #2 needs to be adequate but really not that good (otherwise in the semi-free market of the NFL he would command a cap hit which you do not want to weaste on the bench).

 

In addition, your first goal is to hope/plan for your #1 not to get hurt, because the #2 and #1 QB jobs (and certainly your #3) are really different jobs with a different skillsets needed than your starter.

 

A third point is that unfortunately in the real world, if your number 2 QB does what you want and plays well and your starter is struggling, a good professional acts like an adult and bides his time because he will get a payoff when the next off-season comes around and a non-professional acts like a juvenile (not surprising actually since most athletes are coddled youngsters really) and becomes a cancer.

 

I don't think many fans can accept what I think is the fact that Bledsoe (for example) was a marginal choice (at best and probably an unacceptable choice) to be the starting QB for the Bills, but if he were man enough to take the salary reduction, he would have been a great choice to be our #2 QB.

 

He had been great in this role as the #2 when injury gave Brady the chance to take his job, but he still wanted to star and lead a team (as unlikely as this is) and would not take the salary reduction necessary for him to be the #2 here. TD was correct to cut him, but was also correct to want him to stay here as #2.