LynchMob23 Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Morning y'all. I was driving to work today and on the Sirius Opening Drive, Former Bill Ross Tucker spent a good 2-3 minutes talking about how the Giants, Raiders and Bills needed a TE. I know we as fans have mentioned that a ton, but to hear it from Ross got me to thinking - how much has Chan actually used a TE in his offense outside of Buffalo? The first example I thought of was the Chiefs and T-Gonz's monster year. That turns out to be the outlier as you'll see below: Team Year Player Catches/Yards/TDS Denver 89 - Kay 21/197/0 Mobley 17/200/0 Denver 90 - Kay 29/282/0 Mobley 8/41/0 Sharpe* 7/99/1 Pittsburgh 96** - Bruener 12/141/0 Hayes 2/14/0 Pittsburgh 97** - Bruener 18/117/6 Dallas 98*** - LaFleur 20/176/2 Dallas 99*** - LaFleur 35/322/7 Miami 00 - Goodwin 6/36/1 Miami 01 - Goodwin 4/27/0 Weaver 18/215/2 Chiefs 08**** - Gonzales 96/1058/10 Cottam 7/63/0 *Bear in mind that in 90, Shannon was being used as an H-Back/WR/TE type and wasn't really integrated in the offense. **Slash was a favorite toy of Chan's in these years in Pittsburgh, but note how the TE in the second year had a 6 more catches, but yielded 6 TDs. ***In Dallas Chan used Deion as a receiver and kick returner, but LaFleur's catches much like in Pitt jumped up in year 2, as did his TD total ****In his only major outburst of TE prodcution, he had a HOF TE and a great WR in Bowe, who snagged 86/1022/7. They were responsible for at least 80 percent of the receptions on the team that year. So, based on what he's done and the numbers behind it, Chan can use a TE. He chooses not to, and as a result I'm intrigued as to which TE this year will have that year 2 jump he has had in the past, as opposed to any FA TEs we may or may not pursue. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlegm Alley Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 I think Shawn Nelson has a unique skill set that can be taken advantage of and is in the mold of what CHan might be looking for in a TE. He is the pass catching/athletic type that isn't known for his physicality, and with Chan's spread style offense, can create some mismatches with opposing defense's smaller personnel. I read somewhere that the undrafted FA TE from UNC the Bills picked up will be the #2 TE this year. He has had a history of injuries in his UNC career, but considering all the games that he missed, he still is the UNC record holder for most catches in a career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Rob Johnson Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 (edited) I'm curious on that outlier year with Gonzalez how much they used him split out as a WR and let a different TE handle the blocking role. Edited August 3, 2011 by Ghost of Rob Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynchMob23 Posted August 3, 2011 Author Share Posted August 3, 2011 I'm curious on that outlier year with Gonzalez how much they used him split out as a WR and let a different TE handle the blocking role. That's a good point. I was able to get the stats end from Pro Football Reference, but I haven't found a place where I could chart it...anyone know where that may be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defend Greece Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 This was a really good post, I missed it the first time around Good research, I love numbers. I think what they prove is chan adjusts his scheme to utilize the best players he has Charles Johnson, Andre Hastings, Billy Davis, Ernie mills, rocket Ismail, and yancey thigpen all had the only good years of their careers under him (rocket had one other good year) So I know the thread is about te's but it goes to show you he has taken no name wide receivers to the probowl before, Stevie won't be the first, or last Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynchMob23 Posted August 18, 2011 Author Share Posted August 18, 2011 This was a really good post, I missed it the first time around Good research, I love numbers. I think what they prove is chan adjusts his scheme to utilize the best players he has Charles Johnson, Andre Hastings, Billy Davis, Ernie mills, rocket Ismail, and yancey thigpen all had the only good years of their careers under him (rocket had one other good year) So I know the thread is about te's but it goes to show you he has taken no name wide receivers to the probowl before, Stevie won't be the first, or last That too is a fantastic point. If you look at his receivers, they really are mostly no-names or complementary guys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFlutie Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Besides with Gonzo, it seems like Chan likes to use his TEs in the red-zone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob T from OP Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Morning y'all. I was driving to work today and on the Sirius Opening Drive, Former Bill Ross Tucker spent a good 2-3 minutes talking about how the Giants, Raiders and Bills needed a TE. I know we as fans have mentioned that a ton, but to hear it from Ross got me to thinking - how much has Chan actually used a TE in his offense outside of Buffalo? The first example I thought of was the Chiefs and T-Gonz's monster year. That turns out to be the outlier as you'll see below: Team Year Player Catches/Yards/TDS Denver 89 - Kay 21/197/0 Mobley 17/200/0 Denver 90 - Kay 29/282/0 Mobley 8/41/0 Sharpe* 7/99/1 Pittsburgh 96** - Bruener 12/141/0 Hayes 2/14/0 