OCinBuffalo Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) Again, I'll oblige you... MUCH of the great music, art, theatre of the 20th century is a direct result of urban culture and urban experience. Jazz, Blues, Rock and Roll, Hip Hop is all the result of urbanites, in largely depressed economic communities, reflecting on their experience and expressing it artistically through the conduit of music. I'll say again, Jazz, Blues, Rock and Roll, and Hip Hop at its core and genesis, is a reflection of urban culture. Wanna argue the creative, financial, aesthetic impact of these musical genres? Will you argue against their significance artistically, societally, or otherwise? We're now talking about global import. In a more attenuated way, the genres mentioned above impacted the development and evolution of pop - which, in combination with neo-country music, dominates the population of music listeners. No significance? No contribution? No redeeming value? At let's discuss "hip hop," or "rap" music. You trivialized it with your "slap the _____ up" characterization. But does that really encapsulate rap music? The rap industry generates billions of dollars for record companies and artists annually. Billions. This is an industry that originated from the streets. Anything legal that originates from a culture, and can be continually ascribed to a culture, that generates billions in revenue and employs hundreds of thousands of people world-wide, is per se relevant, meaningful, significant, valuable and impactful. Now on to the artistry: At its core, rap music is an art form that requires an understanding of rhythm, cadence, syntax, and vocabulary in order to tell an esoteric urban story in such a way that the listener can understand through a strategic use of metaphors and other literary devices. This endeavor is made more difficult because there is a rhyming scheme that must be adhered to, and a point communicated, that holds the listeners attention. Two examples - both salacious, and onery at first blush: Little Wayne - "6 foot 7 foot" "Excuse my charisma, vodka with a spritzer swagger down pat, call my **** Patricia Young Money militia, and I am the commissioner you don't want start Weezy, 'cause the F is for Finisher So misunderstood, but what's a World without enigma? two bitches at the same time, synchronized swimmers got the girl twisted 'cause she open when you twist her never met the B word, but I f-ck her like I missed her Life is the B word, and death is her sister sleep is the cousin, what a f-ckin' family picture you know father time, we all know mother nature it's all in the family, but I am of no relation no matter who's buying, I'm a celebration black and white diamonds, f-ck segregation" At first blush, the subject matter is odious, rude, and appears to contain no redeeming social value. But not so. If you read it, it's entertaining. It flows. It tells a story. There are double entendres, metaphors, and a continual rhyme scheme throughout the verse. There are three levels of inter-relation. It's poetry, but not in any conventional sense. The next example will highlight this principle, and the dichomoty, better. Biggie Smalls "Ni**s Bleed" Verse 1 "Today's agenda Got the suitcase up in the Sentra Go to room 112, tell em Blanco sent ya Feel the strangest If no money exchanges I got these kids in ranges Believe them niggas brainless All they tote is stainless You just remain as Calm as possible, make the deal go thru If not, here's 12 shots, we know how you do Please make yo killins clean Slugs up in between They eyes, like True Lies Kill em and flee the scene Just bring back the coke or the cream Or else, yo life is on the shelf We mean this Frank Them cats we !@#$in wit put bombs in yo moms gas tank Lets get this money baby They shady, we get shady Dress up like ladies And burn em with 30 380's Then they come to kill our babies That all out I got gats that blow the wall out Clear the mall out !@#$ the fallout Word is Stretch, I bet they kitty The seven digits push me !@#$in real Here's the deal I got a hundred bricks, 14-5 a piece Enough to rooster a six by the house on the beach Supply the peeps with Jeeps Brick a piece Capiche? Everybody gettin cream No one considered the leech Think about it now, thats damn near 1 point 5 I kill em all I'll be set for life Frank pay attention These mutha!@#$as is henchmen Renegades, if you die they still get paid Extra probably, !