Beck Water

Shakir did lay down a 4.43 40 time, which is pretty much the same as Diggs 4.46. The difference for deep routes, IMHO, is that Shakir has those little 29" Tyrannasaurus Rex arms vs. Diggs 31" arms and 10" hands. The better to hold you off with, my dear. 2" makes a difference when you're going deep (That's What She Said). Beane's "sell" when we signed Harty was that he can track the ball on deep routes (McKenzie just couldn't track it very well) and has a complete route tree. He's in the same speed range as Shakir and Diggs, but has even shorter arms than Shakir. Maybe because he's only 5'6", the DB will struggle to reach down that far? I keep asking whether Harty is getting open on his 10-15 snaps per game? I hear he's our new "gadget guy" but I haven't seen him running those jet sweeps and reverses, and he looks slow when he's running routes - possibly because he's getting mugged by the DBs. Anyway, they have "enough speed to threaten the entire defense", what they don't have is the superior deceptive and smooth route running that Diggs has, and the upper body arm length and strength to hold off hand-fighting DBs. As far as size, keep in mind the Bills drafted Shorter in the 5th because of his 6'4" height and 33 3/4" arms (combined with a 35+" vertical and then doubled down by picking up Tyrell Shavers (another 6'4" guy) as an UDFA. The hope is that one of them develops into that "big guy" for us I do expect us to make 2 moves at WR next season - trying to sign a better FA, and trying to draft higher. I was kind of grumpy about the Bills drafting Dorian Williams in the 3rd instead of a WR - Michael Wilson was there? but as it's turned out, might be just as well.

Does anyone else here that old Santana song playing when they watch Dalton Kincaid run routes? He is sooooooo smooth. Yeah? Who do we dump?

One of the responses: 😂 I love it! Well played! Isabella with a little hip action there

This is a really good question. For some context, in 2019, the Bills #2 in yards and targets was Cole Beasley, with 106 targets for 778 yards 8.4 Y/R, 34 1D 2020, Beasley again, 107 targets for 967 yards 11.8 Y/R, 58 1D 2021, Beasley 112 receptions, 693 yds, but less Y/R 7.8, and fewer 1D 34 I take some flak for this, but I feel (and Chris Simms seems to agree) that what the Bills offense needs is a reliable outlet on short and intermediate routes, who is almost always open and can get those 1Ds and keep the chains moving. So on that question, is 600-800 yds a year enough? it depends on the yards. If it's 6-8 yds consistently on 2nd and 10 to put us in 3rd and short, or 5 yards on 3rd and 4 to get the 1D - it's probably enough. If we have that AND the 900-ish yards Davis is on pace to generate, that will probably be enough.

The best WR can run all the routes and are flexible in roles, at least to some extent. Jefferson had a monster season last year because the Vikes were using him all over the field. Diggs is getting a large target share this season in part because the Bills are using him all over the field - in the slot, on short option routes, deep, on screens (i would have to say perhaps, following his blockers is not Diggs best skill) etc. So when McDermott stands up and says in a presser, something to the effect that we have to know what players do best and put them in that position, on the one hand, he's right. If following blockers isn't Diggs thing but Sherfield can do it, maybe don't use Diggs on screens. Design for a player's strengths. On the other hand, he's being a scootch disingenuous. As a DC, McDermott knows well that if you've got a player who has a limited route vocabulary and is only likely to be targeted on, say, 2 of those routes, it's called "making my job easier". I wish all-22 was fixed in the US so I could go through it play by play or that I could get my hands on the Euro version (if anyone knows how, hit me), because when I try to go off my impression from memory of TV broadcasts, I can be flat out wrong. But my impression is that Dorsey does have (or at least started out the season) having Davis trying to run some shorter routes, curls and comebacks and slants and digs - and Davis just does not get open reliably on those. He lacks that sudden quickness and deception that Diggs has. And it's my impression that Allen and Davis have become a bit too predictable, there's too much film of certain route combinations and game situations where Allen will throw to Davis regardless - and guys in coverage know it and are prepared to jump those routes, resulting in picks or deflections. Anyway, there's some truth to saying that players have roles on teams, but there's also some truth that professional NFL receivers need to be able to do more than one or two things or they will get "solved". McKenzie's gadget reverses and jet sweeps became less effective as 2019 went on because DCs would see him and say "we know what's coming". So the Bills started using him on slants and shallow crossers and flats, and that helped make the gadget plays more effective again.

