DC Mom
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Looking online, it appears that Shoop was OC for the Bears, not the Lions. Let's see if we can find a Bears Thanksgiving game.
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I call bull on this story. These are the final plays of the Lions in that game.
Detroit Lions at 06:561-10-DET 36
(6:56) J.Garcia pass to S.Bryson pushed ob at DET 45 for 9 yards (D.Williams). PENALTY on DET-R.DeMulling, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at DET 36 - No Play.
1-20-DET 26
(6:25) (Shotgun) J.Garcia pass incomplete to R.Williams.
2-20-DET 26
(6:20) (Shotgun) J.Garcia pass to M.Williams ran ob at DET 45 for 19 yards.
3-1-DET 45
(5:53) S.Bryson up the middle to DET 47 for 2 yards (D.Williams).
1-10-DET 47
(5:23) J.Garcia pass incomplete to M.Pollard.
2-10-DET 47
(5:18) (Shotgun) J.Garcia pass to R.Williams to ATL 33 for 20 yards (B.Scott; K.Carpenter).
1-10-ATL 33
(4:48) (No Huddle) J.Garcia pass to C.Rogers to ATL 29 for 4 yards (A.Rossum).
2-6-ATL 29
(4:18) (No Huddle) J.Garcia pass incomplete to M.Pollard.
3-6-ATL 29
(4:14) (Shotgun) J.Garcia right end to ATL 24 for 5 yards (B.Scott).
4-1-ATL 24
(3:29) J.Garcia pass incomplete to C.Schlesinger (P.Kerney).
Atlanta Falcons at 03:24
1-10-ATL 24
(3:24) T.Duckett left tackle to ATL 28 for 4 yards (N.Wayne).
Timeout #1 by DET at 03:16.
2-6-ATL 28
(3:16) M.Schaub right end to ATL 36 for 8 yards (J.DeVries).
1-10-ATL 36
(2:29) T.Duckett right tackle to ATL 40 for 4 yards (W.Rainer).
Timeout #2 by DET at 02:21.
2-6-ATL 40
(2:21) T.Duckett left tackle to ATL 42 for 2 yards (S.Rogers). FUMBLES (S.Rogers), RECOVERED by DET-J.DeVries at ATL 44. J.DeVries to ATL 44 for no gain (E.Beverly).
Detroit Lions at 02:14
1-10-ATL 44
(2:14) (Shotgun) D.Orlovsky pass incomplete to S.Bryson.
2-10-ATL 44
(2:06) D.Orlovsky pass incomplete to C.Fitzsimmons.
3-10-ATL 44
(2:03) D.Orlovsky pass to S.Vines pushed ob at ATL 30 for 14 yards (J.Webster).
Two-Minute Warning
1-10-ATL 30
(1:59) (Shotgun) D.Orlovsky pass to R.Williams to ATL 26 for 4 yards (D.Williams).
2-6-ATL 26
(1:33) (No Huddle) D.Orlovsky pass to M.Williams to ATL 19 for 7 yards (J.Webster; A.Rossum).
1-10-ATL 19
(1:08) (No Huddle) PENALTY on DET-D.Woody, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at ATL 19 - No Play.
1-15-ATL 24
(1:06) D.Orlovsky pass incomplete to C.Rogers.
2-15-ATL 24
(1:03) (Shotgun) D.Orlovsky pass incomplete to C.Rogers (J.Webster).
3-15-ATL 24
(:56) D.Orlovsky pass to S.Bryson to ATL 26 for -2 yards (K.Brooking; A.Rossum).
Timeout #3 by DET at 00:42.
4-17-ATL 26
(:42) (Shotgun) D.Orlovsky pass to M.Williams to ATL 6 for 20 yards (K.Carpenter). PENALTY on ATL-K.Carpenter, Defensive Delay of Game, 3 yards, enforced at ATL 6.
1-3-ATL 3
(:28) D.Orlovsky pass incomplete to C.Rogers (K.Carpenter).
2-3-ATL 3
(:25) D.Orlovsky pass incomplete to C.Fitzsimmons.
3-3-ATL 3
(:21) D.Orlovsky sacked at ATL 4 for -1 yards (R.Coleman). FUMBLES (R.Coleman), RECOVERED by ATL-D.Williams at ATL 6. D.Williams to ATL 6 for no gain (D.Orlovsky).
