thewildrabbit Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 The Lions won 24-13 with QB Matt Stafford, RB Jahvid Best and WR Calvin Johnson as the heroes. Megatron played great and that Lion O line played pretty well as they opened holes for the RB to go untouched to the end zone on that long scoring run. They also gave Stafford decent time to pick that Bear defense apart. Lions 5-0 along with Green Bay as the only 2 teams undefeated. They both meet on Thursday, Nov 24th, Thanksgiving day. To be perfectly honest I expected this years Bills O line to somewhat resemble that Bears O line that has allowed Jay Cutler to be sacked 18 times so far this year. Cutler is after all playing in that notoriously bad (for getting the QB killed) Mike Martz passing offense. Plus,that Bears O line had 9, that's right...NINE false starts. Anyway, I can't say enough about how well Jay Cutler played in that crappy offense while running for his life. The Bears did have some success running the ball, but every time Cutler went back to pass it was a constant jailbreak, and he managed to make some amazing plays considering how much pressure he was under all game long. I have to give Gailey and his staff props for the way that offense has played so far this year. Even with a rookie LT sub in for Bell who is out with an injury, Chris Hairston played very well considering it was his first start in the NFL at LT. Young players on the line and at WR and no boneheaded mistakes or miscues. Gailey has his team playing tough, both mentally and physically. I can't state enough how important this type of play is, reminds me of Marv levy and his "don't be dumb, don't be dirty" style. Watching that bear-Lion game reminded me of just how bad that Bills offense was under Jauron with Fairchild- Schonert- van Pelt calling the offensive plays and setting up game plans that were so easily defeated. As I watched that MNF game I couldn't help but think that is what Edwards and Losman used to look like in a lot of games for the Bills. Gotta give both Nix and Gailey credit for turning this team around in only their second year, I honestly didn't think they would be this good this fast! 4-1, who knew! P.S. that Baby is about to pop out any day now, 4 more wins will do it! Another victory over the Patriots and its twins. Wins over both the Dolphins and Jets and into the playoffs its Quintuplets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAWNDO Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Its nice to see that after picking in the top five for the past ten NFL drafts finally paid off for the Lions. All kidding aside the job that Nix, Gailey and the coaching staff has done is remarkable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 I honestly don't know how Martz keeps getting a job. The guy has an offense that he runs regardless of the opponent and regardless of the talent on his team. Cutler continues to get killed, Chicago fans are ready to run him out of town, and Martz just keeps throwing him to the wolves. I am so happy he didn't become our head coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 P.S. that Baby is about to pop out any day now, 4 more wins will do it! Another victory over the Patriots and its twins. Wins over both the Dolphins and Jets and into the playoffs its Quintuplets Dude congrats and let us know how it goes. It is none of my business but if the doc doesn't know if it is a baby or twins or quintuplets and your wife is due any day, you may want to look into getting another doctor. I hope you're not going with any of that hippy child birth no doctor crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 Dude congrats and let us know how it goes. It is none of my business but if the doc doesn't know if it is a baby or twins or quintuplets and your wife is due any day, you may want to look into getting another doctor. I hope you're not going with any of that hippy child birth no doctor crap. Yea they are, Chan Gailey is the midwife, and Nix is the father... they are going the wholistic approach...4 more wins means at least an 8-8 season, so by that analogy I'm hoping for duodecaplets! http://profootballta...-fans-the-baby/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/136114-do-the-bills-have-the-best-o-line-in-the-nfl/page__view__findpost__p__2280024 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I honestly don't know how Martz keeps getting a job. The guy has an offense that he runs regardless of the opponent and regardless of the talent on his team. Cutler continues to get killed, Chicago fans are ready to run him out of town, and Martz just keeps throwing him to the wolves. I am so happy he didn't become our head coach. I don't think there is an offense that calls for a really horrible O-line. The sack number isn't on Martz. It's a jailbreak on every snap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I don't think there is an offense that calls for a really horrible O-line. The sack number isn't on Martz. It's a jailbreak on every snap. The sack numbers and constant pressure is surely partially to blame on Martz because of his offensive scheme and his unwillingness to change. If you watch Cutler, their passing attack relies on 6-7 step drops. You can't do this in today's NFL. Totally ridiculous!