Peevo
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I can't be the only poster on this board that was too young to remember the 90's Bills, right?
I'm 30, and I genuinely can't remember a thing from those years.
So imagine being 22, 18. Plenty old enough to be "into" football, but why on earth would you care about the Bills in the same way?
The team beats to death, "love the Bills because you love Buffalo," as if because I reside here therefore I MUST love and worship a for-profit organization, that does all of its business in a white-bread, suburban sprawled, country town 15 miles south of Buffalo.
Maybe it's time to ask them to their job better. I know, I know, "I'm a hater," but seriously how much can they sell "We were really good during the first Bush administration 30 years ago" before it wears off?
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Jason Peters didn't fit in Jauron's plan either.........and he's still playing at a high level on his way to the HOF.
Marshawn Lynch didn't fit Chan Gailey's long term vision..........well, you get my point..........both those HC failures are out to pasture.
The over/under on McDermott is 3 seasons.
Sammy probably more like 9 more seasons.
Not sure when you guys are going to stop swallowing the hook from yet another cowboy HC with a big hat and no cattle.
Let them PROVE something for a change.
Number one asset a HC can have is being able to marry his systems to the talent in place.........drastic roster re-shaping has a near 100% fail rate........prove something too us McDermott and THEN MAYBE you can start disposing of the star players.
I agree.
There's never any vision or cohesion with this team, thus all the turnover in management and coaching and then talented players are stuck somewhere in limbo.
Bills fans in general seem to have such short memories. Why sign Terrell Owens then trade your starting LT in the same offseason? An aging former superstar doesn't help your team do much when your young players in their prime get the boot.
No vision.
Why trade up to draft Sammy Watkins if your head coach wasn't even on board with the idea? If the coach and GM aren't on the EXACT same page in the draft room, why do it?
No vision.
It ought be pointed it out not every player that's left Buffalo has had tremendous success. Jairus Byrd, Mario Williams, Lee Evans, McGahee, etc. There's plenty of examples to prove either point. But I do think the Bills are very guilty of never fully executing any plan they have.
I think McDermott needs an honest 5 years. If they're 6-10 again next season, I say start completely over. Trade/cut McCoy, let Taylor go and tank the year. And then rebuild from scratch. Then he has 4 years to build a winner in his image. I just can't stomach 6-10, 7-9, 7-9, 8-8 again. Either be good or be terrible.
The drought is old enough to drive after 9, why not let it vote, get drafted, buy cigarettes, do porn, and eventually buy alcohol? Seems fair, it's just starting it's life!
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I totally agree. The idea that the Bills' low talent retention rate is because of anything except the product of FO incompetence doesn't fit the facts. The Bills have sucked at drafting, especially in the first two rounds, since John Butler and AJ Smith left for San Diego after the 2000 draft. It has absolutely nothing to do with changing coaching schemes sending lower round picks packing.
The Bills have drafted the following in the first and second rounds since 2001:
2001: 1- Nate Clements (#21), 2- Aaron Schobel (#46)
2002 1- Mike Williams (#4), 2- Josh Reed (#36)
2003 1- Willis McGahee (#23), 2- Chris Kelsay (#48)
2004 1- Lee Evans (#13), 1 - JP Losman (#22)
2005 2 - Roscoe Parrish (#55)
2006 1 - Donte Whitner (#8), 1- John McCargo (#26)
2007 1 - Marshawn Lynch (#12), 2 - Paul Posluszny (#34)
2008 1 - Leodis McKelvin (#11), 2- James Hardy (#41)
2009 1 - Aaron Maybin (#11), 1 - Eric Wood (#28), 2 - Jairus Byrd (#42), 2 - Andy Levitre (#51)
2010 1 - CJ Spiller (#9), 2 - Torrell Troup (#41)
2011 1 - Marcell Dareus (#3), 2 - Aaron Williams (#34)
2012 1 - Stephon Gilmore (#10), 2 - Cordy Glenn (#41)
2013 1 - EJ Manuel (#13), 2 - Robert Woods (#41), 2 - Kiko Alonso (#46)
2014 1 - Sammy Watkins (#4), 2 - Cyrus Kouandijo (#44)
2015 2 - Ronald Darby (#50)
2016 1 - Shaq Lawson (#19), 2 - Reggie Ragland (#41)
The outright busts: Williams, Losman, McCargo, Hardy, Maybin, Troup, Manuel, Kouandijo. That's 8 total wastes from 30 picks in Rounds 1 & 2 between 2001 and 2014, which is almost 27%. That, boys and girls, is abysmal drafting.