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2005112400/2...post-playbyplay
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Legendary QB battle on Versus now. UFL, of course.
Brooks never got a fair shot. He showed some flashes with the Jets.
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But they all really, really liked Jauron.
What do you mean?
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Is Hartgartner doing a bad job outside of those low snaps?
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1. Joe Montana
2. The 1984 Apple Ad
3. Goldie Hawn
4. Franchise Relocations in the 1990s
5. Prince
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Being paid millions a year to have a good time? It would be tough for me to walk away from that.
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Wouldn't ~3 years of work with a reputable firm after school pay pretty darn well, and put you a long way toward paying off your school debt? I realize you think you might be unhappy, but you are the one who chose to go to law school and take on these loans, and soon you will have a wife to consider when making all decisions. What is your wife's stance on school? Is she excited about her new family being saddled with debt, and nothing much to show for it?
The more I read in this thread, the more I think you need to finish. Two-thirds of a law degree equals jack schitt, other than many thousands of dollars racking up interest. Finish, then explore your options. You are teetering on the 'woe is me' line, and it sounds pretty weak. In this information age, you had to know exactly what law school would require (both at school and in the wallet), and you had to know the options that would be available for employment upon finishing. Armed with this information, you chose to pursue this endeavor just 1.5 years ago. What happened since then? You've decided your personality doesn't mesh with other law students? Please. Hell, that alone might make you a commodity.
I certainly know that I am whining about all this, and I certainly accept responsibility for my choices. I am depressed because I feel like I blew it. I don't know if this makes my decision to go to law school a good one or a bad one, but I spent a lot of time trying to research law school. I am not sure if I was doing it smartly, but I knew about the hard time balancing life with work when you are a lawyer, I know that a lot of lawyers are dissatisfied, etc. I knew that you don't go to law school unless you want to be a lawyer.
Yet, I had found the law so interesting in other contexts, aced the LSATs, thought it was the best chance for me to make something of myself and took the plunge. I figured I would know pretty early whether or not law school was the right choice.
The thing is that in my first semester, I was like why am I here, but I said to myself "you owe it to yourself to finish this semester." I did well, and then I was like hey, this isn't so hard and I went through the next semester. Then at times over the semester and especially that summer, I was like "I don't really like reading case after case, dealing with minutia, blah, blah..." I just couldn't see myself doing this as a career.
But I didn't want to quit after I had gotten through that year and I figured I had to see what job opportunities I could get during on-campus interviewing. Well, I got a summer job at a firm I thought was a great fit and I didn't think about quitting the rest of the semester, but then I was like, I don't like this stuff. Yeah, work sucks, but why do this kind of work that takes over your whole life? Why am I paying money to do this?
The truth is that my financial situation isn't that bad right now. I could leave with very limited debt. But in a year and a half can I say that?
And my future wife? She hates that everything is up in the air right now, but she would rather see me happy then be stuck in something I don't like.
So with all that why don't I drop out or take a leave now? Because I haven't had that real true practicing experience that would let me know for sure. I am worried that I will regret it. I think I will know after this summer at the firm. I may hate the firm lifestyle, but I could get some better exposure about the practice of law.
Basically my decision has come down to this:
1. On the one hand, I don't know what I want to do with the rest of my life and I cannot know for sure if I would have enjoyed law practice or not.
2. On the other hand, I don't feel like this career is right for me and what I know about what the practice is like doesn't appeal to me. I feel like however hard and crappy and a waste it would be to drop out now, if I don't... then I fear that inertia will carry me through for years doing something I don't like.
The last thing I quit was running for class president in high school. Nothing since. I have stuck with a lot of bad things just to see them through, but when do you cut your losses? I feel that my time in law school has been like chasing losses in the stock market.
I know that this is a self-absorbed, whiny post and thread. I should be a man and just make the call. I just don't know.
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And I guess it would give me piece of mind to know that I would face the same problems dropping out this past fall.
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How do you figure $80k in opportunity costs? Do you have a job that pays 80k that you can go to right now?
$80K in tuition and opportunity costs for the rest of the semester, next year, etc. This includes subtracting the higher pay I could get in my summer gig at the firm.