Well...No Although they're different. At least one is a football take, albeit a wrong-headed one to anyone who has watched both guys play The other just seems ugly - venomous and spiteful as well as not matching this season's performance so far for Gabe

No

As opposed to the games where Josh ignores "what the defense gives him" in favor of an overthrown moon shot (because he's extending the play and off platform) resulting in a 3 and out, or tries to force a ball into Stef or Davis resulting in a turnover? The thing is, the Bills have done those long drives on essentially half of our TDs to date. And they've cut drives short on those impatient "must get chunk plays!" interceptions or off-target deep shots, more often than not. Dink and dunk. Make them stop us, don't stop ourselves. I hope we go run heavy game plan, not because of some Sar Chasm but because we should take the load off Allen's shoulder and give it a chance to heal.

McDermott hopes Ed will practice tomorrow and play on Sunday Says similar about Josh: I don't remember what they said about Josh's non-throwing shoulder injury which hampered him for 5 games in 2020.

I'm having trouble parsing this sentence. Could you try to break it up into smaller pieces and say it differently?

This is the sort of idiotic take that makes me question why I hang here.

Josh Allen is on record saying "he needs a little contact" and "he likes to get hit sometimes. it makes him feel alive".

This. Furthermore, Bill B hasn't entirely had a brain transplant. He understands that we're depleted on defense and depending upon a rookie and a 1st year starter at LB, as well as relatively inexperienced CBs and lesser DTs. He will be scheming to deceive and take advantage of these players. There's a chance of anything, but I would expect it to be a few plays. 2 last week, one of which didn't go so well. Maybe 4 or 6? I wish we hadn't lost Ankou to the Falcons

It's been said before, but it's actually incorrect that Josh "typically gets hurt from the pocket". He's had two injuries in the pocket that I can think of. Outside the pocket, it's a split between injuries on running plays and trying to extend the play (and to be fair that can be a distinction without a difference, since he'll be looking to pass until he decides to take off) but he's had 3 or 4 injuries outside the pocket. First of all, going back to college, Josh shattered his shoulder, requiring surgery and a lost season, on a running play. He also broke his clavicle in HS on a run play. I say that not to dredge up old history, but when a guy has multiple injuries in the same area it does become a concern. 2018 Josh missed 4 games with a UCL injury to his right elbow, sustained in the pocket. 2019 Josh sustained a concussion on a running play vs. the Pats. Way outside the pocket. 2020 Josh sustained a shoulder injury to his L shoulder Week 4, extending the play outside the pocket to the L. He played 2 or 3 games in a linebacker brace before switching to tape for another couple of games. By the 5th week, he was fine. [2020 There was also concern when Josh was corkscrewed to the ground by Bosa vs. SF outside the pocket to the R while trying to break a tackle and run; looked like a knee injury, but "Josh Allen is Gumby", he escaped.] 2021 Josh sustained a turf toe injury while running out of bounds, way outside the pocket. Injury report, but "Josh Allen is Gumby" saved him again. 2022 UCL tear again vs the Jets, in the pocket as I recall. No time lost but Josh admitted after the season that it did affect his throwing motion. Those are the ones we know about, of course there are bumps and bruises and contusions and strains and sprains that go unreported. But I make that 2 injuries in the pocket, and 3 [or 4] outside.