One striking thing about the list is the number of players who had physical questions about their health when they were drafted. Mcgahee, McCargo, Troup, Kouandijo, and Lawson all fit that category. Of the veterans, only Mcgahee worked out. We'll see about Lawson.
Another striking fact is how many of the guys who actually did work out, some of them Pro Bowl players, the Bills either let walk or sent packing in their primes. That would include Clements, McGahee, Lynch, Posluszny, Byrd, Levitre, Gilmore, and Woods. Certainly the most egregious example of this is Marshawn Lynch.
If you think that the Bills haven't made the playoffs in 17 years for any reason other than front office incompetence, I have a sllightly used but recently rehabbed bridge over Chautauqua Lake that I'd like to sell you.
As for the new administration, they'll have to prove themselves before I fall for OBD's shell game again.
This is hard to argue with. Great job. Let's see the apologists try their hands at defending this one.
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So to be clear... you feel that releasing Kouandjio means we will have a 6-10 record this year? What record do you believe we would have if we had kept him on the roster?
No it's not about CuJo specifically, it's terrible drafting year in and year out that keeps this team mired in mediocrity. One player left from 2012 draft. None from 2013. 3 from 2014.
A small market team can't survive without drafting well. You can point to the Patriots terrible drafting over the past ten years, and that may be true. But we all know the reason why that doesn't affect them. Buffalo consistently whiffing at the draft is a major reason they don't get any better.
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Amazing. The Bills have a total of 3 players remaining from the 2014 draft. 6-10 do it again!
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i love how everyone says Rob Johnson was the right choice.... his stats were absolutely horrendous in the wild card game and he gave up a safety at one point (i think he was 9-18 for 107 yards or something)
bills would not have been a playoff team had Rob Johnson started all 17 games that year... Flutie struggled that year but it is not far fetched to think flutie could have done a little more to win that game
Flutie was responible for 3 turnovers not 5.... Eric Moulds fumbled a 50+ yard catch after being caught from behind and reed also fumbled in the 4th quarter (should have been called down) .... bills also had a eric moulds touchdown ruled out of bounds and an andre reed obvious touchdown ruled short of goalline (which led to 15 yard penalty for spiking his helmet - pre-replay era)
It is really both parts fascinating and sad that 17 years removed from this era fans remain so passionately divided on this topic.
Fascinating, and sad. Bear in mind, I was 12 years old at the time so most of these memories are very hazy. But I remember our household, my mom, dad, and older brother were firmly in pro-Flutie camp. So I was a Flutie guy by default.
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I look at depth as a blend of quality and quantity with any position. At QB they have a solid starter with experience in the offense, vet backup with a playoff background and experience in the offense, a rookie considered the most NFL-ready in the draft, and a 2nd year project with unique physical talent. That's a nice mix to have.
Thanks, Russ Brandon.
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That was back in the day and I would agree with your point about Overdorf. Who I suspect will be moving along any day now.
But why are people being so hard headed about wallowing in the past? The Pegulas have indicated they want a new philosophy and have brought two guys in to match that. Who cares what happened with Dick Jauron?
I don't forget this stuff because I refuse to give this team any kind of a pass, especially when holdovers from that era still remain employed with power in the organization. Namely - Russ Brandon and Jim Overdorf.
Until all the old guard execs at One Bills Drive are no longer receiving paychecks, I will refuse to give them any benefit of the doubt.
Too few fans on this board view the Bills with enough well-earned, much needed skepticism. I don't trust them, and until they prove me wrong, neither should you.
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Teams have multiple individuals involved in player evaluations. Your issue is they have given you answers and you just don't like the answers.