There's a fairly definite job that would pay $35K and bide me some time.
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Also, I am about to be married, which restrains my options. Continuing on means $80K in opportunity costs + tuition. I understand the quitter label, which may be a reality, but I wonder how much avoiding that label is worth.
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Really, I would not be so worried if it wasn't because there have been key points when I have been severely questioning my choice.
August 2005
February 2006
March 2006
July and August 2006
January 2007.
There have been times when I have been happy with my decision, but the frequency with my severe doubts and this being the worse, seems to be a bad sign. Still, I have not actually done a full-fledged practical experience, so... I am scared I will regret walking away before this summer.
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1. Apparently you have paid for this semester and it is too late to get a refund? If so finish this semester.
2. If you don't like law why would you take a summer job with a law firm? Tend bar in Miami Beach, paint houses and just get away from it all for a few months.
3. Regretting what you didn't do last year gets you nothing.
4. No matter how you cut it two years of law school means pretty much nothing. You either have a JD or you don't.
5. Consider taking the summer to look at options for a JD outside of the traditional practice of law. Work for an interesting government agency or political organization or church group.
6. Join the Peace Corps (Seriously a break might do you good and expand your horizons...easy to take a leave of absence and get some student loans forgiven.)
It sounds like the mid-course blues to me...just take it easy, finish the semester you paid for and make your decisions carefully. Best of luck.
I have two weeks to decide to withdraw, so it's still up in the air at some level. I feel that a summer at the firm will tell me for sure whether the practice of law is not for me. I haven't had true experience practicing... I have just had law related work during the semesters and my first summer. Also, the money will be pretty good.
My question is whether 1.5 years of law school looks worse on a resume than 2 years. I can take a leave of absence at either point.. but I have little time.
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I have a couple of follow-up questions that I hope someone here might answer.
Everyone tells me that I should try out my summer firm before I drop out and hopefully I will know for sure at the end of August. But by the time the summer is over, it will be 6 months or so later. Because of my financial and personal situation, I could not really afford to finish up that year. Would the full 2 years of law school on my resume make it more difficult than my current situation for me to get a job?
Also, if I had dropped out after my first year, would I have been in better shape? One of my problems is that I am regretting not quitting after this summer (did research work, hated it).
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Suck it up and get back to work. Retirement is a long way off.
I work hard. If I didn't, I wouldn't have the grades I have here (it certainly isn't about intelligence, I think). I have done a lot of crappy jobs in my young life. I actually enjoy manual labor in some level. At least at the end of the day, you feel like you have accomplished something, you can see your results (normally) and you don't have to feel guilty about having a beer and watching TV in the evening.
I am not really trying to defend myself. I wish it was about work ethic. Then I wouldn't worry so much about what I was doing.
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You sound like a liberal. Maybe you should get into politics. Whining is a good attribute for the Democrat party.!!!!
I know I am whining. But I can't stop thinking about something until I solve it.
And by the way, I am registered Republican for what it's worth. Not that I am enamored with the party or anything, but I suppose it's where my loyalties lie.
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My only question is, of which someone did ask and you did not provide a real answer, have you really taken some time to determine why you want to stop part way through?
Must be somethng bigger than don't like personalities, don't like details.
It's tough to quantify. Perhaps I am just focusing on the negatives, but I started to think about how I want balance in my life sooner rather than later and that when I look ahead the prospect of being a lawyer depresses me. It just doesn't feel like the kind of person I am. And it's never really been about the work. It's just that I have found no passion in it. I wonder what the point of it is. I just don't see the light at the end of the tunnel.
I like being creative and thinking up new ways to do things. The law feels so stifling as far as that goes.
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You ought to finish. It would look bad on a resume. BTW - Not every lawyer works 80+ hours a week. Just some of us!!
There are many different types of practicing law. You say you wanted to be a litigator, but wanted to spend all your time in court. Well what about becoming a District Attorney? Big court time, good work and experience, law is mostly settled (so not as much research), just a thought.
Depending on what type of work interests you, a law degree will only help. Yes, you can say you didn't want to practice, but the experience of law school taught me how to analyize and break down complex problems, applying the rules to the facts. This type of analysis is required in every industry.