The Patriots have become a severely banged up time since those 1 score games...you mean like, last week's game against the Raiders which they lost by 4 points? And one could say the same about the Bills ...they've become a severely banged up team since they had those strong wins earlier in the season. The Bills should have had no trouble at all with the Giants, and yet. Settle and Ford played 25% of the snaps each at 1T last week. Why is that, if they can get'er done against a team that is literally last in the league in scoring, 28th in passing, and 19th for rush yards? The Bills can and should beat the Patriots, but make no mistake...it's going to be a much harder slog if there isn't strong pressure and run defense up the middle. Bill Belicheck is aware that we have two inexperienced linebackers, and he will be doing his best to fool them.

Yeah, I don't buy it. First of all, if Belicheck were seriously going to switch QB to Malik Cunningham or give him a significant role, why would he advertise it in the press? Keep it quiet and show it on the field. "Surprise is the essence of attack" Second, Cunningham had what, 2 snaps in the Raiders game? On one of them he took a 5 yd sack. The Cover1 Disguised Coverage show has Patriots guy Taylor Kyles talking about this, starting at 12:27 if the link doesn't take you there. Taylor (Pats guy) says "he's been primarily trained as a receiver, and getting packaged as a QB. He showed promising flashes in preseason, but literally just end of game flashes. If you think it's bad with Mac, imagine how it's going to look with Malik Cunningham who has no chemistry with the people on the field and is still learning the offense, out there for an entire game against NFL defenses. He got two opportunities at QB last week, a zone read and an RPO...maybe he was not processing things quickly enough, there was a well timed blitz...Malik is very talented, but to expect him to play any significant snaps at QB no matter who the emergency QB is, it's just not going to happen because Mac is just far and away the best QB on this roster." I think it's distraction, designed to send Bills defensive assistants scurrying for the Louisville tape and wasting their time there.

You know, this reminds me of when I was starting to fly all over the country as a private pilot, and I was a bit intimidated by the idea of a 1200, 1400, 2000 mile flight. I asked an experienced mentor how to do it, and he kind of looked at me as though I had beets for brains: "you just plan it as a series of 500 mile flights" There's more to it, of course - you're liable to cross more weather systems, and encounter more varied density altitudes. But fundamentally, he was right. What's my point? I dunno about a "precision offense", but the Bills absolutely do have enough offense to sustain scoring drives of 9-11 plays that go 75 yds or more. And in fact, that's pretty much what they've done when they've scored successfully, so it's what they need to make up their mind to do right now. Just take it one set of downs at a time. The only way we're going to force teams to give us the intermediate and deep throws is if we commit to that and show patience. And in fact - most of the time when we've scored, that's exactly what we've done. The Bills have scored 20 TD so far this season, and 9 of them have been long, methodical drives of 9-17 plays driving 75 yds or more. One was 75 yard in 8 plays, one was 64 yds in 9 plays. Of the others, only 2 have been quick strike length of the field in 4-5 plays drives; the others were off turnovers and some of those drives took a lot of plays to move the ball from from near midfield. Just plan it as a series of 10 yard chunks. As far as Josh "running more and not getting hit more", Josh isn't Mahomes. When he runs, he gets lathered up and craves contact. I think the Bills coaches got tired of saying to him "run but don't get hit, use your legs when you need to then slide or go OOB" . They've been saying that to him for 5 years now and Josh has been hearing "run blahblahJosh use your legs blahblahJosh". This season, he would maybe run out of bounds and slide a couple times, then start barreling into guys. So I think they finally said "listen, if you can't run nicely for a QB, don't run." Of course, then we see him body-checking LB in the endzone after the play so...

Two. Patriots have been spanked in 2 games - Cowboys and Saints. And yes, as you might expect, those games featured a lot of rush yards given up. The Patriots other 4 games have been 1 TD games. They gave up a lot of rush yards to the Dolphins though, as though they were saying "you're not gonna beat us slinging it". This may not be what you mean, but it sounds as though you're saying the Bills absolutely shouldn't lose to the Pats Again, 3 of the Pats losses have been one-score games, including Miami. The Bills better have a sound DL in the middle, and with Da'Quan Jones out they're already thin. They coped last week by playing Ed at 1TDT.

I don't remember details, but, he definitely had the ball towards the field instead of towards the sideline as running backs (and receivers who RAC) are trained to do.