Wrong, it's when multiple separate people are some how equipped with the power to make decisions when the the team itself says someone else is equipped with said power to make that decision.
How in hell is Jim Overdorf powerful enough to cut a player, but the GM didn't make that call?
This is the point.
Except when Dick Jauron insisted we draft Aaron Maybin.
This.
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Skipped pages 2-5, but kind of doubt I missed much in the way of new content.
To get back to the issue in the thread, I do think who has the final say on the 53 man roster is important and something a Bills fan would reasonably care about as well as feel some justified entitlement to knowing about.
If the answer is Beane, then control of the team is more evenly apportioned. If the answer is McDermott, then he obviously has complete control. There is a difference between the two, although not one that should impact who would get canned given the matched contract lengths. The difference speaks more to whether or not Beane is a true GM. If Beane does not have control of the final 53, then would his position not be better described as head of football operations, director of player personnel, or something similar.
If the answer is anyone other than Beane or McDermott... yikes
Probably answered in a press conference, so please forgive me in advance, but does the head coach still report to Brandon like did Marrone? (link)
(Of note, and per that link, I was unaware that Rivera reports(ed?) to Gettleman.)
I think this is completely reasonable.
Since the drought, the Bills have been inept at explaining, in plain English, who does what, when , and why over there.
Who cut Troy Vincent? Was it the GM? No, it was Jim Overdorf. Oh, ok.
Who drafted EJ Manuel? Was it Buddy Nix? No he's Whaley's guy! No but Buddy Was the GM!
Who drafted Aaron Maybin? Russ Brandon was their GM, but apparently Jauron "had to have him" - I specifically remember an Allen Wilson report about this some years ago. RIP to a very respected NFL writer.
Who drafted Shaq Lawson? Whaley was GM, but how much influence does Rex have?
Doug Marrone wanted to fire Bud Carpenter, but was overruled by "the old guard" management of Brandon, Overdorf and !@#$ing Scott Berchtold, their COMMUNICATIONS executive.
So, when all of those Buffalo News writers fans hate ask a VERY SIMPLE question, "who makes the decisions about the players?', expecting a lucid, simple, explicit answer after 17 years of dysfunction is more than fair. Sorry. Not sorry.
These are all pointed, specific examples of ineptitude of their organizational decision making. Fans care about this stuff because most of those above players mentioned furthered the drought, albeit the jury's out on Lawson.
This ends this fall, or in 3 years time when the Bills are 6-10, 7-9, 9-7 again, they fire everyone and start over, again.
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This is such garbage. How convenient to act like you have it figured out with the greatest QB of the era.
They have gone through and have made a plethora of changes. They have two constants that are so good, the other changes are irrelevant. That's how good hoodie and Brady are.
The content of what he's saying has some truth to it, but it's elementary not some enlightened thought. The better example of this, IMO, is the Bengals. They believe they have a good coach and they stay steadfast on that belief and make adjustments to their roster. They are also an example that if you don't have the best QB of the era, continuity doesn't always translate into winning.
I would have much more respect for Kraft if he would just say he's been fortunate. Instead he bloviates about how he's figured out how to bring ego's together and all that other crap.
Precisely.
Any Patriots #thinkpiece about "The Patriot Way," or "model organization top to bottom" is code for "we have the greatest QB ever and you don't." Why has no one abdicated for some useless, no name, never heard of him DT to just take the guy down?
He's won 5 rings, has nothing left to prove to anyone. Furthermore, whatever punishment the Bills (preferably) would receive is so extremely disproportionate to how losing Tom Brady affects the balance of power in the AFC so greatly.
Headhunting is commonplace in the NHL. Teams do it every day without apology or guilt. As terrible as it is to say, what's the worst thing that could happen to the Bills if they just took Tom Brady out? I'm serious. What's the worst thing that could happen?
The lose a draft pick? Suspension? Fine? Who cares? You just put your team in a position to win its division for the first time since the Clinton presidency.
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"Winning at Losing"
I think this is the best one so far.