Thanks for the advice. As far as litigation goes, I think you are confusing me with someone else. Because I am non-confrontational, I don't think litigation would work for me.
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You can complete law school and then not necessarily practice law...Sports agent, for example, is one career where a law degree is fairly prevalent. Businesses of all sizes have legal advisors which they employ, and consult on all aspects of purchasing, acquisitions, contracts, strategy, business banking, etc. A position like that might be more of a slant toward the corporate world while still using your wealth of legal knowledge.
Do you have an idea what you WANT to do, rather than just knowing that you DON'T want to be a lawyer? You must've at one time wanted to be a lawyer. How do you know you won't get sick of your new endeavor in 2 years?
I guess my priorities changed (wanting to have time with family) and I found that my personality does not mesh with law students or lawyers very well. I realized that while I find the theory and all that interesting, I have trouble with the nitty-gritty and small details. While being able to understand the theory and the generalities of the law has been great for law school finals and my GPA, I doubt it will mean good things for my career.
I only have a general outline about what I want to do instead. At times, I have considered high school teacher and trying to get into the business world.
I wish I did know what I WANT to do for sure instead. If I did, this decision would be far easier.
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Time to move on- I looked at the money I had left, figured out what I would need to get my certification and did the math.
As for my law school time. I just list that I was at Duquesne University Law School from 91-93 and don't list a degree. If they ask i tell them if they don't, I don't bring it up.
I think I decided that I just wasn't cut from the cloth of someone who could work 80 hours a week. I blame a short attention span and a love of talking. I wanted to be a litigator, but I think I failed to realize how little of my time would be spent in court and how much would be locked in a law library. It took law school for me to realize that my real skills were in presentation and teaching.
Did you do legal work before you made that decision?
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I left Law school in my third year and took the rest of my money and got a teaching certification. I had good grades (3.4 ish) was president of the Phi Alpha Delta law fraternity, but really started to feel I did not want to be a lawyer.
I will be paying my law school loans for at least another 10 years, but I got my certification, taught for a few years, moved out of education and now am the Director of Training and Support for a medium sized software company in Buffalo (and have been for the past 5 years.)
I have always put my law school experience (incomplete that it is) on my resume. When people ask, I tell them the truth. I realized I didn't want to be a lawyer and thought it best to move forward with what I wanted to do as quickly as possible.
School is just exercise for the brain. A degree is worthless without a good person behind it. I would hire an outstanding instructor with no degree over an over-educated bad one any day.
You'll be fine. If you we're smart enough to get into law school and are mature enough to know its not what you want to do, you'll have the smarts to work things out.
Also, how do you put your incomplete experience on your resume? And why did you not want to be a lawyer anymore?
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I left Law school in my third year and took the rest of my money and got a teaching certification. I had good grades (3.4 ish) was president of the Phi Alpha Delta law fraternity, but really started to feel I did not want to be a lawyer.
I will be paying my law school loans for at least another 10 years, but I got my certification, taught for a few years, moved out of education and now am the Director of Training and Support for a medium sized software company in Buffalo (and have been for the past 5 years.)
I have always put my law school experience (incomplete that it is) on my resume. When people ask, I tell them the truth. I realized I didn't want to be a lawyer and thought it best to move forward with what I wanted to do as quickly as possible.
School is just exercise for the brain. A degree is worthless without a good person behind it. I would hire an outstanding instructor with no degree over an over-educated bad one any day.
You'll be fine. If you we're smart enough to get into law school and are mature enough to know its not what you want to do, you'll have the smarts to work things out.
How did you know it was time to move on?
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You should finish law school. You will regret not finishing school years down the road, and while you think you're not interested in a career practicing law, you clearly went into law school with the idea that you would finish. You may change your mind after another year-and-a-half and the internship. You're freaking half way through, and the toughest year is already in the rear-view mirror.
I didn't find the first year that tough. It took a lot of time, but I took it day by day and all I had to focus on were studies.
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I don't no what you should do.
Ugh... I know there are a lot of typos, etc. I am just really out of it right now. My bad.
FSU-UNC Dick Jauron reference
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
It looks like the only Thanksgiving game where Jauron was head coach and Shoop was OC was 1999 against the Lions. Let's see if we can find the stats.