ajzepp Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 Yeah, but that's just because you are an @ss! 221852[/snapback] Damn these hecklers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 Episodes I and II were so spectacularly bad that I won't even bother to see III until it's on HBO. I don't even know who most of these characters are, or what the frigging plot is all about. And that's compounded by some of the worst writing and acting in all of moviemaking. If you calculate "quality" (writing, acting, directing) per dollar amount spent, I would think Episodes I and II are probably the worst in Hollywood history. 221874[/snapback] The "adult-themed" plot in Ep. I and II had to do with a chess game......if you go back to Ep. 1 (and take out all the Jar Jar parts, stuff like that), you can see the implementation of a strategy that ultimately results in the formation of the Empire (such as we see in Ep. IV). It's like one manipulation and deception after the other......behind the scenes.....until everything is in place for the asss kicking that takes place in Ep. III. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gross Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 I have. It's called BAttlefield Earth by the Fraudentology master himself, L Ron Hubbard. 221758[/snapback] The movie's crap, and that's thanks to Travolta (he was the "force" that made it happen...Hubbard was dead and buried before production began). The books are good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mediaman Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 Is that the one where there are no live actors at all and EVERYTHING is cgi? If it ewren't for LOTR there would be no Star Wars. 221880[/snapback] The actors were somewhat live (stiff performances) it just that everything was shot on blue screen, so no sets. The only real sets were the scenes in palace on Naboo. Those were shot in Italy. But the rest were virtual sets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dib Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 The books are good. 221902[/snapback] I agree. the book was good and the movie was a travesty. Ever read the Worldwar series by Harry Turtledove? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gross Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 The "adult-themed" plot in Ep. I and II had to do with a chess game......if you go back to Ep. 1 (and take out all the Jar Jar parts, stuff like that), you can see the implementation of a strategy that ultimately results in the formation of the Empire (such as we see in Ep. IV). It's like one manipulation and deception after the other......behind the scenes.....until everything is in place for the asss kicking that takes place in Ep. III. 221890[/snapback] Oh, yeah, the whole story underneath the dreck is great, but the script-writing and direction are atrocious. Unfortunately, Lucas doesn't see it's worth replacing either person with someone capable.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 Oh, yeah, the whole story underneath the dreck is great, but the script-writing and direction are atrocious. Unfortunately, Lucas doesn't see it's worth replacing either person with someone capable.... 221911[/snapback] I can't disagree with you there......I don't know if you bought the original trilogy pack that came out a few months ago, but if you watch the 'Empire of Dreams' documentary, there is a point that is made over and over: Lucas is going to do it his way. Period. You get some perspective on things when you see how much the guy had to go through when he was making the first two films; it's pretty clear that it was those struggles which have solidified his "MINE!!!!!!!!" approach to the films. That bothers a lot of people, but I guess I'm just not one of them. I was 5 years old when SW came out. All the crap he went through to get his movies made early on benefitted me as much as they did him. SW was like my security blanket growing up in a family that constantly moved around the country lol. Anyway, the guy can pretty much do no wrong in my eyes......but I can understand why some people are critical of him, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gross Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 I can't disagree with you there......I don't know if you bought the original trilogy pack that came out a few months ago, but if you watch the 'Empire of Dreams' documentary, there is a point that is made over and over: Lucas is going to do it his way. Period. You get some perspective on things when you see how much the guy had to go through when he was making the first two films; it's pretty clear that it was those struggles which have solidified his "MINE!!!!!!!!" approach to the films. That bothers a lot of people, but I guess I'm just not one of them. I was 5 years old when SW came out. All the crap he went through to get his movies made early on benefitted me as much as they did him. SW was like my security blanket growing up in a family that constantly moved around the country lol. Anyway, the guy can pretty much do no wrong in my eyes......but I can understand why some people are critical of him, too. 221925[/snapback] Don't get me wrong, I was just a couple of years older, and my kids now play with all the action figures I collected over that time. I have all 5 on DVD (haven't watched Ep IV-VI yet, and I've heard a lot of good things about "Empire Of Dreams"), and of course this is the 3rd copy of IV-VI I have (original + special edition on VHS). I know that a part of the "camp" is on purpose, as Lucas has said that these movies were meant as a throwback to the old "serials," so I kinda deal with it. It's a shame, though, when you step back and look at how much better things could have been.