DFITZ1

I think Tony Hunter was traded to the LA Rams and did OK out there. I remember because a Rams fan at work used to come over and thank me for Tony Hunter to rub in each Bills loss in the mid-80's. BTW - this guy mysteriously disappeared in '88.

1. I think you're right, and as for how long it took, wasn't Simpson originally (and very wrongly) converted to WR when he got here? Ans: He wasn't converted but he was used a lot on pass plays out of the backfield because the OL was so horrendous. I don't think he lined up as WR much. You can argue over whether OJ or Thermal was the better RB, but as a receiver, definitely Thurman. 2. I think it's only Kelly. Ans. You might be right, I was just guessing. 3. No Saban? (I am not looking it up, and it was before I was born. Thought the guy had a winning record.) No Jauron? (kidding.) Ans: I believe Saban had a winning record in Buffalo, but a losing record in Denver and Boston (he was the Pats very first HC), and that may have brought his record under .500. 4. Just a note, on second first round picks: Kelly was one. Who was first (and no looking it up!)? Ans. Tony Hunter (I remember, I hope, from looking up the others). Also, one poster corrected my answer that Eric Wood was also a 1st rounder. I was in too much shock that Stew Barber was a first rounder. Thank you. I stand corrected. I certainly hope that pick is as good as most of the other 1st round OL picks.

1. Which noted Bills RB took 4 seasons to run for >1000 yds and >4.1 YPC? Ans. OJ Simpson. This was painfully easy as I remember the horrendous first 3 years. OJ's rise in year 4 is a case history of why OL's are vital to success, and OJ was very vocal about touting the success of the Electric Co during his career here. Too bad he can only tout it in Nevada now. 2. Which Bills QBs of the last 30 years have career stats of more than 1 INT per game? Ans: I can only give notables, but my guess is Kelly (he really added to that stat his last 2 seasons), and Flutie. However, int's didn't bring these guys down. I'm sure there are more but I don't have the stats. 3. Which Bills head coaches have career winning records as head coach? Ans: I assume you mean AFL/NFL. Chuck Knox, Marv Levy, Wade Philips 4. How many times have the Bills taken an OLman in the 1st round of the draft? Ans: 7 (OK, I looked it up). 1961-Stew Barber, 1973 - Joe DeLameillure (although he was our second #1), 1980 - Jim Ritcher, 1986 - Wil Wolford (like joe d, actually the 2nd #1 pick), 1992 - John Fina, 1995 - Ruben Brown, 2002 - Mike Williams. Surprisingly, only Williams was a dud. All the others started for several years. What's interesting is the 2 best (certainly Joe D) on this list were our second first round picks.

It most certainly is. However, many thought that when Bill Polian first brought up the idea of trading for Cornelius Bennett in '87 was outlandish. In time, the deal got worked out (trading TE Tony Hunter and a couple high round draft choices in a 3-way deal between the Bills-Rams-Colts) and a critical need at LB got filled (with a untested player) and the next year Bills go to the AFC Championship. I don't mean trade Spiller for whatever you can get. That is crazy. But filling big gaps in talent may need big deals IF they can be made (that's what differentiates Polian from Donahoe), and if one can be put together, it may be the ticket out of mediocrity. If a deal isn't there, forget it.

Thank you - if Obama can do it, so can I! However, that does not mean I agree with Obama all the time.

YM - I have never called myself a GM. My idea was nothing more than a brainstorm to get a "player of the future" at a critical need position. Trading a "player of the future" at a lower need position is one possible way. If such a deal doesn't arise, then you don't make the deal. I never meant to trade Spiller outright. BTW - brainstorming is a well-known technique for developing innovative solutions to difficult problems. Often, the initial idea is outlandish, but is built upon to formulate the final solution which can more innovative and more effective than following conventional techniques. Heck, Bill Polian's idea to get Cornelius Bennett was first considered outlandish and nuts, but was built upon, a final solution (a 3-way trade) was executed and a critical need was filled that led to the playoffs the following year. It was done by trading Tony Hunter who was a good TE who continued with a good career in LA, but the Bills filled the TE position easily, by getting Bennett, became a powerhouse.