Buffalo Bills 2017: "Now is the time to feel the power to lead the recharge of running deep in Bills Country." Order your season tickets now! Russ is a business guy now! He only works for the Sabres!
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I forgot he existed.
I think the goal is the most obscure, irrelevant cant-believe-he-was-a-thing drought era Bill.
What's another useless Bill from circa 2008? For example, 3rd round pick DE Chris Ellis from VIrginia Tech. I sincerely have no idea who this person is. Did he ever play? I'm sincerely asking.
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Roscoe Parrish
George Wilson
Willis McGahee
Takeo Spikes
Shawn Merriman
Chris Kelsay
JP Losman
Trent Edwards
JEFF TUELLLL
You forgot such drought era notables as Ryan Denney, Derek Schouman, Derek Fine, Tim Euhus, Coy Wire, Keith Ellison, and TJ Graham. Oh, and James Hardy.
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Mike Williams, JP Losman, Aaron Maybin, Donte Whitner, John McCargo, CJ Spiller, Torell Troup, Leodis McKelvin, James Hardy, Chris Kelsay, Josh Reed, Ryan Denney.
Woof. Just awful 1st and 2nd round picks. No wonder we've sucked for so long. Even the ones that were "good" were extremely questionable.
Sad news to hear, regardless.
Totally agree. How many of these players even played through their rookie deals with the Bills?
Can anyone remember anything of substance McCargo, Maybin, Troup did on the team? I'm seriously asking. I cannot think of one play. Hardy had, what, 10 career catches as a Bill in two seasons?
I know, Troup had a severe, life threatening back injury. I get it. But man, so many wasted picks.
Yeah, I guess it's sad a 75 year old man is gone or whatever. I've buried at least 4 close friends that never got a whiff of 30. So I'd say 75 is a pretty good life.
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I think the building is going to be renovated and made into PS&E offices as well as Sabres' administrative offices (possibly even Bills). Probably a small television studio. Also a large Sabres/Bills/OneBuffalo Store.
This makes sense. As a Millenial (I hate using that word, but born in 1987 I am definitely in that demo), it seems we can't get enough craft beer in this town. I wonder when the ceiling hits on the breweries/distilleries. Every where I go, Resurgence, Thin Man, Big Ditch, CBW are all usually pretty busy. But I'm def concerned about over saturation.
Regarding it seems inevitable new stadium, keep an eye on what happens with the new train/transit hub in Buffalo. I'd absolutely think the logistics of a new light rail/Amtrak/Metro bus station and its proximity to, lets say, miles and miles of undeveloped waterfront or east side property, is a MAJOR tell as to what the Pegulas ultimately will do.
And as someone who's read a lot, and I really mean a lot, about how taxpayer funded stadia rarely, if ever, benefits the taxpayers, I'd have to support any structure that gets long term, multiple uses. A retractable roof or dome is an absolute must. It's almost inarguable. Who can possibly defend spending upwards of $800 million of taxpayer money on a building to be used 8 times a year? It's abhorrent. Hell, KeyBank Center maybe gets 100 days a year of use. Maybe, including Bandits games, WWE and concerts. Is it even 100 times a year?
The possibility of luring big time events, say, Wrestlemania (Buffalo is a BIG TIME WWE market), or deeper NCAA basketball tournaments, or major college football neutral site games, can only happen with a domed or retractable roof stadium. I know, these are all out-of-the-box ideas, but in my opinion, if we're spending that kind of taxpayer money, we better use the damn building. AT&T Stadium's hosted the Final Four, Wrestlemania, Alabama football, the College Football National championship. I know, Dallas is major market. I know. I'm not an idiot. I'm just saying Buffalo needs to start thinking in these terms with new stadium construction.
I need concerts, conventions, trade shows, etc. Think big. Buffalo's too often bogged down by it's own inferiority complex. We just hosted one of the best-attended opening rounds of the NCAA tournament. This is all positive. We need more of that.
