daquixers Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 The new NFL.com power rankings are 100% - Peyton Manning is the best passer/QB of all time ... and I understand COMPLETELY if many of you are not willing to give him that title yet - we can wait a few years and see what you say then. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/7943977 "4. Indianapolis (8-3; unchanged): Peyton Manning is the greatest passer the game has ever seen. Period. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Then why do they have the Bills ranked at #16? If they were right we would be above the Rams and Seahawks. ... but I think this discussion is being held elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers Posted December 1, 2004 Author Share Posted December 1, 2004 Thats Sportsline (#16) ... not NFL.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 The new NFL.com power rankings are 100% - Peyton Manning is the best passer/QB of all time ... and I understand COMPLETELY if many of you are not willing to give him that title yet - we can wait a few years and see what you say then. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/7943977 "4. Indianapolis (8-3; unchanged): Peyton Manning is the greatest passer the game has ever seen. Period. " 140498[/snapback] Greatest passer? Probably. Greatest QB? No. Not even in the top 5 all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Thats Sportsline (#16) ... not NFL.com 140504[/snapback] hmmm.. your right. Either way someone better explain why Seattle is #12. That makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers Posted December 1, 2004 Author Share Posted December 1, 2004 Greatest passer? Probably. Greatest QB? No. Not even in the top 5 all time. 140509[/snapback] Are you joking? About 85% of all knowleadgable fans already think he is in the top 5 ... were just waiting for him to play 4-5 more years so we can call him #1. He exploits defenses like no one else in the history of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Are you joking? About 85% of all knowleadgable fans already think he is in the top 5 ... were just waiting for him to play 4-5 more years so we can call him #1. 140514[/snapback] Unless he can show me he can win a big game, he won't make that spot: Top 5 (in no particular order): Elway Montana Farve Johnny U Bradshaw Honorable Mention: Kelly Young Namath Aikman Brady/Marino So that's 10 people I have ahead of him as a QB. To be a QB you have to win big games and lead your team. Manning is not yet in any of these people's leagues in that regard. If he can win a SB then he will get in the top 10, if he can win 2 then he will be in the top 5 for sure. Tell me anyone of those 5 or 10 people you would put Manning above and tell me why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Brady/Marino 140517[/snapback] Don't mention Brady in there. Brady wins as many games as Big Ben wins, none. His defense wins games, Brady just plays average, gets his 17 pts/game and wins because his defense caused 4 turnovers and scored a defensive touchdown. Peyton carries his team on his shoulders offense/defense and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolinaBill99 Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Are you joking? About 85% of all knowleadgable fans already think he is in the top 5 ... were just waiting for him to play 4-5 more years so we can call him #1. He exploits defenses like no one else in the history of the game. 140514[/snapback] I have no doubt he will break Marino's records and be the greatest "passer" of all time. Unfortunately, he will share another stat with Dan. Peyton will never win a Super Bowl not because of him, but because his defense sucks so bad. It is not getting better either especially with his salary holding the team back. By the way, it takes more than stats and passing to be a great QB, it takes the most important thing, leadership when the game is on the line. Peyton is great at this, but Joe M, John E, and Brett F are better. That is why they are better QBs than Peyton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Don't mention Brady in there. Brady wins as many games as Big Ben wins, none. His defense wins games, Brady just plays average, gets his 17 pts/game and wins because his defense caused 4 turnovers and scored a defensive touchdown. Peyton carries his team on his shoulders offense/defense and all. 140518[/snapback] Brady won 2 superbowls with less talent on offense than Manning has ever had. His numbers are impressive but more so is his clutch performances in big games. You have to give him honorable mention. Especially if he wins another one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 By the way, it takes more than stats and passing to be a great QB, it takes the most important thing, leadership when the game is on the line. Peyton is great at this140519[/snapback] No he's not. And that is his biggest weakness. Manning has never been able to win with the big game. He out-thinks himself. That's his flaw. He can prove me wrong with a SB ring. And I am cheering for him to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losman-McGahee-Evans Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Unless he can show me he can win a big game, he won't make that spot: Top 5 (in no particular order): Elway Montana Farve Johnny U Bradshaw Honorable Mention: Kelly Young Namath Aikman Brady/Marino So that's 10 people I have ahead of him as a QB. To be a QB you have to win big games and lead your team. Manning is not yet in any of these people's leagues in that regard. If he can win a SB then he will get in the top 10, if he can win 2 then he will be in the top 5 for sure. Tell me anyone of those 5 or 10 people you would put Manning above and tell me why. 140517[/snapback] Manning is Dan Fouts until he actually wins something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Of course, Manning's still got quite some career ahead of him now. Remember how long it took John Elway to win a Super Bowl? But not winning a Big One keeps him out of the all-time greats for right now. He's a young Dan Marino, and nothing better for the time being. If the game's on the line, I'd rather have Young, Montana, Elway, Favre, or Aikman. And that's just in the past 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kota Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 As soon as Manning wins 4 superbowls for his team like Montana did then you might have something. Records don't mean stevestojan if you don't have a ring. Ask Dan Marino if he would give up all his records for 1 ring and i bet he would say yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolinaBill99 Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 No he's not. And that is his biggest weakness. Manning has never been able to win with the big game. He out-thinks himself. That's his flaw. He can prove me wrong with a SB ring. And I am cheering for him to do so. 140523[/snapback] I was refering to his 4th quarter comebacks which he has been good at. He obviously has choked in big games though... Can't argue with that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Of course, Manning's still got quite some career ahead of him now. Remember how long it took John Elway to win a Super Bowl? 140526[/snapback] Of course. You are absolutely right. I personally like Manning a lot. I think he is a true professional and (seems to be at least) a genuine nice guy. And I root for him to do well (and have done so since his days back in Tenn). But he always comes up short in the big games. He has since college. I think it's a mental hurdle that he has impossed on himself. That's why I don't agree with the Elway compairson. Elway always came up in the big games...even when his team lost. When Manning has played in the big games his team has given him a chance and he just comes up short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 It's hard to compare QBs from different eras because the game is constantly evolving and changing. Some of the great QBs of the past might have trouble with today's NFL and vice versa. On another note. I think Buffalo cracks Carucci's top twelve within a couple weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 It's hard to compare QBs from different eras because the game is constantly evolving and changing. Some of the great QBs of the past might have trouble with today's NFL and vice versa. On another note. I think Buffalo cracks Carucci's top twelve within a couple weeks. 140535[/snapback] Another good point. But two qualities trancend throughout eras: Leadership and Clutch. Everyone on that list has both of those qualities. Manning certainly has leadership, but so far he is not clutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Tell me anyone of those 5 or 10 people you would put Manning above and tell me why. 140517[/snapback] Dax, I'm still waiting for your list. I'm not picking a fight or saying you are wrong, just curious as to who you would put and where Manning ranks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartshan-83 Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 As soon as Manning wins 4 superbowls for his team like Montana did then you might have something. Records don't mean stevestojan if you don't have a ring. Ask Dan Marino if he would give up all his records for 1 ring and i bet he would say yes. 140527[/snapback] Actually they did ask him that question (and Chris Carter) on Inside the NFL this season. The question was Hall of Fame career vs. One ring. Both said Hall of Fame career and I totally agree. There are a lot of players in the NFL with superbowl rings (Rob Johnson for example). And there are a lot of players who did directly help their team win ONE superbowl. Do you think Dan would change places with Doug Johnson or Kurt Warner? Didn't think so. But about Manning...I do agree. He accounts for so much money on the Colts salary. They will never be able to build a good defense. But he may win one, he's still got a lot of football left in him. But until he does, he does not belong amongst the greats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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