@#$ the robbery I'm the boss Promise you won't rob em, I promise But of course you know I had my fingers crossed Verse 2 Since it's on, I call my nigga Arizona Ron From Tuscon, push the black Yukon Usually has the slow grooves on Mostly rock the Isley Stupid as a youngin, chose not to move wisely Sharper with game, him and his crooks, caught a ?jooks? Heard it was sweet, bout 350 a piece Ron bought a truck, 2 bricks layed in the cut His peeps got bucked, got locked the !@#$ up Thats when Rob vanished, came back, speakin spanish Lavish habits, two rings, 20 carats Heres a criminal Nigga made America's Most Killed his baby's mother's brother, slit his throat The nigga got bagged with the toast, weeded Took it to trial, beat it Now he feel he undefeated He mean it Nothing To Lose, tattooed around his gun wounds Heavy in the game, embedded in his brain And me I feel the same for this money and diamonds Specially if my daughter cryin, I ain't lyin Y'all know the signs Verse 3 We agreed to shoot till we silly Because niggas could be hidin in showers with Mac Billy's So I freaked em The telly manager was Puerto Rican Gloria, from Historia, I went to war with her Peeps in 91, stole a gun from her workers And they took drugs, they tried to jerk us We blaze they place, long story Glo seent my face, got shook Thought a nigga was comin for the safe Now she breakin, shut up, 112, whats shakin A jamaican, some bitches I swear They look gay In a black Range Rover Been outside all day If its trouble let me know, I'll be on my way Please I got kids to feed, I done seen you make niggas bleed Nightmare, this B word don't leave Ron, get the gasoline This spot, we bout to blow Lets get the cash before the cops and Range Rover cats notice Its room 112 Right by the staircase, perfect place When they evacuate, they meet they fate Ron pass the gasoline The nigga gave me kerosene !@#$ it, its flammable My hunger is unexplainable Strike the match, just what I expected The dred kid ejected in seconds And here come two Opposite sexes One black, one Malaysian We in the hallway waitin patient As soon as she hit the door we start blastin I saw her brains hit the floor Ron laughin I swear to God I hit MaxiPriest at least 12 times in the chest Spint around, shot the chick in the breast She cryin, headshots put her to rest Pop open the briefcases, nothin but Franco faces The spots hot, sprinklers, alarm systems Thats when other guests start to slip in Its time for us to get to dippin I know them niggas in the Range is on they way up Flippin, pistol grippin I know they clippin The hallway, got real loud and crowded They walked right past us I dont know how they allowed it The funny thing about it Through all the excitement They Range got towed, they double parked by a hydrant Stupid mother!@#$ers" Again, it's onery, pretentious, violent, odious...at first blush. But it's UNDENIABLY poetry. It's a narrative. Biggie is telling a story. It's no different than "Goodfellas," or "Scarface," or "Godfather," only without the visual component. The gentleman provided a window into his world. He told a story. There was exposition. There was rising action. There was Denouement. There was a conclusion. This is not artistically devoid. There is redeeming social value. There is a level of skill and proficiency required to write a good story, replete with humor, angst, drama, action, plot, and character introduction/discussion. And his story was told in 4 minutes, set to rhythm and a rhyme scheme for ease of digestion. Now there is some rap that is loud, obnoxious, crap that doesn't tell a story, isn't narrative, and contains almost no words. But there are some early Metallica songs that fit that description as well. Rap is yet another valuable thing that originates from urban culture. I am fan of Biggie, and I am huge Metallica fan. But, I suffer from no delusions: nobody will care about Biggie or Metallica in 10 years, nobody will remember either in 50. I'm not deluding myself into seeing artistic value in what amounts to kitsch, so I can appear "urbane" and "erudite". You sound like a grown up suburban teenager, who's trying to defend his buying all those NWA tapes back in the 80s, by now attributing the trappings of the bard to them. It's ridiculous. Dude, you cannot see the scam, because you are patently NOT a city person. And, these guys have been scamming you for so long, that now you are psychologically committed to it. Let me make it plain for you: if you suck and have no money, no real athletic or musical talent, and the best thing you can aspire to is having your own corner some day, that sucks. Especially when you know there are other kids who are doing things right this minute that are going to get them money, that