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizell Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I don't think there is an offense that calls for a really horrible O-line. The sack number isn't on Martz. It's a jailbreak on every snap. :yeahthat: being friends with several Bears' fans, I hear "Frank Omiyale sucks ass" and hundreds of other variations every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 The sack numbers and constant pressure is surely partially to blame on Martz because of his offensive scheme and his unwillingness to change. If you watch Cutler, their passing attack relies on 6-7 step drops. You can't do this in today's NFL. Totally ridiculous!!! He's running backwards away from the pressure! Watch again--he has no time at all. 3-5 step drop would make no difference. What change is he supposed to make when there is no protection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) He's running backwards away from the pressure! Watch again--he has no time at all. 3-5 step drop would make no difference. What change is he supposed to make when there is no protection? Wrong. If the defense applies pressure or no pressure, the base design of their passing plays is cutler taking 6 or 7 steps back in the pocket from under center. Martz style of offense relies on an elite offensive line like that with the rams with Pace. With a bad offensive line this is just a poor scheme. Martz is living in the past with the greatest show on turf. Unfortunately he does not have the personelle to do what he liked with the Rams. Good coaching and a good scheme of that around your players makes A HUGE DIFFERENCE. Just look at what Chan Gailey is doing with our offense. 2 or 3 step drops under center with precise timing routes or a spread offensive out of shotgun and getting the ball out in a matter of seconds. THE REASON our offensive line is succeeding is because of the scheme of getting the ball out super fast. Martz inability to adjust to his offensive line is why he should be getting a lot of the flack as well. Edited October 12, 2011 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) Oh and another thing that falls on coaching and what I don't like about the style Martz has cutler playing is with the deep drops from under center and bad offense line, he won't have enough time to step into the pocket. This is key for accuracy. If you notice with Cutler he throws off his back foot a lot. And what do you know? He is known to throw a lot of interceptions. Again this is mostly coaching and devising a good scheme with the players you have rather than devising a scheme with your own ego. Edited October 12, 2011 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 Oh and another thing that falls on coaching and what I don't like about the style Martz has cutler playing is with the deep drops from under center and bad offense line, he won't have enough time to step into the pocket. This is key for accuracy. If you notice with Cutler he throws off his back foot a lot. And what do you know? He is known to throw a lot of interceptions. Again this is mostly coaching and devising a good scheme with the players you have rather than devising a scheme with your own ego. Yea I agree, the Bears HC knows defense and looks to know very little about how to run an offense As if that Bears O line wasn't bad enough last year, they lost their starting center 14 year vet Olin Kreutz at the beginning of this year to free agency to the Saints Anyway the HC seems pretty lame to me to allow their QB to continue take the beating he is taking and then make statements like: Smith said he was not concerned over the continued abuse that Cutler has been taking. "That's part of football," Smith said. "Jay's a big boy; he can take it. Sometimes quarterbacks get knocked down." http://www.cbssports...-or-stay-onside So many NFL analysts have stated they think Cutler is a unique talent, and that he could be in the top 5 of "elite" QB's in the league if he had a decent line and was in a better scheme. Cutler is on pace to get sacked 75 times this year....poor Bears fans, but better them then the Bills http://bleacherrepor...e-chicago-bears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Yea they are, Chan Gailey is the midwife, and Nix is the father... they are going the wholistic approach...4 more wins means at least an 8-8 season, so by that analogy I'm hoping for duodecaplets! http://profootballta...