Pittsburgh 97** - Bruener 18/117/6 Dallas 98*** - LaFleur 20/176/2 Dallas 99*** - LaFleur 35/322/7 Miami 00 - Goodwin 6/36/1 Miami 01 - Goodwin 4/27/0 Weaver 18/215/2 Chiefs 08**** - Gonzales 96/1058/10 Cottam 7/63/0 *Bear in mind that in 90, Shannon was being used as an H-Back/WR/TE type and wasn't really integrated in the offense. **Slash was a favorite toy of Chan's in these years in Pittsburgh, but note how the TE in the second year had a 6 more catches, but yielded 6 TDs. ***In Dallas Chan used Deion as a receiver and kick returner, but LaFleur's catches much like in Pitt jumped up in year 2, as did his TD total ****In his only major outburst of TE prodcution, he had a HOF TE and a great WR in Bowe, who snagged 86/1022/7. They were responsible for at least 80 percent of the receptions on the team that year. So, based on what he's done and the numbers behind it, Chan can use a TE. He chooses not to, and as a result I'm intrigued as to which TE this year will have that year 2 jump he has had in the past, as opposed to any FA TEs we may or may not pursue. Thoughts? First of all through out NFL History the great quarterbacks have had great Tight Ends.There are a couple of exceptions always.Nine times out of ten usually they are key to a QB's success. I can give numerous success stories throughout the years.Including Jim Kelly. It's strange but teams with winning records usally will have a Tight End that had a good year stats wise. So with that said. If Gailey chooses not to utilize the TE position as a receiver chances are they will have another losing season... 6-10..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 First of all through out NFL History the great quarterbacks have had great Tight Ends.There are a couple of exceptions always.Nine times out of ten usually they are key to a QB's success. I can give numerous success stories throughout the years.Including Jim Kelly. It's strange but teams with winning records usally will have a Tight End that had a good year stats wise. So with that said. If Gailey chooses not to utilize the TE position as a receiver chances are they will have another losing season... 6-10..... The Rams and thier "Greatest Show on Turf" would dissagree with you. There are many other teams in history that would also but I'm just pointing to it that there is more than just the conventional way of doing things. For example, nobody really remembers the star players of those Pats teams except maybe Brady and Bruschi because they were the best example of a TEAM winning a Super Bowl. The Ravens did it with defense as did the Bucs. The Steelers, Packers, and Broncos had very well rounded teams but tilted slightly in different ways. The Broncos wouldn't have done it w/o Elway or Davis. The Steelers ran it more effectively than through the air. They weren't all defense but w/o thier stud LBs and overall very good defense they wouldn't have done it. And the Packers also had a very good defense but w/o Rodgers they couldn't get it done because they had no running game. The Bucs with Brad Johnson and Ravens with Trent Dilfer were defenately not the norm. But why is it that everyone remembers those teams? Because they had historical defenses. The Bucs were elite and only got over the hump as Chuckie came in and added just enough offense to make it so. No suprise that the Raiders were all offense and got just enough defensive help to do the same. But as we al know so well, DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS!!! Same goes for the Ravens. Too defense ever!!! I'm just saying there's more than ine way to skin a cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrobot Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 More Fun with TE stats: The Bills combined TE's last year had the highest "Thrown To/% Caught" numbers in the NFL. This was for the most part B.C. (before Chandler) and without MigraiNelson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimace Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 First of all through out NFL History the great quarterbacks have had great Tight Ends.There are a couple of exceptions always.Nine times out of ten usually they are key to a QB's success. I can give numerous success stories throughout the years.Including Jim Kelly. It's strange but teams with winning records usally will have a Tight End that had a good year stats wise. So with that said. If Gailey chooses not to utilize the TE position as a receiver chances are they will have another losing season... 6-10..... Consider that the typical offense in the NFL has historically used a tight end. If most great quarterbacks have had great weapons to use on their offense (making each other look better), and most offenses utilize a tight end, then it stands to reason that the tight end on a team with a great quarterback is more likely to be a great player. These assertions don't allow an adequate prediction of the effectiveness of not using a tight end in an offense. In response to the OP, I'd be curious to see the rank of each of those offenses in comparison to the rest of the league for each of those years. There is little argument that Chan has been building his offense using players that weren't effective in other systems. However, he hasn't demonstrated that he can take his system, find key great players to add, and make a great offense that makes us an elite team. This will be the real story over the next few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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