you can't even comprehend. So, the only choice is to convince people that no, in fact, your life rocks, and theirs sucks. Your situation is cool, and theirs is weak. Then, you put together some beats and you go out and cut a 16 track infomercial describing how cool your situation is, and of course, how cool you are. Meanwhile, the kids in the suburbs, who are bored, because let's face it, the American dream of their parents is, ultimately, boring, hear your infomercial, and, being kids, say to themselves "hey, that's sounds cool". A perfect product for a perfect market. Get it? It's a scam. The fact is that most urban kids who are living in bad situations would do anything to get out. There are lots of ways out: the Army, Sports, etc. But, if you are a kid who has a lot of raw marketing talent, rap is the way to go. And, if they can feel better about themselves along the way, that's a bonus. But do not delude yourself, you are buying those steak knives, with the bonus sharpener, for $19.95 every time. In contrast, Miles Davis, or Muddy Waters/Willie Dixon, who can all claim to be as badass as any rapper, if not more, stand a good chance to last. Why? Because they were original, and, what they did actually requires talent above that of a Vaudevillian. Edited December 15, 2011 by OCinBuffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juror#8 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Whaaaa! Somebody else is getting attention! Hehehe. You are done. Yes, "the system" is what I am worried about when I head to the convenient store at 3am. In fact: (NSFW) youtube.com/watch?v=t7HHB3sDtfA "Nothing makes a _____ happier than not know the answer to your question. What's the capital of Zairre? 'I don't know that schit, I'm keeping in real'. _____s love to keep it real: real dumb". "Ted Koppel ain't never took schit from me. _____ have. Schit, you think I have 3 guns in my house cause the media outside? Oh schit Mike Wallace, Run!" "You know what's sad man? Martin Luther King stood for non-violence. Now what's Marting Luther King? A street. And I don't give a F where you are in America, if you on MLK BLVD there's some violence going down. It ain't the safest place to be. You can't call nobody and tell them you're lost on MLK. 'I'm lost, I'm on MLK' 'RUN!' 'RUN!' RUN' The media's there!" Chris Rock knows, why don't you? Oh snap...you're trying to make a salient point by relying on a comedy routine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juror#8 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) I am fan of Biggie, and I am huge Metallica fan. But, I suffer from no delusions: nobody will care about Biggie or Metallica in 10 years, nobody will remember either in 50. I'm not deluding myself into seeing artistic value in what amounts to kitsch, so I can appear "urbane" and "erudite". You sound like a grown up suburban teenager, who's trying to defend his buying all those NWA tapes back in the 80s, by now attributing the trappings of the bard to them. It's ridiculous. Dude, you cannot see the scam, because you are patently NOT a city person. And, these guys have been scamming you for so long, that now you are psychologically committed to it. Let me make it plain for you: if you suck and have no money, no real athletic or musical talent, and the best thing you can aspire to is having your own corner some day, that sucks. Especially when you know there are other kids who are doing things right this minute that are going to get them money, that you can't even comprehend. So, the only choice is to convince people that no, in fact, your life rocks, and theirs sucks. Your situation is cool, and theirs is weak. Then, you put together some beats and you go out and cut a 16 track infomercial describing how cool your situation is, and of course, how cool you are. Meanwhile, the kids in the suburbs, who are bored, because let's face it, the American dream of their parents is, ultimately, boring, hear your infomercial, and, being kids, say to themselves "hey, that's sounds cool". A perfect product for a perfect market. Get it? It's a scam. The fact is that most urban kids who are living in bad situations would do anything to get out. There are lots of ways out: the Army, Sports, etc. But, if you are a kid who has a lot of raw marketing talent, rap is the way to go. And, if they can feel better about themselves along the way, that's a bonus. But do not delude yourself, you are buying those steak knives, with the bonus sharpener, for $19.95 every time. In contrast, Miles Davis, or Muddy Waters/Willie Dixon, who can all