Dibs

I have faith in Lindell. Apart from the loads of good points people have made backing him up on this thread.... As we all know(or should), Marv is a huge proponent for the 'kicking' teams(special teams). I cannot stress that enough. He considers them a full 1/3 of the team...as important as offense or defense. Considering we have a gazillion dollars under the cap....& considering there were an unusual number of top, top kickers on FA...it is hard to imagine that if Lindell is anything but above average that Marv would not have made a move on one of the FA kickers. In regards to UConn James' comment of available & within budget....all of the kickers below were both available & within budget(considering Marv would probably justify paying top dollar for his loved 'kicking teams') Adam Vinatieri Mike Vanderjagt Ryan Longwell Todd Peterson Joe Nedney AV & MV both possible HOFers with the others as legit first class starters.(if a bit old in some cases) Also Marv could have tried for Josh Brown of the Seahawks who was a RFA. As I said, with all those top kickers available....I have complete faith that Lindell will minimally get the job done.

Isn't Elvis Grbac the first openly gay QB?

I'm not picking on you here HA, I see a lot on TBD think similar to you on this but I do not. What I'm getting at is the term 'average'. If you take your defensive grades it reflects what a bad performance we had....but only 1 year before we had the #2 Defense for the second year running. Can the players all be really as bad as your grades? Had you graded them then, I think your grades would have been resoundingly higher. As an example of 'average'(according to Dibs) 32 players at a possition. (Double for OLB types) Top 10 good. Bottom 10 bad Middle 12 Average These numbers probably should be closer to 8,8,16 for most positions. Basically your gradings state that there are 22-24 FSs better than TV....or Fletcher is not in the top 10 at his possition....or there are 44-48 OLBs better than Possey.....or 44-48 DEs better than our Kelsay/Denny combo. Just because they play in Buffalo does not mean the expectations are higher than for players not playing in Buffalo. Try listing off actual players better than ours & you'll find you run out of names pretty quickly for most possitions. Mind you it is similar if you list players worse than ours. This is because the talent we have(generally) is average. My original line was "Pretty much any other GM would have left Marv with a similar amount of usable talent on the roster." When I look around the league I don't feel we are devoid of talent & in the pits of dispair. Hell, just on performance, if we had better play-calling & drive we would have ended up right in the middle of the league.

Hull went undrafted by an NFL team & went straight into the USFL. IMO centers are very much like QBs in that the mental side of the game is probably more important than the physical. This is why so many decent to good QBs & Cs develop from lesser draft picks. The physical ability may be obvious in college but the mental abilities...I wonder if they will ever be able to quantify them. I disagree with you about Hull being the 'most' underappreciated(though certainly a worthy contender) My nomination for the most underappreciated player of the "Glory Years" would be Mark Pike....though this being Kents threads I'll refrain from listing his credentials. From memory Hull made 2(maybe 3) pro bowls but that does not properly show his importance to the team. To quote Marv... "The responsibility for seeing that our difficult to run, but vaunted, no-huddle offense would rest just as heavily upon the physical and mental abilities of Kent as it would upon those of our quarterbacks." In other words....no Kent....no no-huddle.....no SuperBowls.

From 1982-2003 there have been 31 players drafted as guards in the 1st round. Of those 31, 9 have gone on to play in a Superbowl...or 29% On the surface, that might sound O.K. but..... Lets assume the average playing age of an NFL 1st Rounder is 5 years. In any given 5 year span, any guards chance of playing in a SB is 5 in 16...or 31% As you can see, on straight averages the 1st round guards are below the average in SB appearances(& most were playing in pre-expansion times making it worse). My interpretation of these stats are.... Drafting a guard in the first round does not make any difference on weather the team will make the SB or not. I think it is just that lately(Steelers & Seahawks) it seems to work....over the last 20 years however, it simply equals the average at best. I can list all the picks & the ones that played in the SB if people want. I chose not to to save on scrolling.

NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

I think that they are that hard to build....if you want to build a good D as well....& have good skills players. Look at the Chiefs...they have had an awesome O-Line for years(which I am jealous of) but there D is constantly below average to average & their WRs tend to be only a decent helpers for their TE. The running game is always great but how could it not be? The only sure way to win it all is to have a great team & some luck. I know that's not an intelligent comment but I honestly feel there is more than one road to the SB. Consistency is the key.

