LB Positions

[Joe Miner]

I've seen a lot of complaints about our LB's.

So if you all don't mind, I'd like for you to help me out with some of my thoughts.

 

According to the Depth Chart here's our LB

SLB 	Chris Kelsay 	Aaron Maybin
MLB 	Akin Ayodele 	Mike Balogun
WLB 	Paul Posluszny
JLB 	Arthur Moats 	Pierre Woods

 

From my understanding about 3-4 LB positions, I'm a bit confused.

 

SLB - Strong side LB. Should likely be the strongest LB and capable of taking on and defeating blocks from a TE and used to set the edge on rushing plays.

- So my question is, why is Maybin, who is possibly the weakest LB on the team second string at this position?

 

MLB - Middle LB. Usually the one to make the calls, and tends to be more responsible for getting to the RB and stopping the run.

- I thought Poz was making the calls? Which I guess doesn't have to be the MLB specifically. Usually this LB is one of the tops, if not the leader of the team in tackles. To me we seem to be using Poz in this roll, but that's apparently not his official roll.

 

WLB - Weak Side LB. This tends to be the fastest LB and the one used the most in coverage.

- My question would be, is this Poz's role because he's good at it, or because we have no one else?

 

JLB - Jack LB. This is the guy that rushes the passer. This is where I thought Maybin would be listed. Hopefully we've found a fit for this one in Moats.

 

From the looks of it, we have a potential fit at JLB, and one other LB that might be playing out of position. It seems like we really need at least 2 more LB's in this lineup. One with good coverage skills, and one strong enough to be the SAM and help stop the run.

 

I'm not a 3-4 expert, but this is how it seems to me.

[Captain Hindsight]

You have to list maybin somehwere. Most depth charts dont have the section i like to call left out

 

I think Kelsey is at SLB because it seems now he is a pure pash rusher and doesnt go into coverage that often anymore.

 

I like our LBs for now. I think moats, colman and hopefully batten will be good outside backers for us. I think our biggest weakness is a second ILB to match with poz. And yes Poz is a good player and he has improved alot as the scheme has become better understood.

 

A real beast in the middle to match with Poz and Moats and colman and kelsey rushing the passer and another DE and i think our defense improves greatly.

[bills_fan_in_raleigh]

I think we need 2 ILBs that can apply those bone crushing run stuffing hits. Maybin is scrap heap material and kelsey would be a decent depth but thats alot of money to pay for depth.

[Thoner7]

We have been running a 4-3 base alignment for around 8 weeks now so that is old information.

 

On Sunday we had a little tweak and our base D was a 4-3 over alignment, with the strong side backer on the LOS in a 2 point stance – which essentially makes it a 5-2 with a stand up end. I also noticed us in this a few times other weeks but it was used so much this week it was our base D. Moats was the SAM, always on the heavy side of the line with the TE. I noticed he played great vrs the run setting the edge well and also rushed a handful of times. Ayodele was the middle and Poz was the weakside, although they are essentially playing in the same position over the Gs, just Poz is alone to pursue to the sideline as Kelsay is terrible and has never set an edge ever in his entire career, while Ayodele had Moats guarding the wide side of the field.

 

I think Edwards is finding we play pretty well in this alignment and I feel we are really improving. Moat has really been the missing link and is playing great vrs the run and pass. PS I Maybin cannot play the SAM in this D as he cannot take on blocks and hold his ground. Teams would be able to crush us running to the strong side with Maybin at the crucial point of attack on the LOS.

 

- -On the Browns first drive I watched Kelsay get washed inside as the weakside D end resulting in huge runs for Hillis. On a few other times throughout the game I noticed it happen again but it wasn’t such a big gain. He stinks.

 

 

I am really hoping we stick to the 4-3, it is suiting us better and I think we can build a great d using a 4 man front.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Look at where they line up instead. Kelsay is playing mostly DE (other than the odd "wrinkle" when he flails around) and Maybin has played nothing but DE since pre-season (he's equally feeble on either side of the formation).

 

- -On the Browns first drive I watched Kelsay get washed inside as the weakside D end resulting in huge runs for Hillis. On a few other times throughout the game I noticed it happen again but it wasn’t such a big gain. He stinks.

You must've missed the reports after the game that he played great again. (I agree, btw: he sucks.)

[Bills99999]

I've seen a lot of complaints about our LB's.

So if you all don't mind, I'd like for you to help me out with some of my thoughts.

 

According to the Depth Chart here's our LB

SLB 	Chris Kelsay 	Aaron Maybin
MLB 	Akin Ayodele 	Mike Balogun
WLB 	Paul Posluszny
JLB 	Arthur Moats 	Pierre Woods

 

From my understanding about 3-4 LB positions, I'm a bit confused.

