Orton's Arm

I don't know that I agree with you. Compare how well Buffalo's defense did this year, to how well Pittsburgh's defense has done. Well . . . nevermind.

Very well put. None of the subsequent posts in this thread have blamed JP for all our problems either.

Nobody here is throwing JP over any cliffs. We're just saying we need to be realistic about his chances of success.

Now you're just being silly.

This was Clements' first offensive coordinator position. I don't know that he had earned the right to tell Mularkey who should or shouldn't start at QB, especially with Losman's play as bad as it was. Also, I wouldn't exactly say Clements' playcalling was of such stellar quality that he was in a position to make those kinds of demands.

If Willis wants to trade away incentives for more guaranteed money, Marv should at least talk with him. But I don't feel Marv should be generous. Maybe for every $3 in incentives Willis gives up, he gets $1 in guaranteed money. Of course, the ratio would vary depending on how likely each incentive given up was to be earned.

I agree that what the Jets offered him was absolutely ridiculous. But if O'Donnell had been included in TD's Pittsburgh plans, his contract would have been extended before he hit free agency. Prior to the 2002 draft, the Bills had too many holes to fill them all in one year. If the quarterback of the future isn't there, you shouldn't give up a first round pick for a Band-Aid solution. Instead, you wait until next year when maybe things are different.

This may well be the longest post of yours I've ever seen. That's saying something! My point was that TD's past QB decisions have been poor, so his endorsement of Losman has little credibility. I'm saying we shouldn't rely on Losman being a good choice when TD's other choices have been poor. As I've stated earlier in this thread, I think the Bills should strongly consider drafting Cutler, while giving Losman 2006 to prove himself. I won't respond point-by-point to the rest of your post. I don't think anyone disputes that Bledsoe helped our team enormously in the first half of 2002, just as Mike Williams did a great deal of good in the second half of 2004. But you can provide a good half season of play and still be a wasted first round pick.

Now I've posted 16 times in this topic!

One thing I'd like to add about the TE position: it's hard for a guy like Euhus to prove himself a receiving threat when the playcalling always calls for him to stay back and block. Fix the offensive line, and you wouldn't have to always keep the TE back in to block. Guys like Euhus would have a chance to show one way or the other whether they could be true receiving threats in the NFL.

I'm pessimistic about Peters because of his insanely low Wonderlic score. I'm not a big fan of Teague at C, because he isn't strong enough. But Preston might be the answer there. Villarrial is getting on in years, but LaDairus has said good things about Geisinger. LaDairus has a good head on his shoulders, and seems to know what he's talking about. So that leaves three OL positions to fill: LT, LG, RT. Preston would be C, and Villarrial/Geisinger would be RG. I'd use the first round pick on Cutler (assuming he's franchise quality) then the next three picks on LT, RT, and LG. I wouldn't be afraid to use a second day pick on an OL either. I admit this plan leaves something to be desired at TE, but finding the right QB is a bigger win than finding the right TE. I also admit this wouldn't do much for the defense, but that need could be addressed in 2007.

Point taken. I'm not saying that the Bills should cut Losman this off-season. But neither should they blind themselves to the fact we may have drafted the next Kordell. If I was the Buffalo GM, I'd take a long, hard look at Cutler. Assuming I liked what I saw, I'd draft him. Having done so, I'd give Losman most or all of the 2006 season to prove himself worthy of being a starter. Let's say the Bills didn't draft Cutler, hoping that Losman would turn into something. Let's say that Losman failed, which I believe is the most likely outcome. At the end of 2006, the Bills would be up a creek without a paddle. Good QBs are rare, and there's a good chance the Bills wouldn't be able to find one of Cutler's quality in 2007. Even if they did, he wouldn't be able to contribute very much until 2008 or 2009.

Wrong. TD acquired a first round pick for Peerless, and he used that pick on McGahee. Bledsoe had nothing to do with this deal. Peerless-for-McGahee was probably TD's best move as GM, but it has nothing to do with his ability to evaluate a QB. Those first eight games of 2002 were a flash in the pan. Nothing more.

I know you guys want to believe that the Bills will be a good team very soon, and a big part of that is thinking good things about Losman. But there's a difference between what we'd like to be true, and what is true. I refuse to do mental gymnastics to see the world with rose colored glasses. Replacing O'Donnell with Stewart wasn't a good idea. Neither was sending New England a first round pick for their aging backup QB. I know you guys would like to think highly of TD's judgement about QBs, because that would bode well for Losman. But the results aren't there to back that up. Stewart lasted maybe two or three years with the Steelers before being sent away, and the same could be said of Bledsoe in Buffalo.