You're asking a great question IMHO Flip it. What does #2 mean? I listened to this again this morning and caught this: "they have to be a little bit stubborn and patient in the running game, or they have to have a, more intricate..more plays in the short passing game" It sounds to me like what Chris Simms means is, the Bills no longer have a slot receiver that other teams fear, and scheme to take away OR That Gabe Davis lacks the NFL-level route running skills to move all around and run all the routes, like (say) Manny Sands could

LOL. Well, we didn't see him "mic'd up" if I recall.....or at the podium much for that matter. Two stories. 2021, Milano just signed a new contract. He said in an on field interview that he was trying to become more vocal on the field. (I swear I'm not making this up). The reporter asked "How do you become more vocal?" Milano: "You talk more." 2022, Hyde giving one of those puff-piece interviews Buffalo Bills PR puts out. He was asked who is the biggest trash talker on the team? "Matt Milano" Reporter reacted like Hyde was joking. Nope, Hyde was serious. He explained that if someone (Hyde for example) made the wrong call in practice, Milano would give him endless ***** about it.

You'd have to ask Simms exactly what he means by that "too reliant on Diggs" thing. Right now, Tyreek Hill has 59 targets and 814 yds for the Fins. Waddle is trailing him with 35 targets and 296 yds. Does that mean the Fins are "too reliant on Hill"? I think it means Hill is their best receiver and is very difficult to shut down in the way they're using him. While I stand by it that "#2 WR" has become the new "Franchise QB" around here, I do understand Simm's point. Gabe racks up yards because he's used deep on lower percentage throws. He doesn't seem to have the route-running chops and full route tree of a receiver like Waddle, who has been a #1 receiver in his time and who can happily take over the game and put up yards, if a team sets out to throttle down Hill. I don't think any of us see Gabe as able to do that. *** I think that last is correct, as is the "consistently" part. Different teams fill needs in different ways, but again, it's a fact that the consistent chain mover as well as the #2 guy for targets and yards was Beasley, from 2019-2021. ***Edit: Davis has certainly taken over a handful of games - notably 1 playoff game per season (2020 Colts, 2021 KC, 2022 MIA). He's also had a couple of 100 yd games, most recently 8 targets, 6 receptions against Jacksonville; 6 receptions for 93 yds against Minnesota in 2020; couple of 5 reception games against Tampa and Carolina in 2021. Just to give the man his propers. But those are like 4 games in 3 years.

#2 WR has become this decade's "Franchise QB". Remember when we used to have heated debates here about who was or was not a franchise QB on other teams? What it usually came down to, is different people had different ideas of what "franchise QB" meant, and for a sizeable proportion it meant "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it". The relevant question for anyone wishing to debate this issue is "What exactly do you mean by #2 WR? How do you define that? What traits does this #2 guy have?" After that's defined, then we can have a discussion. Fact: from 2019 to 2021, the Bills #2 receiver in targets and in yards, was Cole Beasley, a slot.

Do we love Chris Simms again, now that he agrees with what seems like a vast majority of the people posting here? He's not wrong that the passing offense has looked far too reliant on Stefon Diggs On the other hand....the Bills are a whopping 5 yards off from being a top-10 rushing team (currently 12th), WITHOUT as much contribution from Josh Allen's legs at this time (and most of his contribution did come in the first 3 games) Right now, Mahomes has more rush attempts and more rush yards than Allen....they are right next to the Bills for rushing yards. I will grant that they seem to be utilizing 2nd round rookie Rashee Rice more and relying on Kelce a bit less in the passing game. But again, similar rush yards - Mahomes more rush yards than Allen - what does Chris Simms say about the Chiefs, are they too reliant on Mahomes? AJ Brown has 60 targets and 672 yds, Devonta Smith 44 targets and 344 yards, while Hurts of course has 30% of the teams rush attempts and close to 30% of their rush yards....does that mean the Eagles are too reliant on Jalen Hurts and AJ Brown? (for context, Diggs 66 receptions 620 yds, Davis 30 targets 341 yds)