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Sadly, I think advertising is one of the reasons for the beginning of a slow decline for the NFL. I can't watch a single NFL game in TV unless its the Bills. It's maddening and I don't have the patience for TD, commercial, extra point, commercial, kickoff, commercial. It's nauseating. I've come to love EPL soccer, watch an entire match commercial free in one hour, forty-five minutes. I think the NFL only cares about the fans insomuch as the fans are its collective ATM. Look at relocation. The NFL and its teams basically said "Fans need to invest in our money-making model and build us a stadium or we're leaving." Socialized debt, privatized profit. As a STH, I wouldn't lose a minute's sleep if the Bills left or if the NFL went backwards. I like the game, the game, but it's getting worse. I think the players become more unlikable every year, the owners greedier, and the product sh!ttier. And because it's a growth based business, it can't sustain itself on stable revenue, it needs practically impossible levels of new revenue annually. It's not sustainable with more advertising! So back to the original point... it won't matter, the NFL will advertising itself to death because ads, clicks, products, etc. drive the league, not tickets. If they went to no commercials, we'd be bombarded with changing graphics on the field during play, uniforms that do look like stock cars, and an 8 foot tall add ribbon at field level. It would like like a casino and b unwatchable.
And when will they wake up and put the Super Bowl on Saturday? They want to increase viewing, stop putting it on at 6:30 on a Sunday on the east coast and ending it at 10:30. That's the dumbest thing ever, they've destroyed tradtion every year with more dumb rules and relocations but they stupidly sit on a Sunday Super Bowl. Moronic.
All of this. So well written.
Any "conservative" would freak out if some community center was built with $800 million of public money to be used 10 times a year. But because it's some mediocre football team that never wins anything, TAKE MY MONEY.
Also, LOVE the idea of Super Bowl Saturday. Why isn't this a thing? The Super Bowl is a de facto American holiday. Why wouldn't every bar, restaurant, brewery, etc in America want Saturday night business?
It pumps tons of money into LOCAL entertainment business, while also giving the stressed out, overworked, exhausted M-F 9-5ers a day to recover.
I fail to see literally any good reason why the Super Bowl should remain on Sunday. Screw tradition. I'm also the guy that wants whole scale conference and divisional realignment and relegation. But that's me.
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We all know the stats about the longest playoff drought in North American professional sports. Did you know gas was on average $1.30(!)/gallon in 1999?
But the other pro team in Buffalo is also working on quite the playoff drought of their own.
Their last appearance was in 2011, which is six seasons ago should the Blue and Gold fail to make it again this year. Which will also make it exactly 10 seasons since their last playoff series win.
Unfortunately, the stats I can find, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NHL_franchise_post-season_droughts, do not say if the pending six season drought is a franchise record for the Sabres or not.
Since both teams have been pretty bad since, well, Twitter was a thing, who do you think finally breaks the drought first?
The team without a franchise quarterback, playing twice a year the team with the greatest quarterback to ever play?
Or a team still stuck in mediocrity almost two seasons removed from some of the worst professional hockey ever played, in the hopes of getting "generational" talent?
I guess it's pretty even money, should there be a betting on line on such a thing as this. But if pressed to an answer, I'd say the Sabres have the best statistical chance at breaking the drought.
Many more games leaves more chances to correct mistakes, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs are reasonably easy to obtain, as more than half the league gets into the first round. But that doesn't mean I'm right.
What say you?
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I do not believe you could do that realignment l. The Patriots are an AMERICAN FOOTBALL LEAGUE Team.. not a National Football League team from the old days. That's what the SB about after all.. the old AFL V the old NFL.
I appreciate your perspective, but if you're old enough to remember the AFL rivalries, you're not in the NFL's target audience demo. It's just a fact. The 60's were a very, very long time ago.
Doing anything because "it's always been done that way" is easily the worst reason to do anything. The AFL "rivalries" are older than desegregation, Vietnam. It's been a long enough time. Time to change it up.
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The answer to all of this so simple. Just realign the leagues so that the NFC has to deal with the greatest team ever for a few seasons.
I know, I know, this is a good idea, so it won't ever happen.
We (collectively, royally, not actually) have the power to change things. But people are hesitant and fear new ideas. But if the NFL truly, honestly, believes in parity and evenness in competition, they must act to change the balance of power in the conferences.