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 Don't get me wrong, I was just a couple of years older, and my kids now play with all the action figures I collected over that time. I have all 5 on DVD (haven't watched Ep IV-VI yet, and I've heard a lot of good things about "Empire Of Dreams"), and of course this is the 3rd copy of IV-VI I have (original + special edition on VHS). I know that a part of the "camp" is on purpose, as Lucas has said that these movies were meant as a throwback to the old "serials," so I kinda deal with it. It's a shame, though, when you step back and look at how much better things could have been.... 221955[/snapback] True.....it sounds kinda silly, but I wish these were the kind of movie I wanted to watch over again every so often. Hell, I've watched the OT so many times over the years it's embarrassing. I have watched parts of Ep. I and II over a few times, but usually it's to demo my home theater lol. (You just can't beat the sound and pic quality of these films!) I have watched the Darth Maul scenes a few times, cause those rank up there with some of the scenes from the OT in my opinion. Aside from that, it's just not the same. To be fair, though, I don't think there was anything he could have done to re-create the OT. I mean, the first two films were nearly perfect, and the third one was only really tainted by the Ewoks. The interaction between Luke and Vader were well done, I thought. Some pretty intense moments there. The new stuff just can't compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollywood Donahoe Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 I love the prequels, personally. If you try to watch them like an actual movie (where believeable dialogue and natural dialogue delivery are of the utmost importance), you'll hate them. But if you view them in context and take them for what they are (action-packed, campy space operas), they're a lot of fun. The OT was exactly the same, but today's prequel-bashers are blinded by the sentimental feelings they have for those films, and are unable to view them objectively in a side-by-side comparison to the prequels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted January 28, 2005 Author Share Posted January 28, 2005 the thing that gets me is Lucas' total unimaginative character names: darth sidious general grievous hmm, wonder if they're gonna be bad guys i'm just glad he used the same names from IV-VI, otherwise he'd prolly have renamed Obi-Wan Asskicker and Yoda Uberjedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 I love the prequels, personally. If you try to watch them like an actual movie (where believeable dialogue and natural dialogue delivery are of the utmost importance), you'll hate them. But if you view them in context and take them for what they are (action-packed, campy space operas), they're a lot of fun. The OT was exactly the same, but today's prequel-bashers are blinded by the sentimental feelings they have for those films, and are unable to view them objectively in a side-by-side comparison to the prequels. 222008[/snapback] Yeah, I definitely can't view them objectively. I'm glad to hear someone speak positively about them (horrid, nightmarish avatar or not)......I think the main difference for me is whereas I can really get into the fight scenes, special effects, and overall coolness factor of some scenes, with the OT I felt emotionally involved with the characters. My only real emotional involvement with the characters of the prequel is the part that connects to the OT. I think that's a big reason why I don't find myself watching them over and over again like I have the OT. But I totally agree with you about context. I think that's what I focus on most when people tell me they made no sense. From the very first scene of Ep.I there is a background conspiracy going on. It's just that for a lot of people Jar Jar and giant water dinasaur things cloud their view. But, like I said......Lucas can really do no wrong in my eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gross Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 I love the prequels, personally. If you try to watch them like an actual movie (where believeable dialogue and natural dialogue delivery are of the utmost importance), you'll hate them. But if you view them in context and take them for what they are (action-packed, campy space operas), they're a lot of fun. The OT was exactly the same, but today's prequel-bashers are blinded by the sentimental feelings they have for those films, and are unable to view them objectively in a side-by-side comparison to the prequels. 222008[/snapback] I wouldn't say exactly the same. While Episode IV and (less so) V had the same kind of cheesy dialogue and acting, at least it didn't have to rely on characters that exist purely for comic relief. That said, and as I said, I own Ep. I and II on DVD, and have tried getting my oldest into the Star Wars saga through them, so it's not like I vehemently hate them. I just wish he had at least brought in a script doctor....some of the lines are just painful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gross Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 True.....it sounds kinda silly, but I wish these were the kind of movie I wanted to watch over again every so often. Hell, I've watched the OT so many times over the years it's embarrassing. I have watched parts of Ep. I and II over a few times, but usually it's to demo my home theater lol. (You just can't beat the sound and pic quality of these films!) I have watched the Darth Maul scenes a few times, cause those rank up there with some of the scenes from the OT in my opinion. Aside from that, it's just not the same. To be fair, though, I don't think there was anything he could have done to re-create the OT. I mean, the first two films were nearly perfect, and the third one was only really tainted by the Ewoks. The interaction between Luke and Vader were well done, I thought. Some pretty intense moments there. The new stuff just can't compete. 