Me too. I think that if RP didn't get injured(& showed talent) then FS would have been cut & Wilson would have been the #6WR....not that i'm saying he is that good, just a comment on Parrishs & Fast Freddys roles. This year is a huge ???? to me at this point. There is so much 'potential' there that virtually any of them could wind up on the roster. I suppose my guess at this point would be... 1 LE 2 PP 3 JR 4 AD 5 RP 6 hmmm....?????.....Aiken I feel really encouraged at how much competition there will be throughout the WRs. The more potential, the more chance of solid players

Precious or what???

But nobody is saying TD was a success. Honestly HA, I think you often make very good points & you make them with a smile(which I like) & I don't disrespect you....however.....I feel you are a tad fixated on the whole TD/success thing. I don't think he was a success, & as far as I'm aware I have never stated he was one(unless you include pre-Bills day ). Our differences(as far as I can tell) are over how big a failure he was, not over weather he was one. In fact, I stated him as 'average' in the post you quoted me from in regards to talent input & I called him 'a disaster ' in regards to picking head coaches. I have also questioned(later post) the concept that TD might not have had as big a contribution to the talent acquisitions as we assume....he certainly wouldn't have if Marv was his coach. Actually, if someone knows how the Coach/GM relationship ran with TD, I'm quite interested to find out.

Perhaps the reason is a blend of all the points you guys have made...what I mean is... 7 WRs 3 locks...EM, LE, JR 1 injured...RP 2 Special Teamers...SA & FS #7 Wilson Perhaps SA & FS are not as good as Wilson(or at least in potential/development) but their ST abilities locked them into the squad....on a good ST team, 6 slots are often appointed just for ST players. Therefore, with an injured RP(who healthy probably makes FS redundant), Wilson becomes the true #4 receiver(or at least the guy you want there on game day to obtain the experience). Or it could be that MM liked his mum.

Just to add to that point... We all make generalizations(like that one I just made). If every generalization was picked up on & argued over, discussions would never get anywhere. Basically I implore people(LaDairis) to not just argue semantics to simply divert the issue away from a good point. This is what politicians do. My only advice to people when this happens is to stay focused & re-iterate the point until it is properly acknowledged or simply don't respond. I am genuinely interested in what most here have to say....I'm getting a bit sick of not being allowed to hear it due to 'distractions'.

I agree. An area where I feel TBD diverges from the norm is that generally the major element of perceived success/failure of a teams performance falls onto the coach. Here at TBD there is the feel that said major element falls onto the GM. In the real world, if a team wins it all, the coach is a genius. If the team fails, the coach is run out of town. Hell, I don't even know who half of the GMs are around the league. I know the GM selects the coach & therefore is responsible but..... I'm (slowly)reading Marvs Autobiography. Throughout his coaching career he had 'power struggles' as a coach with the GMs he had(mainly at K.C.). He insisted on having the final say in all football & personnel matters which is how it should be. TD made some bad decisions. Obviously they outweighed the good ones he made. He was not however coach of the team. Strangely enough I continually find myself 'feeling' that Marv is the HC. I have to remind myself that it is DJ who will be calling the shots...hopefully listening intelligently to Marvs views. Upon reading Marvs thoughts on the role of the HC & GM I fully believe the final say on all football/coaching/personnel decisions will be DJs. I cannot see Marv not respecting his HCs decisions.

Ah yes, but I was responding to the question " how many of TD's players have shown they deserve to be starters?" I agree with your assessment though....except for Schobel.

Most of the key players will be TD acquisitions: Losman, McGahee, Evans, Peters, McGee, Spikes, Crowell, Schobel and maybe Clements. Fletcher & Villarrial, Posey, Moorman, Lindell with Gandy & Vincent as argueables. That's 14(16) players. As I said in my earlier post, I think that's about average for an NFL team. Most teams(average) are continually looking to upgrade in lots of areas. I agree with Albany,n.y. in that TD was a disaster picking head coaches. The talent should have performed much better last year.

If he was on the road in Denver he could not possibly be the Denver QB.....unless..... JP is traded to Denver at the start of the season & performs so well that he quickly makes all Denver fans forget about Elway & he becomes so synonymous with Denver that the Broncos become known as 'JPs team'. Then, late into the season, the unthinkable happens. Buffalo trade the next 3 years of 1st round picks to Denver to regain the rights to JP. When later(in said playoff game) JP(playing for Buffalo but the Broncos still being thought of as 'JPs team') throws 7 INTs, it gets commented that "JP has his team up by 4 points with 7 seconds to go on the road in Denver..." whew...gotcha out of trouble with that prediction.