The Patriots are so good, they skew every data set 3 to 4 standard deviations over from the mean. It's the farthest right on the bell curve if you will. Hashtag stats.
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We are in agreement on this topic.
I picked up something interesting in a Simmons podcast talking to Lombardi (former Pats employee). The majority of the league operates under a structure where they have a few guys at select positions making a very high percentage of the salary cap (QB, LT, WR, Pass Rusher, CB) and then filling out the roster with cheap labor, ie draft picks and guys who've fallen through the cracks. Whaley has said multiple times this is his method. The Pats operate under a different structure, Brady is the highest paid, but at a severely depressed QB salary number and the rest of the roster is full A) guys who understand the way the team operates and sacrifice some money to fall in line or B) guys making ~$6-$10 mil that most of the league ignores in their salary structures. This allows the Pats to be a deeper team, and helps them overcome injuries to a guy like Gronk or even Brady's suspension, meanwhile guys like Collins and Jones who want to be paid are flipped out for draft picks when their value is at it's peak and the show keeps rolling along.
Only Brady is "bigger than the team", it's time to extract value from Jimmy (and likely Gronk too) and just roll along. I also wouldn't be surprised if BB isn't overly concerned with post-Brady life as it might be the time he retires as well.
More "Patriot Way" stuff. It's very easy to get any player to take less money because they have the greatest QB to ever play, and thus can use "you want to win championships every year, sign with us" as the ultimate bargaining chip.
I'm sure every team would operate under this structure if they had the luxury of Tom Brady and all the extra perks it gets you, besides dominating in every facet of the conference for a generation. One would think the NFL would get involved at some point.
Not on the cheating, just on it's parity / self-imposed balancing. The Patriots are so good they blow away the argument that "any team can be successful" and "any team can beat any team" mantra they sell to its corporate sponsors and rabid ticket and merchandise buying fanbase. It's just simply not true. Parity does not exist with the Patriots in the AFC. They've made the conference title game 6 years in a row, an NFL record.
How the NFL could argue this is fair is beyond comprehension. They have a conference where 15 (!) teams are competing for 1 spot in the conference championship every year. Something must be done, whether with whole scale conference and divisional realignment, or instituting some sort of promotional/relegational conferencing system. It's just boring. It's not interesting for any football fan besides those living in Massachusetts.
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I have
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Started and finished elementary, middle, high school and college. Toured the country with my band multiple times. Several long term relationships began and ended.
Buried 3 grandparents, 2 best friends and dear family friend. Working in what I think may be my career for the past 6 years.
Along with my fellow millenials, we've never sipped a beer and watched the Bills in the playoffs. The losing has fundamentally altered the way I view, interpret and expect future results.
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This thread is like groundhog day.
Comes around over and over--was only a few weeks ago last time.
But this must mean that it's a popular idea among some fans.
I have yet to read a competent, lucid, well-reasoned argument against changing the NFL alignment, schedule or "rivalries."
What do Bills fans stand to benefit, from an entertainment stand point, of playing the Dolphins, Jets and losing to New England 2 times a year every year? I'm seriously asking. How is this fun? Variety is the spice of life. Baseball grew its popularity when interleague play started in the 90's. The NHL gets every team twice in a season. NBA, etc.
Yes, of course, there's more games. But the principle is the same. Let the fans see more than just the same 4 teams 6 times a year.
Buffalo Bills top 50 plays during drought years (2000-2016)
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Just goes to show how oftentimes fans forget how long this drought is.
Just look at the Presidents. Clinton, Bush, Obama and now Trump. 5 terms! By my count there's been 9 Olympiads since the Bills last made the playoffs.
It's all just so hopeless and depressing. "See! Remember that one time we beat the Patriots back in 2011 when Tom Brady threw 5 INTs! It can happen!" Remember that one awesome throw JP Losman made back in 2006?
Remember all those great kickoff returns Terrence McGee made? Member? I member!
Brady has one bad game every 3 years or so, so maybe Buffalo gets him again on such a fateful day.