-fans-the-baby/ I don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) Oh and another thing that falls on coaching and what I don't like about the style Martz has cutler playing is with the deep drops from under center and bad offense line, he won't have enough time to step into the pocket. This is key for accuracy. If you notice with Cutler he throws off his back foot a lot. And what do you know? He is known to throw a lot of interceptions. Again this is mostly coaching and devising a good scheme with the players you have rather than devising a scheme with your own ego. Cutler threw plenty of ints before he met Martz. Yet last year he had his second fewest total since he has been a full time starter in the NFL--and only one more than Fitz threw last year despite being sacked an astronomical 52 times to Fitz's 24. Depsite being beaten up by Detroit's D, Cutler had zero ints in that game. He completed 74% of his passes despite no help from his O-line. He and Fitz both have 4 ints this year, despite a sack disparity of 18 to 3! Fitz has a far better o-line, without question. He does get rid of the ball quickly, but rarely under pressure. Culter isn't dropping back 7 and standing there on every play--he's taking off laterally and finding the open man. There is no offensive passsing style or plan for such a crappy o-line--other than running the ball all the time and hoping for the best. It all falls on the QB in this case. Martz isn't geeting Cutler "killed" (any more than he got Warner killed-people here said the same thing about the Rams, despite an "elite" o-line)--his O-line is. Edited October 12, 2011 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Cutler threw plenty of ints before he met Martz. Yet last year he had his second fewest total since he has been a full time starter in the NFL--and only one more than Fitz threw last year despite being sacked an astronomical 52 times to Fitz's 24. Depsite being beaten up by Detroit's D, Cutler had zero ints in that game. He completed 74% of his passes despite no help from his O-line. He and Fitz both have 4 ints this year, despite a sack disparity of 18 to 3! Fitz has a far better o-line, without question. He does get rid of the ball quickly, but rarely under pressure. Culter isn't dropping back 7 and standing there on every play--he's taking off laterally and finding the open man. There is no offensive passsing style or plan for such a crappy o-line--other than running the ball all the time and hoping for the best. It all falls on the QB in this case. Martz isn't geeting Cutler "killed" (any more than he got Warner killed-people here said the same thing about the Rams, despite an "elite" o-line)--his O-line is. Martz scheme is directly related to high sack totals. If you don't have a line and the surrounding personelle, his scheme DOESNT WORK. When the Rams were most dominant , so was their line. In 1999 when the Rams were out of this world dominant, they were ranked 25th. A high ranking number is good. I have his history below and it is staggering how many sacks his system gives up. IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE PERSONELLE HIS SYSTEM DOESN'T WORK AND YOU NEED TO ADJUST ACCORDINGLY. I can't think of any teams in today's game that can rely on 6 or 7 step drops anymore. Times have changed and he doesn't change his system. That's one of the problems right now in Chicago. http://www.footballnation.com/content/greatest-show-into-turf-mike-martz-and-sacks/9838/ Here is a quote from Ditka. "He's shell-shocked," Ditka said. "He's making mistakes that he normally wouldn't make and I think it's because of the pressure. He's trying to do too much and you can't do anything because of the pass protection and the way the plays are designed. If you're going to sit back there and take a seven-step drop every time, the ball has to come out." http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/7002233/chicago-bears-mike-martz-jay-cutler-downfall Now by this quote you have a QB that can't play in his scheme either. See the problem? You need to make adjustments and I haven't seen them from them. These 7 step drops were problems last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Cutler threw plenty of ints before he met Martz. Yet last year he had his second fewest total since he has been a full time starter in the NFL--and only one more than Fitz threw last year despite being sacked an astronomical 52 times to Fitz's 24. Depsite being beaten up by Detroit's D, Cutler had zero ints in that game. He completed 74% of his passes despite no help from his O-line. He and Fitz both have 4 ints this year, despite a sack disparity of 18 to 3! Fitz has a far better o-line, without question. He does get rid of the ball quickly, but rarely under pressure. Culter isn't dropping back 7 and standing there on every play--he's taking off laterally and finding the open man. There is no offensive passsing style or plan for such a crappy o-line--other than running the ball all the time and hoping for the best. It all falls on the