NYC Bill - I've been expousing the build the line mantra for years. Bills history clearly shows it. The 64-65 teams had HOF'r Shaw and Bemiller among others (I watched a replay of Cookie Gilchrist on a sweep in the '64 Championship game and Shaw went stride for stride 20-30 yards downfield with Gilchrist and kept the lane open), the classic case is the Electric Co saving OJ's career, Chuck Knox revamped the OL by the 1980 season where Joe Cribbs was became the franchise RB ('til he defected) and had the likes of Conrad Dobler to harass tacklers, and the OL for Kelly/Thomas/Reed was largely in place by '88. Since the mid 90's efforts to build a OL of the early 90's calibre have been weak. I also agree that my original post needed better stating. It was mainly a brainstorming of how to address our critical needs. It wasn't meant as a dump Spiller move, rather a trade one "player of the future" for an equal (or better) "player of the future" at a more critical need. My guess is that many who flamed my OP equally more more flamed the pick for Spiller. But that's life on a message board. Thank you for generating meaningful discussion, rather than flames.

Zu man: The trenches have 2 sides. Yes, I am aware that drafting Wood and Levitre helped; however, that got cancelled by downgrading the tackles (at least at the start of this year - play has shown improvement). However, on the d side, the rebuilding fell behind and DE and LB were clearly critical needs at the 2010 draft. Also - it may not have been clear, but my original intent was to get a trade where we traded a "player of the future at RB for a player of the future at a more critical need. It's nothing more than a brainstorming idea. If a good deal is out there perhaps it can be taken, if not then we don't make the deal, that simple. I did not insinuate we just get rid of Spiller for whatever we could get. Even I agree that would be crazy (just like the paid OBD guys who ignored critical needs throughout the 20-aughts).

Yes I do watch the Bills and their pass rush is pathetic. NT is better with Williams, but DE is mediocre. The LB corp isn't that impressive (like you said). Kelsey has been pushed around like a rag doll more than once. Please keep in mind the last 2 games have been against 2 bad teams, and the Bungles have essentially laid down and died. As for the other positions, Sunday's game and the last 3 games will tell what areas remain critical. OK, trading Spiller is crazy, but I'm tired of watching this team ignore critical areas of need in drafts year after year and waste talent. The 2 areas you mention (LB and TE) are noteworthy. Maybe if we had better luck with FA's we wouldn't have so many weak spots.

What's crazy? It's drafting "feature" RB's and not building an o-line. A feature back without blocking is a mediocre back. Hopefully this next off-season will address that and other "trench" positions. That was the point of my first post, outlandish or not. We can draft all the feature skill players we want but if the "trench" positions aren't addressed, this team will keep spinning its wheels in the mud of mediocrity. I'd say we'd be the LA Clippers of the NFL, but that's an insult to the Buffalo Braves teams that made the playoffs in the 70's.

You can take that back to Lou Saban. The Electric Company is a classic example of how building an o-line can turn a team around (too bad they didn't have the same luck on the defensive side back then).

That's what I've been talking about for 10 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Before someone has a cow - the Bills draft finally addressed the o-line with Wood/Levitre. That bolstered the interior, but they let the tackles deteriorate, so it was a wash.

You found out how smart this group is. They were more concerned about spelling than answering your question. BTW - the answer is winning. It's what they're paid to do. Jocking for a better draft position only purveys a losing attitude. Also - look at all our 3-7 round draft picks and UFA's outperforming our #1's and #2's (ex. Steve Johnson vs James Hardy).

Didn't Miami go to the playoffs with Parcells? So you would not want Parcells in the Bills organization. Go ahead, keep drafting your Lynch's, Losman's, Magahee's, and so forth without the quality lineman and stay in sub-mediocrity. Are you saying Atalanta's O-line sucks?

Foolish? - you want to know what I think is foolish? It's listening to the news media and posters on TSW act like the enlightened ones declaring that OBD has failed to rebuild the o-lines and d-lines; yet, I've been saying that FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS, and only now these "experts" divine what I've said for the last 10. I'm dumb?, I'm foolish? Bull#$^%!!! Dumb and foolish is drafting TWO RB's in round 1 the last 10 years and then trading them for peanuts after they didn't pan out BECAUSE THE O-LINE COULDN'T OPEN ANY HOLES. Add to that, the only 1st rounder for a lineman was a bust! The 2 o-linemen signed by Levy as FA's were CUT!! Not to mention the one LT that we developed we traded for essentially nothing (Jason Peters, who at his worst is better than what the LT's we were left with. And I haven't even touched the D-line or LB's. Did I suggest we let Pat Williams walk? No! Our run defense has never been the same since. I could go on and on. So my idea might be crazy or out of the box, but I can rest easy knowing those who were PAID to make the right choices consistently made the wrong ones, and more often than not, I saw it coming. I've always said football games are won and lost in the trenches and have been proven right over and over again. If we keep drafting/signing high for skill positions and going cheap for "trench" positions, your best bet for watching a Bills winning season will be in the CFL (no offence Canada).