I'm surprised 1/3 of us think Bledsoe is going to have the best year. People don't really think T.O. will make that much of a difference do they? I just can't get past the comparison with his first year in Buffalo & his first in Dallas. Since I'm bored....here are the stats. BUFFALO 2002 16 GAMES COMP 375 ATT 610 YDS 4359 TD 24 INT 15 QBR 86.0 GAMES 1-8 COMP 203 ATT 318 YDS 2500 TD 16 INT 6 QBR 97.0 GAMES 9-16 COMP 172 ATT 292 YDS 1859 TD 8 INT 9 QBR 74.0 DALLAS 2005 16 GAMES COMP 300 ATT 499 YDS 3639 TD 23 INT 17 QBR 83.7 GAMES 1-8 COMP 156 ATT 244 YDS 2019 TD 13 INT 6 QBR 97.4 GAMES 9-16 COMP 144 ATT 255 YDS 1620 TD 10 INT 11 QBR 70.7 In reference to the Bledsoe trade, I believe it was the huge numbers he put up in the first half of his first year here which enabled PP to achieve his stats thus getting us WM. We traded a #1 pick for Bledsoe but because we had him, we got another #1 pick back.

I heard this too. Apparently all was working well until Mike Williams devoured his new mandatory wardrobe. Needless to say, his new teammates are a tad on the nervous side at the moment.

Based on your premise of "...in 2 years with the players you mentioned", my first reaction was yes he should be given some credit. I am a big believer in 'credit where credit is due'. However upon reading the other posts I feel I would have been a bit hasty with that opinion. Logically, at any given time, there will be talented players(& stars) on virtually every team. It is the ability to turn the 'average' team into 'well above average' that is the difficult part. TD did good & bad things & I fully agree with your coaches point but I feel the players he left us with are pretty much on the 'average' bracket in the league. Pretty much any other GM would have left Marv with a similar amount of usable talent on the roster. I'm hoping that Marv's choice of coach is far, far, far better than TDs & we play as a cohesive team with confidence & passion again.

Thanks for compiling the stats.... However(gee, you could just hear it coming ) I've always thought that using pure yardage is not very indicative of 'good passing teams'. If a team is rubbish & falls behind early(& often) in matches, it will be forced to pass(often against easy yardage gaining prevent defence) & overly inflate the passing stats(unless the passing game is terrible ala 2005 Bills). The same works conversely for good teams. They get ahead in matches & therefore will run the ball more, hence getting higher rushing numbers(putting more on the rushing column you showed) & lower passing number(dropping them off the second column)....(unless you are the colts) That being said, I still think a strong running game is more valuable to achieving SB success than a strong passing game.

Congrats!!! Sleepless nights ahead. Personally I don't think he is trying to piss others off. I've met (am related to unfortunately) others in my life who act/react in a similar way to LD. I'm pretty sure he is convinced of the importance of the message he is giving us. *This is bad form, talking about someone publicly but....hey, I never said I was perfect either * I liked your line about the pig....what a crack up. Good luck with the future baby.

I just don't get it. Last year we... a) had no O-line. b) had no passing game c) had no heart as a team d) had no WM on third down e) had generally bad play calling f) had a disheartened WM etc, & WM still managed to rack up some decent stats. If we fix up a few of these things this year, how could WM not have a stellar season? His attitude & character might effect things too much but...how many thought his attitude was so terrible after 2004? I see no reason why he cannot(with the right tutiledge) recapture the drive he had to have to fight through rehab & play with passion again. Honestly, there are far fewer questions concerning WMs ability to be a top level starter than any other skills position player on the roster. Where does the negativity come from?

AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH Just when you thought it was safe to get back into the water

I originally wanted to contribute here but I got distracted by parrots flying by. Anyway, now that the distractions are gone...... I hope Nance will eventually make it as an NFL WR but it does not seem likely to me. I can't help but think that if all 32 teams pass him by for every single draft pick &.... the windy, cold, lowly(predicted to be a loser this year), Bills who have an abundance of WRs with potential sign him, then most other teams were not vying for his services. My head keeps saying "If he chose to sign with Buffalo he could not have had many options available to him." My heart is still hoping though...

real translation: I am not eager to parrot your take on a player without some other information to back it up. Honestly I would think almost everyone would consider... "Just would like to see some stats to back-up your claim"... as a very polite way of questioning what someone else was saying. Kzoo (person #2) has seen Nance play 4 times in real life. It was your responses to these fairly innocent comments that was (& still is) aggressive & abusive. Why do we let ourselves be suckered into a pointless arguements???? (Read: why do I let myself....)