QB in this case. Martz isn't geeting Cutler "killed" (any more than he got Warner killed-people here said the same thing about the Rams, despite an "elite" o-line)--his O-line is. YES there is a passing scheme and Chain Gailey HAS PROVED IT which can reduce pressure on the QB and it is in a short passing system with 3 step drop under center and shotgun in spread (quick slants, drag routes, bubble screens etc). Do you notice this is what Chan Gailey is doing and it is basically plug in play with personelle for the most part with the exception of the QB. You need the quarterback and I don't see why cutler couldn't run a system like this. Martz system intermediate to long routes with a dump off option to the RB. It is certainly part of the problem with a bad line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsrhody Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Martz scheme is directly related to high sack totals. If you don't have a line and the surrounding personelle, his scheme DOESNT WORK. When the Rams were most dominant , so was their line. In 1999 when the Rams were out of this world dominant, they were ranked 25th. A high ranking number is good. I have his history below and it is staggering how many sacks his system gives up. IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE PERSONELLE HIS SYSTEM DOESN'T WORK AND YOU NEED TO ADJUST ACCORDINGLY. I can't think of any teams in today's game that can rely on 6 or 7 step drops anymore. Times have changed and he doesn't change his system. That's one of the problems right now in Chicago. http://www.footballnation.com/content/greatest-show-into-turf-mike-martz-and-sacks/9838/ Here is a quote from Ditka. "He's shell-shocked," Ditka said. "He's making mistakes that he normally wouldn't make and I think it's because of the pressure. He's trying to do too much and you can't do anything because of the pass protection and the way the plays are designed. If you're going to sit back there and take a seven-step drop every time, the ball has to come out." http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/7002233/chicago-bears-mike-martz-jay-cutler-downfall Now by this quote you have a QB that can't play in his scheme either. See the problem? You need to make adjustments and I haven't seen them from them. These 7 step drops were problems last year. If "NOT WORKING" means making it to the NFC championship game.. then I'd take "NOT WORKING"... How do you measure success?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) If "NOT WORKING" means making it to the NFC championship game.. then I'd take "NOT WORKING"... How do you measure success?? Didn't the Jets make it to the Championship game too? I measure the Bears and Jets success mainly on their defenses. An elite defense with amazing special teams can get you VERY far in the NFL. But this thread is not judging the Bears overall. Going to the Championship games doesn't negate that their offense is a mess, partially to blame on the scheme employed. That's the point we are arguing here. Edited October 12, 2011 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) Didn't the Jets make it to the Championship game too? I measure the Bears and Jets success mainly on their defenses. An elite defense with amazing special teams can get you VERY far in the NFL. But this thread is not judging the Bears overall. Going to the Championship games doesn't negate that their offense is a mess, partially to blame on the scheme employed. That's the point we are arguing here. Just another point to consider, while Aaron Rodgers may have the best receiver corps in the NFL ....whats does Chicago have, one of the worst? Kinda of unreal that this team even made it to the NFC Championship last season No deep threat, no tight end as they traded TE Greg Olsen to Carolina for some unknown reason. Its almost like they are daring Cutler to succeed. The GM is a complete moron to state that its mostly Cutlers fault and he needs to get the ball out quicker...to who exactly I have no idea WR's Johnny Knox Devin Hester-Roy Williams ( the guy Dallas traded for who stinks)- TE Kellen Davis.. their leading receiver is RB Matt Forte...Knox their leading WR has 14 receptions for 254 yards. Just to give some insight, NE with Wes Welker has 45 receptions with 740 yards. Oh yea, wanted to add this from Yahoo Sports: QB Jay Cutler may have played his best game in the face of heavy pressure from the Lions that forced him to move around in the pocket or scramble in the backfield until a receiver came open. Despite three more sacks and several additional hits and pressures, not to mention at least three more drops by his receivers, Cutler completed 28 of 38 passes for 249 yards, one touchdown, no interceptions and a passer rating of 99.6. (Yahoo! Sports) Edited October 13, 2011 by Fear the Beard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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