 

SLB - Strong side LB. Should likely be the strongest LB and capable of taking on and defeating blocks from a TE and used to set the edge on rushing plays.

- So my question is, why is Maybin, who is possibly the weakest LB on the team second string at this position?

 

MLB - Middle LB. Usually the one to make the calls, and tends to be more responsible for getting to the RB and stopping the run.

- I thought Poz was making the calls? Which I guess doesn't have to be the MLB specifically. Usually this LB is one of the tops, if not the leader of the team in tackles. To me we seem to be using Poz in this roll, but that's apparently not his official roll.

 

WLB - Weak Side LB. This tends to be the fastest LB and the one used the most in coverage.

- My question would be, is this Poz's role because he's good at it, or because we have no one else?

 

JLB - Jack LB. This is the guy that rushes the passer. This is where I thought Maybin would be listed. Hopefully we've found a fit for this one in Moats.

 

From the looks of it, we have a potential fit at JLB, and one other LB that might be playing out of position. It seems like we really need at least 2 more LB's in this lineup. One with good coverage skills, and one strong enough to be the SAM and help stop the run.

 

I'm not a 3-4 expert, but this is how it seems to me.

 

One of the cheerleaders should be ahead of Maybin on the depth chart

[SuperKillerRobots]

We have been running a 4-3 base alignment for around 8 weeks now so that is old information.

 

On Sunday we had a little tweak and our base D was a 4-3 over alignment, with the strong side backer on the LOS in a 2 point stance – which essentially makes it a 5-2 with a stand up end. I also noticed us in this a few times other weeks but it was used so much this week it was our base D. Moats was the SAM, always on the heavy side of the line with the TE. I noticed he played great vrs the run setting the edge well and also rushed a handful of times. Ayodele was the middle and Poz was the weakside, although they are essentially playing in the same position over the Gs, just Poz is alone to pursue to the sideline as Kelsay is terrible and has never set an edge ever in his entire career, while Ayodele had Moats guarding the wide side of the field.

 

I think Edwards is finding we play pretty well in this alignment and I feel we are really improving. Moat has really been the missing link and is playing great vrs the run and pass. PS I Maybin cannot play the SAM in this D as he cannot take on blocks and hold his ground. Teams would be able to crush us running to the strong side with Maybin at the crucial point of attack on the LOS.

 

- -On the Browns first drive I watched Kelsay get washed inside as the weakside D end resulting in huge runs for Hillis. On a few other times throughout the game I noticed it happen again but it wasn’t such a big gain. He stinks.

 

 

I am really hoping we stick to the 4-3, it is suiting us better and I think we can build a great d using a 4 man front.

 

I think they've been playing variations of the 5-2 since after the bye. Whether they are in the 3-4 and have Kelsey and Moats/Torbor outside or playing 4-3 and have Kelsey play on the line as the 5th guy, the only differences are whether the 5th guy puts his hand on the ground.

 

I actually like the defense that they play now (scheme-wise) and I think they really need another (or a) pass rusher and an ILB who can step right in an they should be good to go. We need a few more guys to help stop the run and add some pass rush.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Yep Thoner. I noticed the same thing. Moats played over the tight end (granted Cleveland played a lot of two tight end) most of the time as the strong side backer.

 

Also, the Bills have been doing a thing with Kelsay where he simply puts his hand down and the defense goes from a 3-4 to a 4-3…except the backer on his side (usually Ayodele) plays inside, not outside of the end (Kelsay). In this alignment Ayodele and Poz appear as inside backers would in a 3-4 but it is actually a 4-3 alignment because Kelsay has his hand down and is on the line of scrimmage.

 

Because I'm not a coach, I've been calling this an offset 4-3. This is what the Bills have played a majority of the time in recent weeks. Moats would be across from the tight end.

 

To explain it better, it's basically a 3-4 except Kelsay the weakside backer moves to the line of scrimmage and puts his hand on the ground. He plays outside (caps) the backer on that side (usually Ayodele). Moats plays outside the DE (usually Stroud) on the other side.

Edited December 14, 2010 by San Jose Bills Fan

[Thoner7]

“Crazy” Joe Miner – is that you?

 

504 E. 38th Street?

[Mr. ChumChums]

Yep Thoner. I noticed the same thing. Moats played over the tight end (granted Cleveland played a lot of two tight end) most of the time as the strong side backer.