claim to be as badass as any rapper, if not more, stand a good chance to last. Why? Because they were original, and, what they did actually requires talent above that of a Vaudevillian. A lot of good points here. And glad you're a fan of Biggie. It's sad how so many dismiss all rap as trash. Much of it is. A lot of it though, is poignant story-telling. If you see rap for what it is, and not try to compare it with Hendrix, Brubeck, Clapton, The Stones, Celine Dion, Phish, or whomever, it can be like listening to dramatic lyrical mini-series. But to some it will always be black folks, jumping around with their pants hanging down, talking in ebonics, over unconscionably bad noise (incidentally, that description reminds me of the dispute in an old property law 'nuissance or interference with the enjoyment of land' case where the guy complains of "noxious odors" coming from the adjacent chicken processing plant - well !@#$ing duh...ya shouldn't have moved there!). Contrary to the view of some stuffy prudes, not all rap is "noxious odor." The "rap is a huge infomercial" thing is interesting and, methinks, largely correct. Incidentally, about 10 years ago, when Cash Money, and those cats were getting big, I had a conversation with some friends and essentially opined the same thing....only not as nihilistically. I watched a BET interview with a then unknown and new-to-the-game artist, Juvenile (formerly of Cash Money) while he was in the Magnolia Projects wearing jeans in a t-shirt and some plain athletic shoes. The interview concerned his new video and album. In the video that debuted subsequent to the interview, he was flashing a somewhat pedestrian chain, and driving around in purple Plymouth Prowlers. I noticed that within a year of that video, his video were replete with cash being thrown in the air, Bentleys, Lambos, and a multitude of orchidaceous chains. It was then that I posited my theory that hip hop artists begin by showing you what they were advanced by the record company (because it represents an escape from traditional notions of "career path). The audience likes what they're shown so they buy records, download songs, ringtones, etc. The artists responds by buying more jewelry, better vehicles, and showing more money. The audience, captivated by the lavish lifestyle, then buys more albums so the artist can purchase more lavish things and show the audience what they just purchased for him. It's a weird form of vicariousness...that even admits itself physiologically. The artists are literally saying: "LOOK WHAT YOU BOUGHT FOR ME. I CAN TAKE THIS A STEP FURTHER IF YOU RESPOND TO THIS UNVEILING OF MATERIAL POSSESSIONS BY BUYING THIS NEW ALBUM." And it continues in that cyclical way ad absurdum. But how is it different then reality tv? Or Hollywood cinema? or Politicians? or the GI Bill? Why is it that the thespian is revered and the rapper is reviled? Both hope that the audience willingly suspends their disbelief long enough to buy into the narrative. Both are actors. Both discuss the implausible as if it were the commonplace and benefit financially because they have an audience for it. Why is that a scam? And doesn't it speak less to the snake charmer and more to the charmed? Isn't it simply a different approach to what people have yearned for for centuries...to be entertained and to get lost in a story. Edited December 15, 2011 by Juror#8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I was listening to the Neal Boortz Show this morning. A caller told a story about a black cop and a black kid that he had arrested. During the arrest the kid called the cop a mother !@#$er. He was additionally charged with something like disorderly conduct for calling the cop a mother !@#$er. The judge threw that out stating that calling someone a mother !@#$er was a cultural thing amongst blacks, and the kid could be excused for it. When the cop was leaving the courtroom the judge asked him if he was upset over the verdict. The cop replied "No sir, you mother !@#$er". I don't know if the story is true or not, but it's funny enough to relay it and this is the closest thread to put it in without resurrecting the Urban Youth thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 Oh snap...you're trying to make a salient point by relying on a comedy routine. You posted song lyrics. I responded with a comedy routine. Not only is it salient, it's entirely appropriate. Again, the "system" and the "media" is not who I am looking out for at 3am. The behavior of some idiot? Yes, that's what I am looking for, and if you think idiot only applies to black people, you're nuts. Do you think I'd be OK with getting mugged, as long as it was a white guy? Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 A lot of good points here. And glad you're a fan of Biggie. It's sad how so many dismiss all rap as trash. Much of it is. A lot of it though, is poignant story-telling. If you see rap for what it is, and not try to compare it with Hendrix, Brubeck, Clapton, The Stones, Celine Dion, Phish, or whomever, it can be like listening to dramatic lyrical mini-series. But to some it will always be black folks, jumping around with their pants hanging down, talking in ebonics, over unconscionably bad noise (incidentally, that description reminds me of the dispute in an old property law 'nuissance or interference with the enjoyment of land' case where the guy complains of "noxious odors" coming from the adjacent chicken processing plant - well !@#$ing duh...ya shouldn't have moved there!). Contrary to the view of some stuffy prudes, not all rap is "noxious odor." The "rap is a huge infomercial" thing is interesting and, methinks, largely correct. Incidentally, about 10 years ago, when Cash Money, and those cats were getting big, I had a conversation with some friends and essentially opined the same thing....only not as nihilistically. I watched a BET interview with a then unknown and new-to-the-game artist, Juvenile (formerly of Cash Money) while he was in the Magnolia Projects wearing jeans in a t-shirt and some plain athletic shoes. The interview concerned his new video and album. In the video that debuted subsequent to the interview, he was flashing a somewhat pedestrian chain, and driving around in purple Plymouth Prowlers. I noticed that within a year of that video, his video were replete with cash being thrown in the air, Bentleys, Lambos, and a multitude of orchidaceous chains. It was then that I posited my theory that hip hop artists begin by showing you what they were advanced by the record company (because it represents an escape from traditional notions of "career path). The audience likes what they're shown so they buy records, download songs, ringtones, etc. The artists responds by buying more jewelry, better vehicles, and showing more money. The audience, captivated by the lavish lifestyle, then buys more albums so the artist can purchase more lavish things and show the audience what they just purchased for him. It's a weird form of vicariousness...that even admits itself physiologically. The artists are literally saying: "LOOK WHAT YOU BOUGHT FOR ME. I CAN TAKE THIS A STEP FURTHER IF YOU RESPOND TO THIS UNVEILING OF MATERIAL POSSESSIONS BY BUYING THIS NEW ALBUM." And it continues in that cyclical way ad absurdum. But how is it different then reality tv? Or Hollywood cinema? or Politicians? or the GI Bill? Why is it that the thespian is revered and the rapper is reviled? Both hope that the audience willingly suspends their disbelief long enough to buy into the narrative. Both are actors. Both discuss the implausible as if it were the commonplace and benefit financially because they have an audience for it. Why is that a scam? And doesn't it speak less to the snake charmer and more to the charmed? Isn't it simply a different approach to what people have yearned for for centuries...to be entertained and to get lost in a story. The difference is: Miles Davis, Willie Dixon, Muddy Waters and Motzart for that matter, would have done what they did, regardless of whether money was involved. As such, they were: artists. An artist doesn't spend 20 minutes telling you how good his next work is going to be, sometimes in his medium itself. He may want to show you the work, but in general, he completes it, and then moves on. In stark contrast, we have rappers, who take a song, and continue to remix and sell the same thing over and over, and they even celebrate the fact that you bought it! One rapper can reissue the same song over a four year period, and live on it. Then, everybody starts covering the song and then they begin their remix campaign. This is the diametric opposite of what an artist does. An artist lets their talent do the talking, and for them their expression is the only things that matters. Now, we are sure to find ways to nitpick this, and examples where The Beatles played a song one way, and then later played it another. But the fact remains: A single Miles Davis song probably contains more talent than the last 20 #1 songs and all their inevitable remixes combined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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