And this applies . . . how? I checked my most recent page of posts. I found the following: - Comments on how Losman will prove a bust. - Comments about why Jim Bates may have turned down the DC post. - Praise for Fairchild as offensive coordinator. - The suggestion that the Bills use all but one of their first-day picks in this year's draft on the OL. - Defense of Sam Wyche - Advice that the Bills focus on being good in 2007 not 2006 - Concern about Marv's ability to do well with X's and O's, and his ability to identify brilliant assistants. - A random remark about a long snapper - The comment that if men were trying to steal from Taylor, he would have been justified in displaying a weapon to discourage this. For you to portray me as obsessed with one particular topic shows you didn't do your homework.

So anyone who fails to see how brilliant and right your ideas are is an idiot. Gotcha.

I agree the first round is the best place to find a QB. That's why the fact that most teams didn't see Losman as first round material really worries me. You had Buffalo interested in him, and Green Bay. But Mike Sherman would later be stripped of GM duties, so maybe he wasn't a much better judge of QB talent than TD. If I was the Buffalo GM, I wouldn't have used a first round pick on an athletic QB who may or may not someday develop a pocket presence.

My point was about Losman, not RJ. But you probably already knew that.

Holcomb doesn't count as a major QB decision because he was an afterthought, a backup plan, an insurance policy, and a mentor. Bledsoe was long gone before Holcomb was signed. Which brings me to my next point. TD built Buffalo's defense mostly through free agency. Old age would catch up with this defense all too soon, but it was felt that at least 2005 would be an outstanding year for it. Some even talked about having one of the best defenses in NFL history. Given this win-now defense, did it really make sense to choose that particular time to hand the keys to the offense to the new guy? Especially when said first-year starter had been able to prove little in practice prior to that decision being made? Chalk this one up to yet another stroke of TD's brilliance when it comes to the position of QB. TD clearly thought Losman in his first year would have been at least close to what Bledsoe was last year. He was wrong about that, just as he was probably wrong about Losman's long term future in this league.

Kordell made it quite clear his only interest was in playing QB, not receiver. You don't draft a guy like that to play WR. Parcells gave up no draft picks whatsoever to get Bledsoe, while TD gave New England our first round pick. Parcells built a good line in Dallas, while TD failed to do this in Buffalo.

O'Donnell had intelligence and accuracy; Kordell had athleticism. To me this decision showed that TD placed too high a value on athleticism, and not enough on pocket passing. The downside with Bledsoe was several-fold. First, his QB rating in his last three years in NE hovered, IIRC, in the mid-70s. Not exactly what you're looking for. Not only did Bledsoe have the low rating, he took too long to read the field; making him vulnerable behind a poor offensive line. The third problem with Bledsoe was his age: he wasn't going to be useful to the Bills for a very long time. I'm not complaining about Losman's confidence. If I've seen his attitude compared to Jim Kelly's once, I've seen the comparison a hundred times. No, the problem with Losman is that he was better on the run than in the pocket. It's great to be able to roll out and make something happen on a broken play. But there are times when the quarterback has to drop back in the pocket and calmly pick the defense apart. The knock on Losman was that he couldn't do that. The Losman pick reminds me of TD's Kordell Stewart pick.

You certainly seem fascinated by the topic of Holcomb's private parts. Maybe it's envy.

How good was RJ's offensive line or his playcalling? Maybe we should build a real OL, then bring him back to see what he can do behind it.

TD's track record with major quarterback decisions: - Decision 1: Replace Neil O'Donnell with the more mobile Kordell Stewart. - Decision 2: Trade a first round pick for Bledsoe when nobody else thought he was worth that much. - Decision 3: Draft Losman when many or most league experts had serious misgivings about him. Losman has proven little or nothing on the field, so all we have to go on is TD's faith in him. That's not a reassuring thought.

When Marv talked about "win now" he hadn't had a chance to fully analyze the roster and its dearth of talent. Considering how important Jim Kelly was to all those Super Bowl appearances, Marv has to realize how critical a good QB is. If we don't have the long term answer at QB on the roster now--which may well be the case--I really think Marv has to look closely at whichever QBs are available, beginning with the very first round of the draft.