 

Also, the Bills have been doing a thing with Kelsay where he simply puts his hand down and the defense goes from a 3-4 to a 4-3…except the backer on his side (usually Ayodele) plays inside, not outside of the end (Kelsay). In this alignment Ayodele and Poz appear as inside backers would in a 3-4 but it is actually a 4-3 alignment because Kelsay has his hand down and is on the line of scrimmage.

 

Because I'm not a coach, I've been calling this an offset 4-3. This is what the Bills have played a majority of the time in recent weeks. Moats would be across from the tight end.

 

To explain it better, it's basically a 3-4 except Kelsay the weakside backer moves to the line of scrimmage and puts his hand on the ground. He plays outside (caps) the backer on that side (usually Ayodele). Moats plays outside the DE (usually Stroud) on the other side.

 

Here's probably the best article I've ever read on NFL defenses. Gives you an explanation on pretty much any alignment, as well as the defensive theory that goes behind it. Explains pretty much whatever you need to know.

 

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/2009/09bramel_idpguide.php

 

This article has also been featured in the NYTimes 5th Down blog.

 

I haven't been able to watch the games as much as I would like to, so I can't really place which version of what defense we're using. however, from what I've been hearing, we've been running the 1-Gap 3-4, with except with Kelsay's hand on the ground, giving us something SIMILAR to an OVER 4-3, but not quite the same.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Here's probably the best article I've ever read on NFL defenses. Gives you an explanation on pretty much any alignment, as well as the defensive theory that goes behind it. Explains pretty much whatever you need to know.

 

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/2009/09bramel_idpguide.php

 

This article has also been featured in the NYTimes 5th Down blog.

 

I haven't been able to watch the games as much as I would like to, so I can't really place which version of what defense we're using. however, from what I've been hearing, we've been running the 1-Gap 3-4, with except with Kelsay's hand on the ground, giving us something SIMILAR to an OVER 4-3, but not quite the same.

Thanks Mr. CC…I have this lovingly bookmarked.

 

The front the Bills are playing is ironically (because of Jauron) the one in the section titled: "How The Tampa-2 Defense Made Stars Of Warren Sapp, Derrick Brooks and Ronde Barber"

 

It is exactly this front that the Bills have been running…SLB over the tight end, WLB inside the DE. But we are not playing a Tampa-2 from the standpoint of the secondary.

 

The other thing about this article is that it explains "The Belichick "Hybrid." This is what I was referring to last week when there was a draft thread and everyone was getting hung up on fitting a player into a 3-4 or a 4-3 scheme. In Belichick's system you still need to draft players smart enough to play in the system but it actually allows you to draft the best players available and find a way to make them successful. You don't have to be obsessed with what scheme a player fits within.

[dgrid]

Here's probably the best article I've ever read on NFL defenses. Gives you an explanation on pretty much any alignment, as well as the defensive theory that goes behind it. Explains pretty much whatever you need to know.

 

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/2009/09bramel_idpguide.php

 

This article has also been featured in the NYTimes 5th Down blog.

Awesome article!!

[Joe Miner]

We have been running a 4-3 base alignment for around 8 weeks now so that is old information.

 

On Sunday we had a little tweak and our base D was a 4-3 over alignment, with the strong side backer on the LOS in a 2 point stance – which essentially makes it a 5-2 with a stand up end. I also noticed us in this a few times other weeks but it was used so much this week it was our base D. Moats was the SAM, always on the heavy side of the line with the TE. I noticed he played great vrs the run setting the edge well and also rushed a handful of times. Ayodele was the middle and Poz was the weakside, although they are essentially playing in the same position over the Gs, just Poz is alone to pursue to the sideline as Kelsay is terrible and has never set an edge ever in his entire career, while Ayodele had Moats guarding the wide side of the field.

 

I think Edwards is finding we play pretty well in this alignment and I feel we are really improving. Moat has really been the missing link and is playing great vrs the run and pass. PS I Maybin cannot play the SAM in this D as he cannot take on blocks and hold his ground. Teams would be able to crush us running to the strong side with Maybin at the crucial point of attack on the LOS.

 

- -On the Browns first drive I watched Kelsay get washed inside as the weakside D end resulting in huge runs for Hillis. On a few other times throughout the game I noticed it happen again but it wasn’t such a big gain. He stinks.

 

 

I am really hoping we stick to the 4-3, it is suiting us better and I think we can build a great d using a 4 man front.

 

I haven't seen the games, but have read around here that we are basically using a 4-3 at this point.

 

My thoughts were more geared to what was the problem in the 3-4 and what we would need to actually achieve a decent set of 3-4 LB's.

 

I also wasn't aware that Moats was really manning the SAM LB. So that could change a few things.