221971[/snapback] Oh, man, when Luke goes Dark Side on Vader, with Williams masterful score reaching a crescendo....chills man. Gosh, I'm such a nerd. But I knew that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 Oh, man, when Luke goes Dark Side on Vader, with Williams masterful score reaching a crescendo....chills man. Gosh, I'm such a nerd. But I knew that. 222041[/snapback] lol, well if that defines a nerd, then count me in........the part where Luke is hiding out and refusing to fight Vader, and then Vader......"your thoughts betray you.....thoughts of.....SIStah.......so, you have a SIStah......Obi wan was wise to hide her from me.......if you will not turn to the dark side.......then perhaps-she-will." Followed by Luke going ape sh*t on his ass.......I agree....that is definitely 'chills' material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 The OT was exactly the same, but today's prequel-bashers are blinded by the sentimental feelings they have for those films, and are unable to view them objectively in a side-by-side comparison to the prequels. 222008[/snapback] Yeah, I agree with Dan on this...the OT was not exactly the same. I have no particularly good feelings for V or VI; IV was a great film, but it doesn't blind me in any way from seeing the horridness of the later films. Yes, there was certainly come campiness to IV, and some particularly unattractive dialog in parts, but nothing compared to the drivel in the later movies. Plus, the acting quality took a nosedive with the prequels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted January 28, 2005 Author Share Posted January 28, 2005 lol, well if that defines a nerd, then count me in........the part where Luke is hiding out and refusing to fight Vader, and then Vader......"your thoughts betray you.....thoughts of.....SIStah.......so, you have a SIStah......Obi wan was wise to hide her from me.......if you will not turn to the dark side.......then perhaps-she-will." Followed by Luke going ape sh*t on his ass.......I agree....that is definitely 'chills' material. 222054[/snapback] vadar: the force is with you young skywalker. but you are not a jedi yet! </fight> vadar: you have learned much young one! luke: you'll find i'm full of surprises vadar: your destiny lyes with me skywalker. obi-wan knew this to be true </knocks luke into carbon freezing chamber> vadar: all too easy. perhaps you are not as strong as the emporer thought </luke climbing around> vadar: impressive! most impressive! obi-wan has taught you well. you have controlled your fear. now release your anger! only your hatred can destroy me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollywood Donahoe Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 I wouldn't say exactly the same. While Episode IV and (less so) V had the same kind of cheesy dialogue and acting, at least it didn't have to rely on characters that exist purely for comic relief. Oh, come on! Are you saying C-3PO was around for anything other than comic relief? Still, you're right. They're not exactly the same. That said, many of the elements that people HATE the prequels for (cheesy dialogue, campy acting) are just as prevalent in Eps. 4-6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 Oh, come on! Are you saying C-3PO was around for anything other than comic relief? Still, you're right. They're not exactly the same. That said, many of the elements that people HATE the prequels for (cheesy dialogue, campy acting) are just as prevalent in Eps. 4-6. 222080[/snapback] You know, the more I think about it, the more I think the MOST significant element of the OT that is missing in the prequels is Han Solo. There is no real equivalent of his character in the prequels. Who is the 'swashbuckler' type in the prequels? Mace Windu? I just the the Han factor is a big reason why the prequels don't measure up. There are a lot of other reasons, too......but you could give Harrison Ford the cheesiest line of all and he'd find a way to make it look cool in his delivery. You just can't replace that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNRed Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 I love the prequels, personally. If you try to watch them like an actual movie (where believeable dialogue and natural dialogue delivery are of the utmost importance), you'll hate them. But if you view them in context and take them for what they are (action-packed, campy space operas), they're a lot of fun. The OT was exactly the same, but today's prequel-bashers are blinded by the sentimental feelings they have for those films, and are unable to view them objectively in a side-by-side comparison to the prequels. 222008[/snapback] Probably the main difference between the PT and OT is that in the originals, Lucas went out of his way to give us reasons to like and care about the characters. The PT just introduces characters and assumes we'll care because we know what happens later. Anakin is little prick through two prequels and you have a hard time imagining him *not* going to the Dark Side. Doesn't seem like it'd take as long as it is or that no one saw it coming miles away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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