Same stuff OBD and RW have been smokin' for the last 10 years and they're paid to build a team. Not to forget Modrak since he spends most of his time down south. I really don't care. Go back to your barstool.

You need a hobby other than Buffalo Bills football. You can't live your life vicariously thru the Bills. Life's too short.

Enjoy!

You build a team in the trenches. That's how Parcells does it. And in Bills history, it wasn't until Lou Saban brought in solid lineman that OJ went from wash out to all-pro. Actually, the writer was Sal Maiorana(sp) who continues to question the Spiller pick. Hey - I like Spiller, but there were more important needs, and RB could've waited. I won't take any offens©e. However, after watching this team front office follies for the last 10 years, I can always take consolation that my dumb ideas are better than they're smart ideas (I'm talking mainly pre-Nix, he hasn't been around long enough, but I hope he's more right than I'll ever be).

First, unless you post nonsense (or wild ideas), you get little response from this forum so what's the use in posting something logical? Also, are you saying we need a losing year? I think we need better talent scouts. Teams are doing better drafting in 3 and 4th rounds than the Bills in rounds 1 & 2 (the Pats drafted some decent TE's in rounds 3 and/or 4, and we haven't had a credible TE since Riemersma). Hey, if no team is going to give anything good for Spiller, then don't take the deal. As for my post being nonsense, it's less nonsensical than the drafts and player moves I've seen from the PAID front office experts.

Hey - I'm NOT the gm! And if you're so smart, why aren't you. I just presented a possible option to improve this dreary team. I have more important things to do in my life than examine each and every team for possible player trade, especially since I can't make the trade anyway. You may want to call me names, but after seeing the numerous high impact players the Bills have passed on in drafts over the years, I sure hope you're calling Modrak, Donahoe, Levy (though a great coach) and others who are highly paid to do what we just post about, names that are far worse.

They may not be HC material, but teams might want to line up to have them as coordinators. As one poster said, Williams D-coached a super bowl winning team. The jump to HC is often the hardest. Wade Philips is a great example. His defenses were usually top echelon in the league, but as a HC he was only good for 2-3 years. In Bills history, one our best DC's was joel Collier who DC'd the 64-65 AFL Champs. As HC he had one good year, then tumbled and got fired in '68. He went on to Denver where he put together the Orange Crush defense which elevated the Broncos to the top of the NFL and their first SB appearance. Dooshing these guys is just ignorant.

Check the post, a draft choice is just one option. The other (and I will admit more viable) option is a player for player swap. That would be the best chance to get equal value, just at another position. Player for player swaps are rare nowadays. Frankly, the Bills should wish I was GM long ago. I've wanted more draft picks in the trenches (DL or OL) for the last 10 years, and only now the "experts" (media, that is) have recognized what I've said all along that this game is won and lost in the trenches. On offense, we're better off, but need tackle and TE upgrades. On defense, Williams is the only consistent performer (and if I were GM, I would not give Kelsey 6M/yr, nor would I have had Pat Williams walk), so we need one or 2 DE's plus LB help. The only "glut" of talent we have is RB. If that can be turned into an upgrade in one these positions, it might work out. The Lynch trade does prove the point many posters made that Spiller hasn't established enough value to warrant a trade for a high draft pick, unless we find a team more desparate than we are for immediate talent. I might not even want me as gm, but TD and Levy made moves that even I knew weren't going to help. I hoped I was wrong, but wasn't.

I thought drafting an RB was madness.

A Rochester D&C article alluded that Nix/Gailey drafted Spiller because they didn't realize how good Fred Jackson is (I presume they knew Lynch was going to go). Assuming we have more need positions than draft or FA signings can fill, would it make sense to trade Spiller? Naturally, it would have to be the right deal, but considering we need a DT, OT, LB, TE, QB (franchise, that is), it might be a viable option. If we could get a #1 or #2 pick, or perhaps a player for player swap for one of the need positions, it might get us one step closer to playoffs in 2011. Trading for a quality TE would help the offense immensely.